Dreams could be soon watched on computer screens

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...ch-screen.html

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Have you been dreaming of a white Christmas? Scientists may soon be able to show your winter scene on a computer screen once you've drifted into a peaceful slumber.


A Japanese research team has successfully processed and displayed images directly from the human brain, they said in a study to be published in the US magazine Neuron.


While the researchers at the ATR Computational Neuroscience Laboratories have only reproduced simple images from the brain, they said the technology could eventually be used to display dreams.


A spokesman for the Kyoto-based company said it was the first time that it had ever been possible to visualise what people saw directly from their brain activity, a spokesman said.


'By applying this technology, it may become possible to record and replay subjective images that people perceive like dreams,' they added.


When people look at an object, the eye's retina recognises an image that is converted into electrical signals which go into the brain's visual cortex.
The team, led by chief researcher Yukiyasu Kamitani, succeeded in catching the signals and then reconstructing what people saw.


Firstly they studied people's individual brain patterns by showing them some 400 different still images. They then showed volunteers the six letters in the word 'neuron' and succeeded in reconstructing the letters on a computer screen by measuring their brain activity.


Scientists hope eventually this software could be used to map complex dreams.


Dreaming is associated with rapid eye movement sleep although the biological purpose is still not understood. The most common recorded emotion experienced in dreams is anxiety.

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More links, from duplicate threads by other members that were merged into this one:
http://www.mediafire.com/?gmlefuzunng
http://www.physorg.com/news148193433.html
http://gizmodo.com/5107377/new-techn...eams-on-screen
-Shift ;)

yay! That sounds so cool, now to wait for the device to be complete, then public... then to arrive here, and then to get a better comp that can actually record a movie withouth extreme lag <.<

I never knew we were anywhere near being able to do something like this. This is extremely exciting news. It has always been my dream to have a machine that could record dreams.

I have thought about this tecnology myself and wonder would I get it.

If this ever comes true, Lucid Dreamer will be the movers and the money makers of Hollywood. Everyone would rather hire a Lucid Dreamer then a Special effect artist :D

I had a dream one of my friends was telling me he had a lucid dream, and I asked him "Really what did you do?" then he said "Ill show you! I recorded it"

weird eh?

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Originally Posted by Barbizzle

If this ever comes true, Lucid Dreamer will be the movers and the money makers of Hollywood. Everyone would rather hire a Lucid Dreamer then a Special effect artist :D

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Actually, wouldn't that make any company with a good lucid dreamer as good as hollywood lol.
I wonder if the same would work for cartoons <.<

Why bother with the monitor? Wouldn't it be easier to redirect the signals to another person's brain? How cool would that be!! Shared dreaming here we come!

DC Mini anyone?

Paprika :) Oh god, that would be scary on second thought.

That would be awesome to have a Paprika dream!

I saw a documentary on TV about a month ago, it actually involved lucid dreams, it was called, The Human Body: Pushing the Limits and it had this lady, who lost her sight, but doctors drilled holes in her head and gave her some sight back. It wasn't very much but it was a big leap. They said one day we would get video games "zapped" directly into our heads!
~rvdork :banana:

On the one hand, this could be incredibly cool.

On the other hand, we're talking potential for some serious invasion of privacy once governments and "law makers" get hold of it. I can just imagine the "thought police" creating laws for punishing us for what we dream about.:roll::shock:

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Originally Posted by Robot_Butler

Why bother with the monitor? Wouldn't it be easier to redirect the signals to another person's brain? How cool would that be!! Shared dreaming here we come!

DC Mini anyone?

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This could be awesome, but also embarrassing. What if you lost lucidity or control and suddenly you are broadcasting your innermost thoughts to another person. Eek!:oops:

OMG this is a dream come drue. Having all of your dreams recorded to a device for your viewing pleasure.... F R E A K I N G A W E S O M E.

Whoopee, another step towards loosing mental privacy! Damn I hate science sometimes.

Here's the technical breakdown if anyone's interested:

http://www.mediafire.com/?gmlefuzunng

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Originally Posted by hypnotoad1579

Whoopee, another step towards loosing mental privacy! Damn I hate science sometimes.

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Quite the contrary this simply means we know have the means to reproduce dream sequences, imagery, etc. For those who would be interested. Most likely you would have to actually go to a scientist to have this done.

But seriously this is quite a breakthrough in the field of science.

I'm confused as to how this destroys mental privacy. I mean, you're not being forced to hook up your brain to the monitor. Just do it when you feel like it. Or better yet, record every dream you have (great for those who have very bad dream recall) and just not show people the embarrassing ones.

