How come certain things don't work in dreams?

Dreams can be very vivid and detailed, and our brains seem to have little problems creating complete locations very accurately just from memory.

However, there are certain things that just don't work in dreams (at least in my dreams; though I know that lots of people have experienced the same). I'm talking about stuff like:

- light switches that don't work
- not being able to dial a telephone properly (I usually have to start over and over because I keep on misdialling)
- hands having the wrong amount of fingers
- letters jumping back and forth when you try to read something

They all make for great dream signs, so I don't mind. I just remember reading somewhere on this site, that our brains use schemata to create the dream reality (which makes complete sense to me), and these schemata are based on our waking life experiences. Now, when I use a light switch in waking life, the lights go on. One might expect, that it would be the same when dreaming – I mean, I EXPECT it to happen. Still, in my dreams it never works.

It's the same with my hands: even before I chose them as a dream sign, they looked strange in my dreams. So, it's not my expectations deforming my hands, it has to be something else.

My point is: if our brains are capable to build stunningly detailed dream realities from memory, places that we have been to, how come it fails at less complex stuff like light switches or the number of fingers? Any thoughts?

Hm my hands reality check failed once, even the switch works sometimes.
Anyway I am not sure, haven't studied this too deeply but I think that our brain somehow makes this second reality based on our own memories and what's more important, not only based on them but completely on our thoughts and mind status. so O think we cannot take it like a computer game where it's somewhere saved how all the stuff works and the game just takes the data and makes them visible for us like a nice game level with walking skeletons, holy magic blasts and the lord of terror in the end...umm yeah. :D The mind probably experiments with stuff dynamically, not just copying the memories and using them but also deforming them and choosing only some parts of them.
Yea it's maybe strange that there are really some certain things that almost every time don't work or seem strange and different from the real world. Could it be caused by our expectations after we've heard about LD techniques? Or maybe there are just some dream elements that are somehow connected in our brains (the cause could be just anything, some hidden connections) cause of our lifestyle or just cause of some physical attributes. For example fingers, letter and numbers in dreams might be caused by restriction of those brain centers responsible for math and understanding written language or something (need to realize that sleep is for the body to relax and rest).

Yesterday morning in a non-lucid dream I needed to look for something in the dark,
I thought to myself get the MagLite D6 I imagined remembering in was on a table near by
I walked up to the table found it and picked it up. I turned it on, it worked, it didn't seem
bright enough I pressed the button it went off pressed again it came back on.
I held it and twisted the focusing mechanism, I looked at the beam in the darkness, it widened
it narrowed, I pointed it around it seemed brighter now and it worked just like a spot lite
the area of light was bigger and dimmer if it fell on distant things, smaller and more intense
on closer things. So sometimes it works :)

Of course I remember a dream (many months ago) where my MagLite began to heat up and
make the phaser on overload sound, and I tossed it and dove to the ground, and it exploded,
injuring a nearby DC as I went to help them I woke up


In my last lucid dream I found myself in a room with a mirror and a lite switch and was in
the dark I walked up to the switch and thought this is a dream it won't work, I flicked it twice
the dream glitched once. Expectation at work :) no light

so sometimes they work (as in MagLite above they just aren't reliable, like dream breaks in a dream car)

So, sometimes the light switches work – that's interesting. Thank you for sharing your experience :-)
I guess, malfunctioning light switches are not a natural limitation of dreams then. It's still strange that so many people seem to have problems with them (myself included).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hitokage

Yea it's maybe strange that there are really some certain things that almost every time don't work or seem strange and different from the real world. Could it be caused by our expectations after we've heard about LD techniques?

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I really doubt that, Hitokage. If that was the case, the light switches should work in non-lucid dreams, right? Besides, I had the light switch problem way before I even knew what lucid dreaming was. So, there must be another explanation.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hitokage

For example fingers, letter and numbers in dreams might be caused by restriction of those brain centers responsible for math and understanding written language or something

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That sounds very plausible to me. I never tried to do math in my dreams, but I bet I'd have problems with that, too ;-)

The light-switch thing really bugged me, and so I spent some time searching the internet. I actually found some research done on the subject:

Hearne (1981 & 1982) reported what he called the light-switch phenomenon, where light switches and other electrical components fail to work when switched on/off in dreams. He suggested that there may be a limitation on adjusting the brightness level in a dream. Moss (1989), however found that lights could be turned on (so that the brightness level of the room increased significantly) if both the switch and light were in view at the same time. This result was verified by the author. Moss suggested that if only the switch was in view, the action was vulnerable to failure.

(for the complete article: http://www.gwiznlp.com/wp-content/up...d-Dreaming.pdf)

I like the idea of keeping the switch and the light in view while trying to switch it on. Maybe it'll do the trick ;-)

Then no wonder the MagLite worked I could of course see the light when I pressed the button a D6 is only 19.75 inches long after all :) and the switch is only inches from the bulb.

I just hope I have the MagLite in a lucid some time :) it will make a great light saber :)

I also have had light switches not work in non-lucid dreams.

