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    Thread: Evolution in our schools.

    1. #1
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      Lightbulb Evolution in our schools.

      O.k., so this biology professor Kenneth Miller recently spoke at the Evolution International Conference in Norman, Oklahoma -- talking about the importance of "Evolution education". Here's the link to the article: OUDaily.com | Brown University scientist preaches importance of evolution education

      He obviously does not support teaching our students that there are other possible explanations of how the universe came into existence. Nope -- only Darwinism, and no other option is available! Our life formed via abiogenesis (spontaneous generation) through a primordial soup which popped out of nowhere. These organisms eventually went through a big change over billions of years, then turned into giraffes and monkeys. Natural selection, the strongest survive, blah-blah-blah, yidda-yidda-yidda.

      They are only teaching our children this garbage (Darwinism) with the hope that they will become atheists. Teaching "only Evolution" goes against the First Amendment, and against true American values.

      "Science education needs to begin at an early age" in reality means "We are going to shove Evolution down your children's throats and force them to disbelieve in a creator."

      We say no. Let's lay ALL THE OPTIONS ON THE TABLE! And Evolution is only ONE of these options! Besides, there are many scientists who disbelieve in Evolution, and there are also those who believe Religion is compatible with Evolution. Those people believe God used Evolution as a tool to create life.

      Evolution is a false theory. If Mr. Miller wants to believe his ancestors were apes, he is free to do that, but let's not force children to only learn about one side of the story.
      Last edited by Carera; 06-20-2011 at 03:32 AM.
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      I agree that we should teach children every possibility that we can.
      However, this is impossible, and your argument that they are only teaching our children with the hope that they will become atheists holds no weight. They are teaching the only theory that is supported by the most amount of evidence.
      Calling any believe "garbage" holds no weight, because it is not a point... at all.
      "Science education needs to begin at an early age" does not necessarily mean "We are going to shove evolution down your children's throats and force them to disbelieve in a creator". Most likely that is a misquote made by you, Carera.
      It is impossible to lay all the options on the table within one person's lifetime. There are a great deal of theories as to how we came to be. We are limited to teaching our children what we can with the time allotted. This is why we teach children only that theory that is supported by the most amount of evidence.
      There are many scientists who disbelieve in Evolution. A 2009 poll by Pew Research Center found that "Nearly all scientists (97%) say humans and other living things have evolved over time – 87% say evolution is due to natural processes, such as natural selection." This surely leaves quite a few that could believe in Creationism, but not all of the remaining 3%. This is why we teach children only that theory that is supported by the most amount of evidence.
      There are also those who believe religion is compatible with evolution, which leaves your entire argument weightless, due to the fact that if it is indeed compatible, then we are not "forcing children to disbelieve in a creator". Forcing a child to believe anything is also, by the way, impossible.
      "Evolution is a false theory." is an unsupported argument.

      There. I stated the OBVIOUS.

      I say: Let's not give Carera the fruitless debate she is looking for.
      Praise Jeeezus.
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      Quote Originally Posted by Carera View Post
      They are only teaching our children this garbage (Darwinism) with the hope that they will become atheists. Teaching "only Evolution" goes against the First Amendment, and against true American values.
      True American values are outdated and research has shown they are greatly at odds with reality.
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      There's a similar thread or discussion on this topic in R/S it's about teaching kids something with regards to The Stork Theory. Or something like that... but whatever. Anyway this is more than likely the same thing as the one in R/S where this thread will eventually end up anyway.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Carera View Post
      O.k., so this biology professor Kenneth Miller recently spoke at the Evolution International Conference in Norman, Oklahoma -- talking about the importance of "Evolution education". Here's the link to the article: OUDaily.com | Brown University scientist preaches importance of evolution education
      I'm a big fan of Ken Miller.

      He obviously does not support teaching our students that there are other possible explanations of how the universe came into existence. Nope -- only Darwinism, and no other option is available!
      "Darwinism" does not deal with the existence of the universe.

