How my dreams form!

I have come to the conclusion of how my dreams may form, and this is really a consistent pattern. Basically, it goes like this:

The dream usually revolves around something that I least thought about during the day. Yes, least thought about. The things that I most think about during the day and/or before bed are those that will never show up in my dreams. I also noticed this pattern when I was a kid, and therefore whenever I wanted to avoid a certain type of nightmare, I would think about it repeatedly before going to bed, and then voila, I wouldn't dream about it.

Years later it is the same principle with me. What I dream about is usually something that I discussed with someone for a very short time, or saw on TV, or read somewhere, and then forgot about the rest of the day. The key is that it has to be something that I did/saw/read, and then forgot about it. That something will be a major part of my dreams during the night.

Here is an example: I read an article in a paper about some new invention. But it doesn't really interest me, so I just forgot about it as the day went on. I go to bed, and dream something that has to do with this article.

Whatever I really focus on thinking about during the day and/or before bed is something that 99.9% will not show up in my dream. I should also add that the MILD technique never worked for me. It was only DILD through a RC, and also WBTB/WILD.

It really brings new ideas to me about how dreams may form in general. Could it be that our brain tries to resolve "incomplete" things that happened during the day? It is certainly interesting.

Years ago I read on another Forum that a person noticed this exact same pattern. Has anyone on this Forum noticed something similar with themselves?

Jakob

Maybe its the things you consciously think about the most that you don't end up dreaming about. So it could be that its your subconscious holding on to certain consciously-meaningless events and using that for dream content. I, like most people, dream about whatever's on my mind before I drift off. At least your dreams are spontaneous!

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Originally Posted by RaZZZ

Maybe its the things you consciously think about the most that you don't end up dreaming about. So it could be that its your subconscious holding on to certain consciously-meaningless events and using that for dream content. I, like most people, dream about whatever's on my mind before I drift off. At least your dreams are spontaneous!

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Yes, it's the things I don't consciously think about. It's some meaningless event that happened throughout the day. Very strange indeed.

Well our dream content tends to be a mish-mosh of things but the mind basically takes everything it experienced during the day and pulls from that for our dreams. It could be that something you didn't pay much attention to you didn't focus on because you don't like it or don't understand it so during your dreams your brain is trying to figure out why by presenting it to your mind? One theory of dreams is that they exist to solve problems and keep our minds occupied while we sleep by compounding the information of the day and organizing it in memory. Perhaps your mind is trying to determine why you weren't more interested in something by seeing how you react to it in your dreams?

Personally I never really notice my dreams revolving around something I paid little attention to or something I paid particular attention to - my dreams seem to pull content from all over the place. Interesting though.

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Originally Posted by DougD720

It could be that something you didn't pay much attention to you didn't focus on because you don't like it or don't understand it so during your dreams your brain is trying to figure out why by presenting it to your mind? One theory of dreams is that they exist to solve problems and keep our minds occupied while we sleep by compounding the information of the day and organizing it in memory. Perhaps your mind is trying to determine why you weren't more interested in something by seeing how you react to it in your dreams?

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That could be it. Or perhaps my mind is looking at these situations during the day as "incomplete", and tries to complete them during the night. Either way, I find it interesting.

It happened last night again. I dreamt of two people I only mentioned once to someone during the day, and forgot about the conversation.

I know, I know, I'm a little late to this conversation, but...

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Originally Posted by Gills

I have come to the conclusion of how my dreams may form, and this is really a consistent pattern. Basically, it goes like this:

The dream usually revolves around something that I least thought about during the day. Yes, least thought about. The things that I most think about during the day and/or before bed are those that will never show up in my dreams. I also noticed this pattern when I was a kid, and therefore whenever I wanted to avoid a certain type of nightmare, I would think about it repeatedly before going to bed, and then voila, I wouldn't dream about it.

Years later it is the same principle with me. What I dream about is usually something that I discussed with someone for a very short time, or saw on TV, or read somewhere, and then forgot about the rest of the day. The key is that it has to be something that I did/saw/read, and then forgot about it. That something will be a major part of my dreams during the night.

Here is an example: I read an article in a paper about some new invention. But it doesn't really interest me, so I just forgot about it as the day went on. I go to bed, and dream something that has to do with this article.

Whatever I really focus on thinking about during the day and/or before bed is something that 99.9% will not show up in my dream. I should also add that the MILD technique never worked for me. It was only DILD through a RC, and also WBTB/WILD.

