Why do europeans/North americans have such disregard for their own culture compared to others.

I'm not sure if this happens to quite the same extant in the US but it certainly happens in most of europe (apart from the netherlands it now seems).

How come when europeans say they want to preserve their culture, and that immigrants should adapt to our way of life (if they come at all) they are often shot down as 'racists' why do they care about others more than themselves?

You wouldn't hear many saudis saying "you're racist for opposing the building of that church/synagouge". I'm not saying they should sacrafice their culture to bow down to christians, but why do europeans do it?

Just a little supplementary video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-3X5hIFXYU

The US for the most part is just a big mixed culture any way. Did you know that English isn't even the official language of the US(we don't have one)?

I would say most of it stems from people trying to be political correct and tip toeing around the issue. Most people probably do care, they just don't want to hurt any one, so they don't say anything.

Indeed it is, but canada then? Actually it's not even the official language here either, so technically Welsh is the only official language of the UK :P

So they'd rather their culture disolve than try to stop the disolving :?

Well for one, people don't think that far ahead. So they probably don't even realize it. Secondly, I wouldn't say their culture is dissolving. Just because there is more people from a different culture than from your own, doesn't make your culture any less important.

People were once worried of over population of the earth, but if you look at trends the entire birthrate across the entire planet has been dropping. Eventually it should stabilize and even out.

The video is basically nonsense, as anybody who lived in Europe could tell you. The facts are either totally wrong or huge distortions. I found a good page about it here:

http://islamineurope.blogspot.com/20...s-fiction.html

Do you really need me to point out to you what this kind of propaganda about an ethnic minority subverting a national culture leads to?

Besides, we already traded in most our culture for snickers and fruit loops.

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Originally Posted by Alric

People were once worried of over population of the earth, but if you look at trends the entire birthrate across the entire planet has been dropping. Eventually it should stabilize and even out.

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Source needed. This is contradictory to what I have read.

[QUOTE=Xei;1444448]The video is basically nonsense, as anybody who lived in Europe could tell you. The facts are either totally wrong or huge distortions.
QUOTE]

As someone who does live in europe, I can say it's not nonsense, admittedly I noticed one or two distortions but the general message is true. I'm not sure if you've ever stepped out of cambridge, but if you had then you should know, ever been to bradford? birmingham? leicester? London? Even small towns have a large noticable muslim population.

Muslim populations tend to be far more concentrated in urban areas.

I don't reside in Cambridge permanently, I just study here. In my year of around 150 (bearing in mind this draws from everybody from all over the country) I think there's 3 muslims.

It was roughly the same at my school.

In my village which must have a population of 300 or so there isn't a single muslim.

Nationally they're at about 3%. Compare that to the 50% or so of Christians and it should be pretty clear that this whole thing is ridiculous.

Immigrants as a general rule settle down to follow the demographics of the country. Maybe in some parts of Africa muslim families have 14 children on average, but in France? Are you kidding me? And the relevant statistic to the UK about the numbers increasing 30-fold over the last 30 years was also a complete fabrication.

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Originally Posted by Thatperson

Indeed it is, but canada then?

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In Canada, we have two official languages. English and French. I'm not entirely sure if you have to display a rudimentary grasp of English to earn citizenship. You do not need to know french outside of Quebec, however it is mandatory that all products be packaged with a french side and an english side.

A friend of mine was telling me about when she and her boyfriend were in Paris. Her boyfriend said something about not being able to tell what this product was because it was french. My friend absent-mindedly replied, "Just flip it over for the English side!"

In terms of culture, Canada is a bit weird. We're a very westernized country. Our culture is also westernized as a result. However, in British Columbia and parts of Alberta, there is a very strong First Nations culture, and they do everything they can to protect it.

Alberta likes to promote it's cowboy/farming culture (even hosts a 10-day festival called the Stampede, here in Calgary).

In Quebec they are very proud of their French-Canadian heritage. I'd say that out of anywhere in Canada, they do the best and preserving and promoting their culture. And it's fantastic! I've never been to Montreal yet, but I'm itching to go! I just want to learn a bit more french first :)

Other than that, the "Martime" provinces (that border the Atlantic ocean) have a very folk/celtic culture, although it's no where near as strong as you would find in Wales/Ireland/Scotland.

nationaly there were at 3% in 2001, the 2011 census should tell an interesting story, even that didn't include people who didn't state their religion, or those who claimed no religion but who are culturally muslim.

In my old school it was about 15% and this area isn't even one of the well known hotspots such as birmingham, leeds, bradford, manchester, leicester or Barking&Dagenham. Even if those statistics were flawed, immigrants and immigrant decendants certainly don't fall quite to the native birth rate levels. given that in the UK 1/4 of births are to foreign born mothers when 1/10 of women are foreign born just shows their higer birth rate. Even if not by a massive amount, that growth build up over time. where 10% of people produce 25% of the population for the next generation, what does that mean for the next one after that.

