Thread: Martial Arts

Gun might be reachable, but he is not able to take a shoot before his arm is broken or I have done something else. Also, all unarmed skills are rendered pretty much useless against a gun ( except in close combat applications). But a part of realistic view is that people don't generally even carry a firearm and more so use it afterwards. Why would anyone get into unarmed brawl if they carry a gun, risking losing it to the one they are fighting against?

In that particular control, opponent is lying sideways. Full control, which I almost everytime succeed to get forces opponent to lay on his stomach and is pinpointed to the ground with knee to the head or shoulder. In that case it is almost same whatever he decides to do with his free hand, since the arc he is able to move it is almost noexistent. Yes, you don't get to that position from ground, but I rarely see situations begin from ground. You get to that by getting a hold or lock on the standing position and locking your opponent to the ground. You don't need to throw, althought that is very good follow-up for any overhead throw. We are working on filming our own technique sets, so if we ever get that ready I can post some clips. or at least photos or something. It might take a long while though.. we are little hands full with all other things at the moment.

We have a company that consists many of long term bouncers and security personel. While we are all up to date on use of force and martial things, we don't usually need them. Being a bouncer is first of all a customer service job. It is our job to see that everyone in the bar/occasion has a good time and can have it safely. 95% of the situations is done with the best weapon ever : mouth. Words and smile. Besides, you get a lot of tips and beautiful chicks to go home with time to time

Wow, bouncers around here are just big guys, they have little to no knowledge of martial arts, I've gone up against a few in MMA tournaments, they were easy to dispatch. Security guards also have little training, they have less than cops, which don't have much. If you have 15 years of training, you are way above everyone else, at least in the US

There are same problems with majority in here. They basically take anyone to the door without any expertise or suitable personality. I have seen many grim faced, ready-to-fight bouncers in my life too and that is just plain sad. I don't care a s#"@t if a man is a nation wide MMA champion. That has nothing to do with the job or his ability to do it properly. Besides, MMA is a very bad choice for security personel, if that is all he has ever done. Or to pure self-defence to that matter.

Originally Posted by Unelias

There are same problems with majority in here. They basically take anyone to the door without any expertise or suitable personality. I have seen many grim faced, ready-to-fight bouncers in my life too and that is just plain sad. I don't care a s#"@t if a man is a nation wide MMA champion. That has nothing to do with the job or his ability to do it properly. Besides, MMA is a very bad choice for security personel, if that is all he has ever done. Or to pure self-defence to that matter.

Yeah, MMA doesn't translate well to real world situations. I can't tell you the number of idiots who have told me that their Muay Thai will beat my karate any time. Really? Miss a high kick once and you're off balance for a good second. I've done karate for 20 years, I don't need a full second.

You can say "shit" on DV

Originally Posted by ninja9578

Yeah, MMA doesn't translate well to real world situations. I can't tell you the number of idiots who have told me that their Muay Thai will beat my karate any time. Really? Miss a high kick once and you're off balance for a good second. I've done karate for 20 years, I don't need a full second.

Kyokushin beats muyu thai in overall in my opinion. But then again kyokushin is pretty much only style of karate I have high respect of. They both share my respect for toughness and relentless approach on fighting. For high kicks, there are many types of fighters in thai boxing and those I know KO most people with their lowkicks, very much like those in kyokushin. They don't need to kick high.

Yeah, I realized I can swear but somehow I am so used to censoring my swears I tend to forget it

I've been doing martial arts for about 5 or 6 years, my main style is kenpo karate although I'm learning Gracie Jui jitsu with some Muay Thai and kick boxing. I've done a little bit of Pekiti Tersai Kali which translates to the little knife fighting training I've had, I'm going to be teaching 6-7 year olds soon as a paid instructor and I'm already assisting in the classes for free.

EDIT: Also ninja, since you have 20 years of experience and have (I'm assuming) been in fights is Gracie Jiu jitsu a good martial art for fighting? I just want to know purely for self defense reasons.