It really brings new ideas to me about how dreams may form in general. Could it be that our brain tries to resolve "incomplete" things that happened during the day? It is certainly interesting.

Years ago I read on another Forum that a person noticed this exact same pattern. Has anyone on this Forum noticed something similar with themselves?

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How about an added twist? I rarely get any day residue in my dreams at all, and if I do, it is really old stuff. With a few recurring exceptions, my dreams seem to be drawn from things that have nothing whatsoever to do with my waking reality, important or not.

I think that dreams aren't so much formed by the events of the previous day(s) as they are fueled by them. Dreams are formed by your current expectations, emotions, and physical state, among other things, I'm sure, but there are no direct rules for what's supposed to form them. Your dreaming mind might simply not be interested in continuing whatever conversations you were recently having in your head, or perhaps your unconscious is keyed to getting you as far away from the the problems, highs, and lows that fill your days -- just to give you a rest (sort of answering the needs of your current expectations, emotions, and physical state in reverse). Thinking hard about something right before sleep in that case would likely make it something to be "rested from" in the dream. This mental stance certainly would make successful MILD a non-starter, though!

I think it is curious that unimportant stuff turns up regularly in your dreams, though -- might that mean something in itself? ;) I'm not sure your brain is so much trying to resolve anything, as you suggested, than it might be simply be dipping into a pool of handy short-term memory tidbits. Or could it be that the "major" day residue of your life is appearing in your dreams, but it is simply too close to your current state of consciousness/memory for you to notice? Sort of like when you walk through your house you might pass by ll the furniture that's been there for years and not give it a thought, but you stop and take notice if a new object has arrived, or something was moved without your knowing it.

Also, though it is Interesting how you dealt with nightmares as a kid, in all honesty you likely avoided the nightmares by creating an expectation of avoiding it by thinking about it; auto-suggestion is a powerful tool.

At least having this situation, and knowledge of it, can be helpful for LD'ing, because not only are you noticing these little oddities, but they turn up regularly.

I'm not sure that made sense; curious subject, though!

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Originally Posted by Sageous

How about an added twist? I rarely get any day residue in my dreams at all, and if I do, it is really old stuff. With a few recurring exceptions, my dreams seem to be drawn from things that have nothing whatsoever to do with my waking reality, important or not.

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That's interesting as well, because it shows that this is really different from person to person. Although I do remember reading one post on the old Lucidity Institute discussion forums, where one user described the exact thing I am talking about. He too, noticed his dreams always having to do with something that he least thought about during the day.

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I think that dreams aren't so much formed by the events of the previous day(s) as they are fueled by them. Dreams are formed by your current expectations, emotions, and physical state, among other things, I'm sure, but there are no direct rules for what's supposed to form them.

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Expectation rarely worked for me. I tried to induce/incubate certain dreams by fully expecting to dream about something, but it never ever worked. Not once. I do agree however that emotions influence dreams.

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Your dreaming mind might simply not be interested in continuing whatever conversations you were recently having in your head, or perhaps your unconscious is keyed to getting you as far away from the the problems, highs, and lows that fill your days -- just to give you a rest (sort of answering the needs of your current expectations, emotions, and physical state in reverse). Thinking hard about something right before sleep in that case would likely make it something to be "rested from" in the dream. This mental stance certainly would make successful MILD a non-starter, though!

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Exactly, because MILD never worked for me. Nope, not a single time. I find this interesting because Stephen LaBerge said that MILD was his favorite method. This again shows that there are really extreme differences from person to person.

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I think it is curious that unimportant stuff turns up regularly in your dreams, though -- might that mean something in itself? ;) I'm not sure your brain is so much trying to resolve anything, as you suggested, than it might be simply be dipping into a pool of handy short-term memory tidbits. Or could it be that the "major" day residue of your life is appearing in your dreams, but it is simply too close to your current state of consciousness/memory for you to notice? Sort of like when you walk through your house you might pass by ll the furniture that's been there for years and not give it a thought, but you stop and take notice if a new object has arrived, or something was moved without your knowing it.

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It is in all seriousness always one of those things which I least thought about. For example if I had a 2 minute conversation during the day with someone about ducks, then there would an extreme likelihood I would dream something duck-related that night. But of course this would only work if I completely forgot that I had this conversation about ducks. In other words, it has to be something which happened during the day, but which is forgotten.

If I were to think about it several times during the day, then the chances of dreaming about it would be very low. If I think about it right before going to bed, or while laying in bed, then the chances of dreaming about it are close to zero.