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Originally Posted by Thatperson

where 10% of people produce 25% of the population for the next generation, what does that mean for the next one after that.

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That they will still be a minority?

You need to contemplate an old Confucian saying: no tree grows to heaven.

Culture is pretty meaningless to begin with.

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/culture

1.The arts, customs, and habits that characterize a particular society or nation.
2.The beliefs, values, behavior and material objects that constitute a people's way of life. ;)

To answer the title question, maybe Europeans/North Americans simply don't mind other cultures? Or maybe we're more tolerant? Or maybe we just don't care about culture at all? Whether a mix of all 3 things, you need to remember that culture goes both ways. As muslim society slowly becomes more prominent we might pick up a few of their values and they will definitely pick up a lot of ours. As they get a bigger foothold in our countries and adapt a bit more to our culture, this problem you have with their birthrates will probably go away.

I completely agree with Xei and Taosaur on all of this.

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Originally Posted by Taosaur

You need to contemplate an old Confucian saying: no tree grows to heaven.

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Originally Posted by Xei

Do you really need me to point out to you what this kind of propaganda about an ethnic minority subverting a national culture leads to?

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Stop being concerned about something that is not a problem.

Surly though, you would oppose living under sharia law which would recriminalise homosexuality?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oldham_...id-term_causes
Also, as you can see 572 race related attacks occurred in the year before, in a town of just 103,000. This is an example of just how unstable multicultural societies are. So the thing I am concerned about clearly is a problem.

Bring back Roman numerals! Ban falafel!






(please don't ban falafel)

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Originally Posted by Thatperson

Surly though, you would oppose living under sharia law which would recriminalise homosexuality?

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You are joking right? Sharia law will never gain foothold in any countries in the EU.

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oldham_...id-term_causes
Also, as you can see 572 race related attacks occurred in the year before, in a town of just 103,000. This is an example of just how unstable multicultural societies are. So the thing I am concerned about clearly is a problem.

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So you're condemning the possibility of multicultural societies due to an incident that involved a bit less than 0.6% of a town? An incident that probably involved a lot of people from other parts of England. What happened in Oldham was pretty bad, but as the Wikipedia article explains, it was a very unique incident.

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Originally Posted by Wikipedia

They were the worst racially-motivated riots in the United Kingdom for fifteen years prior.

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Originally Posted by Wikipedia

In the year leading up to the riots, there were 572 reported race related crimes in the Oldham area, and in 62% of these, white persons were recorded as being the victims.

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If you really think this is a problem, you probably also have a solution of sorts in mind, right? I would like to hear it.

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Surly though, you would oppose living under sharia law which would recriminalise homosexuality?

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Why aren't you capable of self-analysis?

50% of the population is Christian. Have they recriminalised homosexuality, as their religious laws would also have them do?

Guys I just realised, if we let the muslims move into Europe, surly Europe will turn into a desert aswell. What will we do then?!

I thought this would happen, rather than contribute you've just decended into pure sarcasm. :)

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Originally Posted by Thatperson

I thought this would happen, rather than contribute you've just decended into pure sarcasm. :)

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You completely ignored Xei's and my other post.

sorry I thought I had already posted but DV was playing up earlier, it was a longer post but i'll just summarise

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...y-binding.html

It already has its foot in the door so to speak, it won't happen overnight. I would bet soon all fast food chains adopt a policy of only halal meat, it'll happen one step at a time. Even if constitutionaly European countries remain secular I don't want to live in a society where the majority of people are intolerent to things such as homosexuality, free speech, alcohol (even as a teetotaler), and various other aspects of our traditional european ways of life.

Where have you seen it, where birthrates have been increasing globally? Everything I have seen, shows that birthrates in industrial nations dropping over time, which is causing the entire global birthrate to drop over time as more countries become more industrial. I know that the united nations have some studies on this if you want to check. They also list world wide births remaining at a constant for the last 10-15 years. Which is a decrease in the rate, since we had more people but the number of births stayed the same.

For clarification though, I am not saying the population is dropping. Just the birthrate. The actual population will continue to increase for another 50-100 years depending on the study. Though most are expecting it to stabilize and population to level off. Some even predict that once we hit that point the population of the planet will start dropping once again.

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Originally Posted by Thatperson

So they'd rather their culture disolve than try to stop the disolving :?

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Culture isn't something you have to preserve or that is in danger of dissolving. Culture is an evolving framework in which human beings operate socially. Perhaps you are confusing culture with traditions.

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Originally Posted by Thatperson

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/culture

1.The arts, customs, and habits that characterize a particular society or nation.
2.The beliefs, values, behavior and material objects that constitute a people's way of life. ;)

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Pretty meaningless. Being defined by a particular kind of art that a society produces only serves as a means of distinguishing them from some other culture. So what? If two cultures mix and a new culture is born, woopdie-do. I don't see the significance. Behaviour, customs, values... These are pretty things, mere relics. Not individually worthless, but en-mass they only serve again as identifiers for large groups of people.