      Our life formed via abiogenesis (spontaneous generation) through a primordial soup which popped out of nowhere. These organisms eventually went through a big change over billions of years, then turned into giraffes and monkeys. Natural selection, the strongest survive, blah-blah-blah, yidda-yidda-yidda.
      I get the feeling this thread will be somewhat less than spectacular.

      They are only teaching our children this garbage (Darwinism) with the hope that they will become atheists. Teaching "only Evolution" goes against the First Amendment, and against true American values.
      Ridiculous paranoia. Ken Miller is Christian. Evolution is his explanation for God's creation of life.

      Maybe you could enlighten me on what these "true American values" are, and how teaching only evolution goes against the 1st Amendment.

      "Science education needs to begin at an early age" in reality means "We are going to shove Evolution down your children's throats and force them to disbelieve in a creator."
      No, it means children need to have a basis in scientific knowledge to understand more advanced and technical subjects.

      We say no.
      We?

      Let's lay ALL THE OPTIONS ON THE TABLE! And Evolution is only ONE of these options!
      What other options exist that 1) explain change in organisms, and 2) have shittons of evidence in their favor?

      Besides, there are many scientists who disbelieve in Evolution,
      Such as?

      and there are also those who believe Religion is compatible with Evolution. Those people believe God used Evolution as a tool to create life.
      Like Ken Miller.

      Evolution is a false theory. If Mr. Miller wants to believe his ancestors were apes, he is free to do that, but let's not force children to only learn about one side of the story.
      Argument by assertion.
      The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended. - Frédéric Bastiat
      I try to deny myself any illusions or delusions, and I think that this perhaps entitles me to try and deny the same to others, at least as long as they refuse to keep their fantasies to themselves. - Christopher Hitchens
      Formerly known as BLUELINE976

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      Can we all just agree to ignore this person who keeps posting these ridiculous troll threads?

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      Ahh Blueline... I was expecting you.

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      what tommo said.. Let the thread die~
      stuck alone inside your head, better off dead

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      What Tommo and NoctemConArtist and I said.. Let the thread die~
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      What sloth and noctemconartist and tommo.... wait.... bleh....
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      We need a comedy sub-forum. This could be the first thread.

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      I responded to the thread and then encouraged others to let the thread die.
      The hypocracy of this act did not become clear to me until this morning.
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    15. #15
      Xei
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      And now even your hypocrisy is hypocritical.
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      Well, seeing as we are all gathered here today. I'll entertain it.

      Quote Originally Posted by BLUELINE976 View Post
      "Darwinism" does not deal with the existence of the universe.
      "Darwinism" does not deal with Science either. In which this is something you're already aware of.

      Quote Originally Posted by BLUELINE976 View Post
      I get the feeling this thread will be somewhat less than spectacular.
      I had that feeling also and decided to jump in to change this perception.

      Quote Originally Posted by Blueline
      No, it means children need to have a basis in scientific knowledge to understand more advanced and technical subjects.
      Technical subjects is very broad and doesn't encompass 'only' evolution.

      Quote Originally Posted by Blueline
      We?
      We as "Us", All of us including you.

      Quote Originally Posted by Blueline
      What other options exist that 1) explain change in organisms, and 2) have shittons of evidence in their favor?
      1). Evloution explains the changes within an organism over time. Darwinism on the other hand is not the same thing, it explains the "hypothetical changes" of one species to another species. 2). Evolution is observable and testable and has a ton of scientific evidence in it's favor. Darwin's theory does not have an iota of scientific evidence to support it.

      Quote Originally Posted by Blueline
      Such as?
      Actually there are quite a few scientist who do not take "The Theory of Evolution" as fact. There are scientist affiliated with the Creation Research Society Group that opposes Darwinism. They have backgrounds in the fields of human anatomy, Microbiology, physics, astrophysics, atmospheric sciences, biology and a slew of other scientific fields of study and research. These are scientist who gives scientific reasons to doubt Darwin's theory of evolution.