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Also, though it is Interesting how you dealt with nightmares as a kid, in all honesty you likely avoided the nightmares by creating an expectation of avoiding it by thinking about it; auto-suggestion is a powerful tool.

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No really that's not it. I noticed a pattern, that whenever these nightmares occurred, it is when I wasn't thinking about them much during the day. But if I thought about them right before bed, and while laying in bed, then they wouldn't happen.

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At least having this situation, and knowledge of it, can be helpful for LD'ing, because not only are you noticing these little oddities, but they turn up regularly.

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The problem is, that because of this "issue", dream incubation is basically impossible for me. Unless I were to trick my mind to think about something once or twice during the day and "forget about it" later, I have no chances of dreaming about something I want. That's why lucid dreams are the only way out for me.

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I'm not sure that made sense; curious subject, though!

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You did make sense, and thank you for your lengthy response. Now I have a question: If you had the same problem as I, how would you try to incubate a dream?

Lucid dreaming induction aside, I am asking myself how you would try to "trick" your mind into having a non-lucid dream about a certain subject. If it turns into an LD later on that's not a problem.

I'd just love to hear your thoughts on this.

Welll, I disagre with tha conclusion. You will try to incubate a dream about something that you think about 2 or 3 times during the day and then forget about it. Do You know how many "things" you think about during the day and just forget about them a few seconds later? you will be incubating thousands of dream in just one night, because that is what we do all the time, doing or thinking about things and forgetting them a few seconds later, precisely because we are not "awake" most of the time

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Originally Posted by sanctispiritus

Welll, I disagre with tha conclusion. You will try to incubate a dream about something that you think about 2 or 3 times during the day and then forget about it. Do You know how many "things" you think about during the day and just forget about them a few seconds later? you will be incubating thousands of dream in just one night, because that is what we do all the time, doing or thinking about things and forgetting them a few seconds later, precisely because we are not "awake" most of the time

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Huh? What? Where? You lost me.

You completely missed the point.

Please don't bother replying anymore in this thread. Thank you.

I have some thoughts, but you'll have to wade through a couple responses first ...

[QUOTE=Gills;1920981]That's interesting as well, because it shows that this is really different from person to person. Although I do remember reading one post on the old Lucidity Institute discussion forums, where one user described the exact thing I am talking about. He too, noticed his dreams always having to do with something that he least thought about during the day. [\QUOTE] I wasn't questioning your "condition;" indeed, I've heard of it myself ... I was just offering my own twist to the subject, to agree that I think this can happen, with variety.

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Expectation rarely worked for me. I tried to induce/incubate certain dreams by fully expecting to dream about something, but it never ever worked. Not once. I do agree however that emotions influence dreams.

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Deeper expectations might be necessary (more in a minute).

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Exactly, because MILD never worked for me. Nope, not a single time. I find this interesting because Stephen LaBerge said that MILD was his favorite method. This again shows that there are really extreme differences from person to person.

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LaBerge will also be the first to tell you this, and would likely add his basic disinterest in specific "techniques," just for that reason. Yes, Stephen has a personal (annoying) knack for memory, memory games, and centers his DreamCamp lectures around memory. Funny thing is, though, he rarely suggests using MILD ... probably because he knows how different people can be! So, yeah: what you said!

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It is in all seriousness always one of those things which I least thought about. For example if I had a 2 minute conversation during the day with someone about ducks, then there would an extreme likelihood I would dream something duck-related that night. But of course this would only work if I completely forgot that I had this conversation about ducks. In other words, it has to be something which happened during the day, but which is forgotten.

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I think you misunderstood me on this, which could have been my fault. What I was trying to point out was that the "big" things in your daily experience might actually be showing up in your dreams, but they're too "macro" to readily notice. I guess the thought might not make sense, but that's where I was going...

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If I were to think about it several times during the day, then the chances of dreaming about it would be very low. If I think about it right before going to bed, or while laying in bed, then the chances of dreaming about it are close to zero.

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This is slightly different, so I separated it. That you were thinking about a thing doesn't necessarily make it something that would show up in your dreams; indeed, you seem to have a built-in mechanism that keeps the stuff you think about from turning up in your dream -- at least as recognizable events (see above), which is what you're looking for here, I think. I also think this isn't as unusual as you might think.

