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So how are you determining this so called barbarism and civilization? It sounds to me like you are basing all of this on what YOU think and not on what is generally accepted among humans. Seeing as there aren't any guidelines for determining whether a society is barbaric or civilized, it seems you are simply making your own opinionated decision regarding the matter without any real use of fact or logic.
Leo wrote:
I tend to disagree with that...Barbarians have done much (even in the past 25 years) to furthur the progress of civilization. For example, where would be today without such influential icons as:Quote:
The good news is that History shows us that a People, once Civilized, appear to be more inclined to continue in Civilization than Primitive and Barbarian Peoples.[/b]
http://img103.echo.cx/img103/5531/thundarra4op.jpg Thundarr the Barbarian
http://img103.echo.cx/img103/9161/caveyshout5hh.jpg Captain Caveman
http://img103.echo.cx/img103/1107/barbarians46oe.jpg The Barbarian Brothers
and lastly the greatest barbarian of them all....
http://img103.echo.cx/img103/86/conan3bk.jpg Conan the Barbarian
Some use inductive reasoning while others deductively use facts to make conclusions. The first time a stone may fall to the floor, but the next it may rise to the clouds. In reality you can only prove the past. You cannot say exactly what will happen in the future, but give the illusion based on experiences, societal based facts, and theories.
I think that if there is going to be a significant human evolution in the future it will mainly be mentally and the average I.Q. of a person will be about 130. People will start understanding things a lot more.
I have little doubt we are mentally evolving. But we are falling farther away from instincts and sensory perceptions. Instead we evolvle towards a more advanced society of judicious knowlede.Quote:
Originally posted by Yume
Some use inductive reasoning while others deductively use facts to make conclusions. The first time a stone may fall to the floor, but the next it may rise to the clouds. In reality you can only prove the past. You cannot say exactly what will happen in the future, but give the illusion based on experiences, societal based facts, and theories.
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I think that if there is going to be a significant human evolution in the future it will mainly be mentally and the average I.Q. of a person will be about 130. People will start understanding things a lot more.
And that is all you can do is speculate about two cultures evolving in two differant ways.
Nature tends to work that way naturally. With our culture our weekest is not thinned out. It is rather carried by the strong. So I don't believe our race will evovle as fast as natural order would allow.
I can't say that we would not be a better race of people if our thought process was based on some of the things I mentioned from the original post.
Would we have been to the moon? Maybe not.
Would we deplete our natural resources and have racial gaps as big as they are? Or would we do so many of the things that our race does for a so called sophisticated society?
I think the whole reason I began this post is the arrogance of our race and how we became this way. Are we really as refined, inclusive or worldly as we claim to be?
I think we are just more complex barbarians.
"If you're looking at the highlights of human development, you have to look at the evolution of the organism, and then add the development of the interaction with its environment. Evolution of the organism will begin with the evolution of life, proceeding through the hominid, coming to the evolution of mankind: neanderthal, cro-magnon man. Now, interestingly, what you're looking at here are three strains: biological, anthropological (development of cities, cultures), and cultural (which is human expression). Now, what you've seen here is the evolution of populations, not so much the evolution of individuals. And in addition, if you look at the time-scale that's involved here: two billion years for life, six million years
for the hominid, a hundred-thousand years for mankind as we know it, you're beginning to see the telescoping nature of the evolutionary paradigm. And then, when you get to agriculture, when you get to the scientific revolution and the industrial revolution, you're looking at ten thousand years, four hundred years, a hundred and fifty years. You're seeing a further telescoping of this evolutionary time. What that means is that as we go through the new evolution, it's going to telescope to the point that we should see it manifest itself within our lifetimes, within a generation. The new evolution stems from information, and it stems from two types of information: digital and analog. The digital is artificial intelligence; The analog results from molecular biology, the cloning of the organism, and you knit the two together with neurobiology. Before, under the old evolutionary paradigm, one would die and the other would grow and dominate. But, under the new paradigm, they would exist as a mutually supportive, non-competitive grouping independent from the external. Now what is interesting here is that evolution now becomes an individually-centered process eminating from the needs and desires of the individual, and not an external process, a passive process, where the individual is just at the whim of the collective.