Paid instructor? Do they pay you in your place? O.o
I have trained all kinds of people for almost 10 years for free...

must... make... a ... change...

is Gracie Jiu jitsu a good martial art for fighting? I just want to know purely for self defense reasons.

If you skip the sport variant and train with punches and kicks then yes. It is one of the best for groundwork ( submission wrestling is generally better, because it is without gi). But you have to train it for self-defence, which means you don't go to the ground. WHICH means you have to train a lot more than that.

But I love to wrestle, it is just plain fun and it is a good style overall.

Originally Posted by Unelias

Paid instructor? Do they pay you in your place? O.o
I have trained all kinds of people for almost 10 years for free...

must... make... a ... change...

Really? Even hippie me charged students.

Originally Posted by ooflendoodle

EDIT: Also ninja, since you have 20 years of experience and have (I'm assuming) been in fights is Gracie Jiu jitsu a good martial art for fighting? I just want to know purely for self defense reasons.

Yes, as long as you don't rely on it. It's good for not letting yourself get taken down by an attacker, and if they do manage to do it, it's good for getting yourself back up. Never grapple someone who's attacked you though, always assume they are armed. A guy with a knife isn't much threat standing up, but it's a big threat when you are on your back.

Yes, we too charge for students twice a year, but it is a way different thing than paying instructors. If I got payed with the same hour taxation I do my current job, I wouldn't have to do any other job. We use our money to the benefit of our dojo. Buy more equipment, pay all the extra activities ( season endings, beginnings etc.), pay competition bills... I have always hated those money centric clubs that do exist even here, because the quality of most of them is truly, truly awful. I'll have to citate Go Ri No Sho here...

If we look at the world we see arts for sale. Men use equipment to sell their own selves. As if with the nut and the flower, the nut has become less than the flower. In this kind of Way of Strategy, both those teaching and those learning the way are concerned with colouring and showing off their technique, trying to hasten the bloom of the flower. They speak of "This Dojo" and "That Dojo". They are looking for profit. Someone once said "Immature strategy is the cause of grief". That was a true saying.

How much do you charge of one person or do you have like 1000 students so you can afford to pay for instructors? :S

Um at least 200 but there are only about three instructors and I would probably work minimum wage.

You don't have to tell, f you don't want to, but may I ask how much you get paid?

Originally Posted by Unelias

How much do you charge of one person or do you have like 1000 students so you can afford to pay for instructors? :S

I was the only instructor, I had high ranking students assist me. I didn't run a huge dojo, it was a small class, I didn't make enough for the IRS to even have to know about it, so there was no taxes The only costs were the insurance for the class, so I didn't charge much. I've never actually even seen a dojo that had more than one instructor, where do you teach?

I think a history lesson is in order about some martial arts. I find that if I know the history of how things came to be, and what they were designed for, I can make a better decision about choosing one. This is how martial arts come to be in china and japan

In ancient China, there were many warring clans, and there travelled around. They would stop at monasteries, where they would be cared for by the monks that were there. In return, often times, the warriors would teach them things, about survival, technology, medicine, and war. The monks were scholars, and would study the different fighting styles, and alter them, making them more and more efficient, this is why tibetan monks are famous for their martial arts (even though they themselves are peaceful.) But because they were monks, they studied the body, medicine, lots of other things, this is where the idea of chi came from. The realized if you touch the body in certain places, it would cure certain muscle afflictions, in modern times we call them pressure points and we now know they work by releasing and moving electrolytes and endorphins. They were also deeply religious, which is where the mysticism and spiritualism came into being in what we now blanket term "wushu kung fu." It's heavy into kicking and punching, because warrior clans in china wore light armour, they fought in the desert, and heavy armour would overheat them.