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No really that's not it. I noticed a pattern, that whenever these nightmares occurred, it is when I wasn't thinking about them much during the day. But if I thought about them right before bed, and while laying in bed, then they wouldn't happen.
The problem is, that because of this "issue", dream incubation is basically impossible for me. Unless I were to trick my mind to think about something once or twice during the day and "forget about it" later, I have no chances of dreaming about something I want. That's why lucid dreams are the only way out for me.

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See? you've already begun to solve the problem on your own, on a couple of levels.

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Now I have a question: If you had the same problem as I, how would you try to incubate a dream? Lucid dreaming induction aside, I am asking myself how you would try to "trick" your mind into having a non-lucid dream about a certain subject. If it turns into an LD later on that's not a problem. I'd just love to hear your thoughts on this.

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I'll give you my thoughts, but you're not going to like them...

The only solution I've found with this is to either not bother with dream induction at all, or use your imagination.

Ignoring induction means simply doing DILD (or MILD, which in your case is already moot), and preparing your mind during the day with many RC's and a heightened sense of the "odd." I won't insult you with descriptions of how to do these things, because I'm sure you're aware. Suffice it to say that, if you cannot rely on traditional signals like day residue to help you recognize the dream, you need to go to sleep with more powerful-than-normally-needed self-awareness coupled with maybe a habit or two that forces you to ask after the state you're in. This activity could also include the "deeper expectations" I mentioned above ... include your latest expectations -- maybe just a quiet thought about them -- in every RC, and you might very well find yourself remembering the expectations you went to bed with when you have your first post - Ah-Ha moment during a DILD RC. That will do nothing to incubate a dream, it will have you in the right place during the wrong dream to lend your hand to making it the right dream (see below).

But, though that answer I think is the right one, it has nothing to do with incubation, so here's another thought: Use your imagination! Don't use the dream as supplied to you at all. How? Enter your dream through WILD/DEILD, and build the dream as you see fit, with no need for references to day residue or hopes that your life's major subjects might show up. As I noticed above, you're already doing this in reverse when dealing with nightmares, so you know what to do.

In other words, with WILD you retain your waking awareness and memory throughout the dive to sleep, so there is no reason you can't "bring along" what's important to you that particular LD session. It might not be easy, because your dreaming mind is clearly not drawing from the same list of priorities as your conscious mind, but there's no reason you can't coax your unconscious into playing ball. For instance, let's say you just had a major fight with a dear friend, and want to revisit it to see what went wrong: you do WILD and, while your dreaming mind is forming a moment you spent in the market trying to decide between peas or beans, you remember your goal and simply leave the market, turn a corner, and walk into the pub where you had the fight. You might have to produce a DC of your friend, and maybe throw a beer at him to fire him up, but your dreaming mind ought to catch on eventually and give you a salient situation.

tl;dr: So I guess my suggestion is not to try incubation at all, but rather let your mind do what it must and adjust the dream to your needs after you're "in." And if you really want to get therapeutic about it, after you've made you're adjustments choose to lose lucidity and let your unconscious have at you!

I hope that helped!

I have noticed this is true for me as well.

This seems to be the rule in my case also. I've read tutorials about how the brain is supposed to incorporate the thing you think about when you're falling in sleep in your dreams, but this never worked for me either. It's a popular theory that the purpose of REM sleep is memory consolidation, so it might happen that the things you thought a lot about during the day are already stored in your long term memory, and it isn't needed to transfer them during sleep, this might explain why unimportant events of the day you forget about instantly tend appear more frequently in dreams.

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Originally Posted by Shamaness

This seems to be the rule in my case also. I've read tutorials about how the brain is supposed to incorporate the thing you think about when you're falling in sleep in your dreams, but this never worked for me either. It's a popular theory that the purpose of REM sleep is memory consolidation, so it might happen that the things you thought a lot about during the day are already stored in your long term memory, and it isn't needed to transfer them during sleep, this might explain why unimportant events of the day you forget about instantly tend appear more frequently in dreams.

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I'm very pleased to see two people in this thread who have noticed the same thing. :)

Do you have any link to an article which talks about this REM memory consolidation thing? I'm very interested in that.

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Originally Posted by Gills

Do you have any link to an article which talks about this REM memory consolidation thing?

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(remove the spaces, it seems I can't post links :) )
http: // healthysleep.med.harvard.edu / healthy / matters / benefits-of-sleep /learning-memory

This article talks about the subject, and if you search for REM sleep memory consolidation hypothesis you can find lot's of studies on the issue, although some of the conclusions are quite inconsistent and contradictory even.

Do not be so sensitive.

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Originally Posted by sanctispiritus

Do not be so sensitive.

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Huh?