So, you produce a neo-human with a new individuality, a new consciousness. But, that's only the beginning of the evolutionary cycle because as the next cycle proceeds, the input is now this new intelligence. As intelligence pods on intelligence, as abilty pods on ability, the speed changes. Until what? Until you reach a crescendo. In a way, it could be imagined as an almost instantaneous fulfillment of human, human and neo-human, potential. It could be something totally different. It could be the amplification of the individual...the multiplication of individual existences, parallel existences, now with the individual no longer restricted by time and space. And the manifestations of this neo-human type evolution could be dramatically counter-intuitive; That's the interesting part. The old evolution is cold, it's sterile, it's efficient. And, it's manifestations are those social adaptations. We're talking about parasitism, dominance, morality, war, predation. These will be subject to de-emphasis. These will be subject to de-evolution. The new evolutionary paradigm will give us the human traits of truth, of loyalty, of justice, of freedom. These will be the manifestations of the new evolution, and that is what we would hope to see from this, that would be nice."
There has been quite a few nice history lessons in this Topic.
Thanks for the reply tetragrammaton!
In short, are you saying that instead of nature taking it's natural coarse of development, we in ways are creating our own? And in as a result the process speeds up as well.
I know there is a lot more to what you have said, but that is generally what I began to picture as I read through your response.
I had a dream last night that we were all evloving (according to my aunt) to become indigitals :P .....Whatever that is.
I looked at all my messages and read tetragrammaton's response and did not have time to write back. So I think It was in my head as I went to sleep.
Not sure if this will be relevant to this topic but it’s the first thing that came to remembrance. In a book I read. I’ll have to paraphrase. ”As we learn and search our selves we form and have opinions. When we find our self then we know”. 8)
Relavance or not dreamtamer007, I like it. That says a lot in a short sentance.Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtamer007
Not sure if this will be relevant to this topic but it’s the first thing that came to remembrance. In a book I read. I’ll have to paraphrase. ”As we learn and search our selves we form and have opinions. When we find our self then we know”. 8)
:thumbup:
It made me stop and think about several points.
How do you truely find yourself? You would think you would have to observe yourself on a consistant basis yet it is difficult to truely observe yourself from an aspect of being outside, being the observer, or yourself. :P
I think it was an American Indian Mohawk Tribe that had some people called a Shaman (means one who dreams). Sorry I'm not sure if that was the tribe but in the book Conscious Dreaming by Robert Moss he travels and learns from many different people and the phrase got my attention. “Opinions until we find ourselves, then we know”. I feel that other cultures have experienced a closer relationship with their dreams and subconscious and we need to do some searching to catch up. You might find his book interesting.
dreamtamer007,
Concous Dreaming was one of the first books I got of off half.com. where you can by used books and Cds.A spiritual path for Everyday Life. It was a long time ago when I read it. So it is rather vague in my memory.
But you are right. We as a culture do have some cathing up to do.
That brings out a very good point. My Question, Had we evolved? There is my answer!!! Righton our own planet, just in other cultures.
It seems to me that I myself would like an integrated system of evolution between the two. A happy medium. :)
As far as technology I think we are evolving very fast. We don't even think twice about moving across land at 60+ miles per hour in a sitting position. Wouldn't that look funny if the vehicle was invisible? When you say as a people I think the tools we use are also a part of us. If being content is a form of perfection then I think that would be an advanced state of personal evolving. Most areas of technology are never satisfied or content with present ways of life and will always strive for a better life. I would say there is a part of us that can be complete but other areas in our life that thrive on change and better ways of being. I think we can be both complex and simple at the same time meaning that in some areas we have evolved and others no so. :)
dude look at us humans. WERE PATHIC! We have no gills no wings no good feet we can run at like what? 10 mph? Were freeze without clothes and were get wipped out by some diese with out medicane. If anything has eveoled on humans its our minds.