In feudal japan, martial arts came to being very differently. There is a reason that japanese styles (like the one I teach) are less into striking and more into throwing and evading opponents. The samurai, wore heavy armour, and kicking it or punching it would do absolutely nothing, so in order to kill a samurai, they would have to throw them on the ground, lock them up, then draw a weapon and execute the kill. People are always impressed when little me can easily toss a 300 pound man over my shoulder, that's because the technique was specifically designed to throw warriors wearing 50+ pounds of armour. The japanese rulers oppressed the people, and they weren't permitted to learn fighting styles (they fear revolt,) so they learned it underground and use farming tools as weapons (nunchakus are actually for harvesting rice, kamas are for cutting stalks, sai are for planting...) The feudal peasants were labourers, they had religion, but were not terribly devout, and they had no knowledge of medicine, nor did they have time to learn it. This is why japanese styles lack the concept of chi, or any type of mysticism. Granted, there is mysticism around some styles, ninjitsu specifically, but that was for deception and creating fear, not any spiritual reasons.

In modern times, they are very much mixed. In fact, even though I teach a form of karate, I'm a much better stand-up fighter than a grappler. Styles and [good] instructors adapt with the times, in self defense, your attacker won't be wearing armour, so kicking and punching is an effective way to stop someone, and I teach that as much as I teach redirection and joint locks.

Considering japanese arts as you stated jujutsu was used after a weapon was lost or broken to throw or fell an opponent or perform a disarm. About ki actually japanese styles have much of it. Aikido which was based on jujutsu has a strong emphasis in a ki and aiki concept. Judo is pretty much about aiki too, using momentum to perform throw or sweep. Many forms of karate share the idea of ki. It is just more that concept of ki is shrouded in mystery during centuries and there are many opinions of it. Concept of aiki is real though, literally meaning harmony of life/force. The hardest concept, yet the most profound in martial arts. Using your opponents momentum and force to exploit weakness in his body or movement. Naturally, there are most likely very few that can efficently use complex aiki techniques in real fight, because it is insanely hard in uncontrolled fight.

Now, I am not sure did you intend to post this thread here, as informative or was it ment to go in the thread where we discussed about ki

I didn't know that. I've never done any of those styles.

I've been wanting to start learning some form of martial arts since I can remember. Just my parents didn't take me anywhere as a kid, and I've only started re-thinking about it the now.

I think it's one of those things though that you need to find a really good teacher for it... It looks to me so precise. A lot of places look like they only set up business for the money.

There's a Kuk Sool Won class that goes on in my school (well, not put on by the school, just using the gyms and stuff.) that I was thinking about. Anyone know anything about it?

Sounds like Korean. Never heard of it and I have heard and visited countless amount of martial systems. You should always ask yourself before beginning what is your goal for training. A couple of suggestions :

1. Getting in shape
2. Self-defence
3. Sport/competition
4. just a hobby
5. Wanting to be a serious minded martial artist

After watching couple of clips from Tube it seems that it is rather traditional system. Strange postures and movements, which usually don't promise good. Can be an exception, naturally. Like most Korean arts, it puts great emphasis on kicks, which makes is incredibly one-sided. In the tournament clip they did mostly spin kicks and jump kicks. No punches or close techniques at all.

Originally Posted by Unelias

Sounds like Korean. Never heard of it and I have heard and visited countless amount of martial systems. You should always ask yourself before beginning what is your goal for training. A couple of suggestions :

1. Getting in shape
2. Self-defence
3. Sport/competition
4. just a hobby
5. Wanting to be a serious minded martial artist

After watching couple of clips from Tube it seems that it is rather traditional system. Strange postures and movements, which usually don't promise good. Can be an exception, naturally. Like most Korean arts, it puts great emphasis on kicks, which makes is incredibly one-sided. In the tournament clip they did mostly spin kicks and jump kicks. No punches or close techniques at all.

Hmmm... Mostly just for a hobby and something to learn, though I'd welcome competitions if they came along, they'd be fun. If it's something I get really into, maybe 5. But it's not a goal the now. And of course self defense is a plus, though I know that some martial arts can't really be counted on for that...

Well I have pretty much no idea about martial arts the now and which to choose. Obviously it also comes down to what's available in my area, so I've got a lot of reading up to do.

Thanks for the info Unelias