    17. #17
      Xei
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      Who cares? What matters is their reasons, not who they are. If they don't have good ones then they're people with scientific degrees acting in an unscientific manner, end of.

      What do you mean by 'evolution explains the changes'? I have a feeling you still don't know what the basic terms mean, 'evolution' is not an explanatory device. What specifically do you mean by Darwinism?
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      No god in school, science only. The ONLY scientific explanation is evolution. Do you think evolution should be taught in churches? No? Then keep creationism out of the classrooms. Should we teach that the sun revolves around the earth too? It has the same amount of scientific merit as the creation myth.

      Evolution is not a false theory, it is the scientifically accepted theory for how animals came to be what they are today, and there are boat loads of evidence for it.

      Evolution is not to make people atheists, its to make them understand science, and let them make up their own mind. Only fanatical people like you think they are mutually exclusive. You do know that Charles Darwin himself was a christian man correct? "God" was his explanation for how life came from the primordial ooze. We now know that's not true, but he thought so.

      It's actually in line with the first amendment, the amendment says it will establish no laws dealing with religion, forcing public schools to teach christian ideas violates that. You have the option to send your kids to christian schools if you want to shelter them from science.

      If public schools want to teach the bible, fine, but they should teach it for what it is: literature, and nothing more.
      Last edited by ninja9578; 06-20-2011 at 04:32 PM.

    19. #19
      Xei
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      Evolution is not a false theory, it is the scientifically accepted theory for how animals came to be what they are today, and there are boat loads of evidence for it.
      ...in ironic contrast to the amount of evidence for Noah's Ark.

      Quote Originally Posted by ninja9578 View Post
      Evolution is not to make people atheists, its to make them understand science, and let them make up their own mind. Only fanatical people like you think they are mutually exclusive. You do know that Charles Darwin himself was a christian man correct? "God" was his explanation for how life came from the primordial ooze. We now know that's not true, but he thought so.
      To be honest that's not really true... well, perhaps for a time he shared both beliefs, but did become sceptical, and then one of his daughters died, at which point he seems to have become completely secular.
      Last edited by Xei; 06-20-2011 at 04:37 PM.

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      Personally I believe in hardcore evolution. All that new horseshit from the last couple centuries is false.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Xei View Post
      Who cares?
      Apparently you care since you're responding.

      Quote Originally Posted by Xei
      What do you mean by 'evolution explains the changes'?
      I mean the "exact same" thing that Blueline meant when he made the "exact same" statement.

      Quote Originally Posted by Xei
      I have a feeling you still don't know what the basic terms mean, 'evolution' is not an explanatory device.
      It doesn't matter what you feel. First of all I'm not arguing evolution and if you actually read my post you would understand this already.

      Quote Originally Posted by Xei
      What specifically do you mean by Darwinism?
      Why are you asking me a question that I've already explained? Read my post again and you'll see exactly what I mean by Darwinism.

      Quote Originally Posted by ninja9578 View Post
      No god in school, science only. The ONLY scientific explanation is evolution.
      The only scientific explanation to what exactly?

      Quote Originally Posted by ninja9578 View Post
      Evolution is not a false theory, it is the scientifically accepted theory for how animals came to be what they are today, and there are boat loads of evidence for it.
      One species of an animal sharing a common ancestor with another species of an animal is not the same as evolution. What you are speaking of is an hypothetical scenario proposed by Darwin and it does not have any scientific evidence to support it. Evolution is not a false theory but Darwin's theory is not proven to be true.

      Quote Originally Posted by ninja9578 View Post
      Evolution is not to make people atheists, its to make them understand science, and let them make up their own mind.
      This is true, evolution is in fact not set up to make people atheist. I believe in evolution and I'm not atheist. However, it's wise to not mix Pseudo-science with 'actual Science'. The two are indeed mutually exclusive.