I dunno about you but I'm not 'PATHIC' ;)
We have developed to stand up and perform fine + complicated tasks with two limbs.
No other animal can outperform us on that
Our mind has also developed to the point where we can solve advanced problems in less than one generation (most of the time), and be able to communicate our knowledge and pass it on to new generations.
Other animals generally need to use genetic specialisation to solve life's problems, and this takes many generations.
On top of that, most of us have developed to be able to understand multiple views on a topic without necessarily agreeing to them all.
We can understand each other without agreeing with each other.
Other animals cannot do that.
You are judging our development based on our ability to survive. ie. we die easily.
Do you really think that humans are bad at survival? Do you live each day worried about being eaten by a predator?
That is just it Placebo. We don't have gills, wings etc. because the evolution of our mind has created an environment we have adapted to mentally. To look ahead, to forshadow, plan and comprehend. We do not have do rely on basic instincts.
It could be we do not rely on them enough though. We ashave become increasingly dependant on our minds creations to make life easier. As a result we do not have many of those instincts left to fall back on.
To begin with I was talking about our brains evolving in two differant different paths. Rather than the physical. But now that you mention it, if one were to evolve their sense like LDs, OBEs, Sixth senses and others, it could very well include the physical aspect into the mix.
But think about it, think about all the ppl who make inventions and make medical and make an advancment in human life! Without them we are pathce, thats what makes us differnt from animals, all animals are differnt i know but they follow instict which whould be a good think i dont want no hitler bear running around.
What I am trying to portray is physcolgical evolution as compared to scientific evolution. In some ways they are obviously the same. But by reading the beginning post where might we be had we evolved in another manner than gene manipulation, internet, cell phones, etc. Or instead telechenisis, remote viewing, dream sharing and such. Even if you don't believe in those concepts, at least give it the time of day to think what or present day would hold had we advanced in that manner at the same pace has we have scientifically and technologically.Quote:
Originally posted by justme
But think about it, think about all the ppl who make inventions and make medical and make an advancment in human life! Without them we are pathce, thats what makes us differnt from animals, all animals are differnt i know but they follow instict which whould be a good think i dont want no hitler bear running around.
I recommend the Foundation series by Isaac Asimov; they are my favorite books and are about this very subject :). The ***-** (j/k :lol:) novels are about a future technology-based society where a scientist has reduced human behavior to mathematical equations. In a large enough population (in the quadrillions) it turns out that humans are perfectly predictable (just like particles in statistical physics). This scientist forms a republic and gives the leaders a set of instructions to follow. In this way the scientist over the next thousand years conquers the Galaxy from the past by calculation.
However, it is discovered that there are people who have separated themselves out on a few planets and secretly developed a mental-based society like how Howetzer describes. They have developed telepathy, ESP, and even mind control. On one planet they have developed this so far that they had become a mass-mind and even used their minds to control vegetation, wind, volcanoes, etc (even the mantle of the planet had a slight bit of consciousness, although not nearly as much as a brain pound for pound). Their plan for the galaxy was to create a gigantic galactic consciousness that ingulfed everything.
At the very end of the series, a decision had to be made by one person which plan for the galaxy would be selected...
The Foundation series by Isaac Asimov eeh? Sounds cool. Thanks Feeble Wizard! It sounds like it would even further spark my imagination about the topic.
How many book are in the series?
There are five books in the main series:
Foundation
Foundation and Empire
Second Foundation
Foundation's Edge
Foundation and Earth
There are also a couple of other books that take place before these, when the scientist was coming up with his equations:
Prelude to Foundation
Forward the Foundation
Also, after Isaac Asimov died a few other Foundation books were written, but they are not as good. I only read one of them.
Also, all of these books take place in the same universe as his other works of fiction, such as the Galactic Empire series and I Robot (which I hear is completely different than the movie that I did not see).
You know i tryed most of those things and everything was a falure to me becouse i was too skeptical but i know LD's are real so im still trying!
a good website for alot of those things is www.psipog.net explore it its great!