Maybe there is something behind it like the reason why we use lights. To see more things, to be able to get more information. Maybe this is not what we want in dreams so the dreams block this. Not sure why.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Siri

So, sometimes the light switches work – that's interesting. Thank you for sharing your experience :-)
...
Moss (1989), however found that lights could be turned on (so that the brightness level of the room increased significantly) if both the switch and light were in view at the same time
...
I like the idea of keeping the switch and the light in view while trying to switch it on. Maybe it'll do the trick ;-)

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Well let me talk of a light in a non lucid dream it was an important non lucid for many reasons. but it relates to this topic because it was the dream that taught me I could survive the void. How could a non lucid teach such a thing how could there be a void in a non luicd. There can't of course, but none the less it taught me. I was in an upper story of a near by very old and famous building. I could hear down below a hit-man or maybe it was an enforcer, they where threatening someone, I could hear the people talking then I could hear punching groaning. If I could hear them maybe they could hear me, or maybe they might see me. So I turned out the only light a small lamp with a twist knob. I was now in darkness. I could still hear them and was listening, then suddenly after about 90 seconds or so the light came back on. I felt a bit panicked it must be noticeable to the killers a light going on above in a deserted old building, so this time I unscrewed the bulb. (in each case the light went out instantly twist knob or bulb unscrew). Well I was feeling pretty safe now, surely it couldn't come back on. about a minute latter light is coming from behind me, it is an old woman carrying a lantern. Too late I hear the foot steps and see a slender woman coming up the stairs in the newly dim light a silenced weapon in her out stretched hand. I wake up.

It was then that I realized dreams seem to blur, they seem in lucids to make you go blind, (especially if you press them for to much detail), but they also seem to abhor a vacuum at least with respect to light, If you can survive (I refer to your consciousness, and your staying asleep) in the darkness vision WILL return. The next several times I was lucid and in the void, I survived more than 70% of the time. Biding my time, rubbing my hands, and knowing the light would return, even If I had to wait for some old lady to walk up in the void with my MagLite, it would return.

[since then I have learned it is actually best to start moving, I sometimes regain vision instantly if I was not standing up and my feet hit the ground. Other wise if I can feel the ground, I begin to walk searching for door handles and if I find one I open the door, this causes expectation to paint a new scene behind it. Never yet has it chosen to paint a void colored one, vision returns]

The relevance was that the switch was on the stem and well I could sure see the light when I unscrewed it.

Based on this dream I wanted to do an experiment with lights I was going to be in an enclosed room with a lamp then turn it off and turn it on, then I was going to take out the light bulb and hold it in my hands there in the darkness where there is nothing but the bulb-less lamp on the little table solid floor below solid ceiling above for solid walls close in around and me rubbing the ribbing of the light bulb with my hands. Bidding my time, daring the dream to light it, expecting to see the bulb light the room in my bare hands. If it did, my next experiment was to wait admire the ridiculousness of it all and then throw the bulb on to the floor shattering it, and then stand in the darkness rubbing my hands staring at where the shards and filament must lie. Once again daring the dream, to light the filament or perhaps even the fragments :) Who knows what would really happen I have never managed the experiment. Maybe suddenly an old woman in a crane with a wrecking ball would knock down one of those walls and offering a cigarette ask need a light?

Things sometimes don't work because messages and repressed thoughts are subconsciously sent through symbolism while we're dreaming. For example, a light switch not working may symbolize indicates a lack of insight and perspective on a situation. Or, not being able to dial a phone correctly may be a symbol of you having difficulty in getting through to someone in your waking life.

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Originally Posted by cooleymd

Well I was feeling pretty safe now, surely it couldn't come back on. about a minute latter light is coming from behind me, it is an old woman carrying a lantern. Too late I hear the foot steps and see a slender woman coming up the stairs in the newly dim light a silenced weapon in her out stretched hand. I wake up.

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:huh2: It never crossed my mind that the light switch phenomenon could also occur when you want your room to be dark. Thanks for sharing that experience :-) It makes me wonder if our subconscious simply doesn't like major changes to an established scenery. I mean, your dream was very persistent on the light matter, here.

On second thought, fear might also play a big role. In my experience, emotions can really have a strong impact on your dreams. I have had quite a couple of dreams in which I woke up in the middle of the night and had the feeling of a presence in my room, someone or something hidden in the dark. When I reached over to switch on the lamp on my nightstand, it wouldn't work and I was scared as hell. It happened so often that it eventually became a dream sign. In your dream, you feared the light because then your enemies would find you.

However, I remember a bunch of dreams, where fear wasn't involved at all, and the lights still didn't work.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dolphin

Things sometimes don't work because messages and repressed thoughts are subconsciously sent through symbolism while we're dreaming. For example, a light switch not working may symbolize indicates a lack of insight and perspective on a situation. Or, not being able to dial a phone correctly may be a symbol of you having difficulty in getting through to someone in your waking life.

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Well, yeah, symbolism is always a possibility. If this was only true for my dreams, I'd likely go with this explanation. It's just that so many people seem to have issues with malfunctioning light-switches that I think it might have to do with the nature of dreams itself.

By the way today (ehm tonight :D) I became lucid and remembered this post so I tried the mirrors and heh surprise! Everything looked completely normal!
Yea the mind is trolling sometimes :D

Mirror, I only mentioned mirror because it was in the room in the dream that wall is 10 percent door 3 percent wall with switch and 87 percent mirror :)

I was going to use the mirror to do last months mirror staring challenge (I expected my eyes to hollow out because someone mentioned that effect)

Once I got outside and was stable I was going to plant an unusual 'seed' (one of this month's tasks) and see what grew I woke up while negotiating with a DC for the 'seed' but as I looked at her, her eyes seemed to hollow out an after effect of expectation :)

I think this thread is mostly about electronics (lights inparticular) not mirrors tho