Dreams: Mind-created and controlled or an entrance to other planes of existence?

Hello all,

I've noticed more than a few references to "dreams occurring in the mind," and it seems like it's almost nearly assumed to the point of "gospel."
I have zero problem with it if this a general collective agreement amongst the posters.

In fact, I'm intrigued as to why that is so. (if it is basically true in the first place)

It seems to me that there's such a fine line between dreaming (LD and non) and OBE/astral travel.
Now, I also realize that an undeterminable number of posters here believe that the latter is "hooeey."
And that's ok too.

I guess what I'm getting around to is I'd like to know what YOU think.

Please vote or recommend an addition/edit if your choice is distinct yet not included.

Have a great dream. :)

All three options
Because: the more lucid you are the less unreal dream seems to be. The more similar to astral projection... yet there is distinct difference in "taste" of mental state. I think we could be in higher dimension while dreaming, but there is so much imagination present that it is possible to clearly differentiate dream and OBE. Then there are higher dimensions... astral closest to physical world, I think(because it is easiest to project there). It has 5 dimension according others. You can travel through time there. And different timelines. Different timelines are different universes(paralel).

All contained within the ol' noggin. I suppose I should mention I think astral projection is erm......"hooeey". And, while I believe in other universe, I don't think we'll be visiting any time soon.

Thanks for the votes and perspectives. :)

I just wanted to say, that the term OBE is a bit ambiguous - mostly it is used as surrogate for Astral Projection, if you don't mean it in the Blavatski context specifically. The problem, I have with that, is that OBE is actually a neutral term.
Just like UFO means unidentified flying object - and not alien spaceship. So everything flying about and nobody knows what it is, is technically an UFO.
And out of body experience is just that technically - the experience of leaving the body.
Since it is common for WILD to start dreaming from lying in bed in one's room - it is something natural to have such an experience. Even while it is all a dream.
But there's no theosophy-free term for the supernatural interpretation - and I should probably simply give up on this nit-picking..
Oh yeah - just in the mind is my vote of course.

I have been keeping an eye out, and holding out hope for, some sort of evidence of astral planes, parallel universes, or whatever other esoteric term you want to attach to dreams taking one outside of their own mind, and to date I have found very little... same goes for dreams or dreamworlds being created outside the mind. I've seen some incredibly weird shit over the years, but little that indicates that the source of my dreams being anything but my own mind.

I have had some experiences that hint that dreams might allow the mind to "wander" a bit from its cranial realm, perhaps to intermingle with the thoughts of other wandering minds, but that wandering is likely done within the confines of this universe, and this plane of existence.

I think that the almost limitless capability of our minds to create content, and to virtually satisfy our expectations, has created a situation where we choose to disbelieve our own imaginations. In other words, you find yourself in a dream that you simply cannot believe you created on your own (especially after waking); so instead of accepting your mind's incredible ability to create dreamscapes, you humbly decide that this stuff can't be coming from you, and that the wonder you are witnessing must be from another dimension or universe. Such a stance leads to some truly creative concepts to explain (upon waking) where these dreams took you, concepts like astral travel and many of the tenets of older religions and theosophy.

Note that I said "upon waking" a couple of times above. I often wonder how many self-described astral travelers "know" they are traveling astrally during their lucid dream, or if they come to that conclusion after they wake up. I think this distinction is important. If there are any AP'ers out there, before they quickly respond that they are sure they are AP'ing when they do it, I hope they might sit down and really think for a moment about whether or not they know they are in other realms during their travels, or if those conclusions are drawn after waking. Also, if they do know that they are on other planes, I wonder how many of them lucidly test their spiritual relocation while on other planes, perhaps by making some simple change to the dream, just to be sure they are not still in their own mind.

On sort of the same note, I had to respond to this as well:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Psionik

... the more lucid you are the less unreal dream seems to be.

---

This I feel is backward. When you are not lucid, your dream almost by definition is "real" -- one of the parameters of non-lucid dreaming is that you are sure that all this stuff around you is totally, irreversibly real, just as one major aspect of becoming lucid is the recognition that this place you are in is not real (that is why we all do RC's, BTW). And, the more lucid you are, the less real your surroundings become, to the point where you finally understand that this entire dream is a construct of your own mind, and has no place in reality at all. Now, that understanding of your dream's non-reality does not preclude astral travel, because doing that would imply other realities or planes of existence, which also are unreal in terms of their relation to earthly reality.

If you were talking about vividness or clarity, Psionlink: Yes, LD's might often be more vivid than regular dreams, but increased vividness does not imply reality; just better resolution.

Lately while having more experience with lucid dreams, i've come to the conclusion that the difference between OBE/Astral projection and Lucid Dreaming or dreams in general, is energy.

Through my experience, when having supposedly OBE's, the exit into it were very distinct. With a high outburst of energy, electricity, and mental "suction" or travelling, during the exit phase. I feel there's a great Intensity, upon entering that state. Much like a rollercoaster.
I also feel like, characters are more interactive with me? but unsure of that one.

Where as in Lucid Dreams - it's more like, i just kind of conscious upon entering my dream, or becom concsious within it.

That's the only distinct way i could separate them.

I personally joined this community to day because it seems most of the people here seem to share the same idea that both lucid dreaming and astral projection are not religious things. I am amongst the population that believe astral projection is -I must say it- "hooeey"

I'm honestly not sure one way or the other. Dreams are still a huge mystery to the point where we've yet to discover why we have them in the first place. Or how it is people have precognitive dreams.

Astral projection is just as curious and mysterious. But even from the people I've read about who regularly did it, even they don't know everything about the nature of the place they claim to visit or all there is to discover.

If someone is looking for verification on astral projection, I think a person will sooner learn how to do it themselves before science proves without a doubt it's real. I'm not interested which is why I never pursued it. But I don't think one should dismiss the concept because it doesn't sound exactly possible. After all, it hasn't been proven not to exist either.

But I haven't the first clue where a dream really takes place. Maybe it's all in our minds, or maybe our minds are just what gives the dream form wherever it is.