      Quote Originally Posted by ninja9578 View Post
      If public schools want to teach the bible, fine, but they should teach it for what it is: literature, and nothing more.
      I don't see a problem with teaching kids that there is possibly an intelligent designer that has created life opposed to life arising by chance.( In which life arising by chance is not evolution anyway but whatever, you know what I mean). Neither has any strong empirical evidence to support it so it really shouldn't matter. As time goes on and that child becomes older, then, the child should decided which route they plan on taking in their life and what they prefer to believe. I believe Darwinism should be introduced to schools but I think such a theory deserves to be challenged as well and not taken as 100% pure fact when it's not.
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    22. #22
      Xei
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      You answered zero questions. As is the case with every post you have ever made, you simply refused point blank to say anything objective and just splurged a bunch of fallacious/dodging/trolling rhetoric.

      If you'd ever like another shot,

      1. What do you mean by evolution?
      2. What do you mean by natural selection?

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      To be honest I am not sure if he was being serious or not. Apparently there are some people who do believe stuff like that, so it could be serious. On the other hand, I really do hold a positive view on humanity so I usually assume anyone who thinks fundamental aspects of reality don't exists are just joking, or trying to be cleaver with satire.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Xei View Post
      If you'd ever like another shot,
      Another shot at what? Another shot at you not actually reading anything I'm posting? It's always the same story with you Xei. I cannot make this any more clear than I've already stated it. If you can't grasp what I'm saying then oh well. I don't know what to tell you ole' chap.

      Quote Originally Posted by Xei
      1. What do you mean by evolution?
      What do I mean by evolution? My argument wasn't about evolution and I've already told you this. You need to get a clue.
      Quote Originally Posted by Ne-yo
      First of all I'm not arguing evolution and if you actually read my post you would understand this already.
      Quote Originally Posted by Xei
      2. What do you mean by natural selection?
      The word "Natural Selection" was never mentioned by me so why are you asking me this question?

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      Quote Originally Posted by Xei View Post
      To be honest that's not really true... well, perhaps for a time he shared both beliefs, but did become sceptical, and then one of his daughters died, at which point he seems to have become completely secular.
      True, but when he first developed his theory, he believed a god spawned life from the primordial ooze
      Quote Originally Posted by Ne-yo View Post
      One species of an animal sharing a common ancestor with another species of an animal is not the same as evolution. What you are speaking of is an hypothetical scenario proposed by Darwin and it does not have any scientific evidence to support it. Evolution is not a false theory but Darwin's theory is not proven to be true.
      gravity isn't proven to be true either, but it is. And yes there is, imperial evidence o the fossil record and genetic analysis of current animals. Not to mention that at the microlevel, it can actually be observed.

      OP: next time you need an antibiotic for something, get penicillin. If you don't believe in evolution, then obviously the medical Helene that bacteria have evolved resistance to certain drugs is just an atheist scam to corrupt you children. If you have faith that evolution isn't real you will get better from the penicillin, if evolution is real, you'll die. Good test of faith if you ask me.



      This is true, evolution is in fact not set up to make people atheist. I believe in evolution and I'm not atheist. However, it's wise to not mix Pseudo-science with 'actual Science'. The two are indeed mutually exclusive.
      this is true, evolution has more merit than creationism because evolution is a theory, and creationism is a myth. The difference is that theory abides by the scientific theory, it works from the evidence to get to the conclusion, and if counter examples show up, the therou is revised, creationism goes in the opposite direction to both.



      I don't see a problem with teaching kids that there is possibly an intelligent designer that has created life opposed to life arising by chance.( In which life arising by chance is not evolution anyway but whatever, you know what I mean). Neither has any strong empirical evidence to support it so it really shouldn't matter. As time goes on and that child becomes older, then, the child should decided which route they plan on taking in their life and what they prefer to believe. I believe Darwinism should be introduced to schools but I think such a theory deserves to be challenged as well and not taken as 100% pure fact when it's not.
      no one is denying this. There is a impossibly thin, but completely scientifically viable chance than an alien intelligence planted life on earth. Alien, not magical.
      Last edited by ninja9578; 06-20-2011 at 06:08 PM.

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