By the way, dreams could be a substitute for porn once we can start recording them... >>;

But I think this is awesome. This is one step closer to true virtual reality!

I find this whole "dream screen" a bit off. After all, it's our brains which are interpretting the signals and turning them into images. In order to actually record a dream so that someone could watch it, the computer, which picks up brain wave activity or dream activity if you will, would have to interpret the signals the same way the individual's brain does. And I'm no brain sergeon (or even spelling sergeon for that matter!) but I would think that your "mind's eye" interprets certain signals differently than mine does. Therefore, a computer would have to generate its own images, which may look nothing like the dream.

Strange stuff man.......

I'm definitely not hookin my head up to that new-fangled nonsense! Hahahahaha.

Seriously though. That is pretty awesome.

Wow wow WOW! :D Well now that I've read the general explanation, it's not as out-there as I would have thought. Ohhh I love Japan today. I should visit.

Imagine instead of keeping a dream journal on paper or typing one up, it'd all be on video. Ohhhh wow.

Perhaps the next step will be preprogrammed dreams, or the Matrix. Dang. That was fast.

The real question is, would you want people to be able to see into your dreams?

Wow! Could be great for working out whether someone is innocent or guilty of a crime.

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Originally Posted by DreamQueen

Wow! Could be great for working out whether someone is innocent or guilty of a crime.

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How?

Probably something like the electric car....read about it but don't see it in use.

IMJ

My dream videos would be naughty!

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Originally Posted by imj

Probably something like the electric car....read about it but don't see it in use.

IMJ

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I'll have to agree with IMJ on this one, it'll probably get widely acknowledged if the dream recording/watching technology gets off the ground but it'll probably be too expensive/ have too smaller market for it to really reach it's potential anytime soon...

From what I read it can only project simple images(probably like little white dots here and there), let alone these are probably still images not in realtime.

It is really cool indeed, but I think its still extremely far off from actually being useful for the everyday person.

I watched a ripleys show about a year ago about a blind lady having surgery to help her see the world via a small camera on a pair of glasses. She could only see white dots ontop of objects that stood out but it was really cool.

I could be wrong but I'm willing to bet that this works some what the same way but with dreams.

I'd sure like to see and use this before my life is over, but I have doubt that it'll either take longer then that to perfect it for the public or it wont hit the market at all.

I dislike this idea. I've been dreaming (haha) about such technology since I was little and wanted to 'videotape my dreams'.

But, like a lot of other science, this won't be limited to personal enjoyment and use by lucid dreamers. Apparently it won't be limited to dreams. If this literally is 'mind-reading' technology, I already foresee a lot of unsanctioned mind-reading occurring... unsanctioned in this case meaning unsanctioned by the thinker, and either being done illegally (brain haxor, man that would suck) or by governments (man that would suck). :shock: Yikes.

Overall I don't like this. Our brains and thoughts are our only truly, mostly private possessions. This is like the verita serum of our world (;)), if it's legit and going to be developed further into a tool. Too many risks to offset the benefits.

If all that was recorded from my dreams was vision, and the other senses were eliminated, that wouldn't be so bad. Vision isn't the only component to a dream, and without the others a lot of meaning is lost.

And if they get around that, and the quality is good enough... uh oh! There goes the porn industry! (and most of the rest of the film industry)

Yes, yes, I am thinking very very long term and with the max presence of corruption. Luckily, I would probably die before any of this occurs, if it does :tongue: Unfortunately, I will probably die before I can videotape my dreams.

That would be so cool to have!

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Originally Posted by seeker28

My dream videos would be naughty!

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Haha so would some of mine, I'd have to wait another year to turn 18 before I could watch some of mine again. Imagine the number of fake celebrity porno's out there too!

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Originally Posted by Dalek

Imagine the number of fake celebrity porno's out there too!

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Oh man... you know how some people think DCs are real, sentient beings? Makes me wonder if something like the aclu would get on that :tongue: I'd laugh.

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Originally Posted by Barbizzle

If this ever comes true, Lucid Dreamer will be the movers and the money makers of Hollywood. Everyone would rather hire a Lucid Dreamer then a Special effect artist :D

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If you got this machinery you could have your own movies and maybe sell them, but could they be deleted?

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Originally Posted by hypnotoad1579

Whoopee, another step towards loosing mental privacy! Damn I hate science sometimes.

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Exactly! While this is exciting, this worries me! Eventually, in say, 200 years, will our innermost thoughts be spied upon by foreign radar? :eek:

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Originally Posted by DreamQueen

Wow! Could be great for working out whether someone is innocent or guilty of a crime.

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Yikes! That scares me silly. :eek:

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Originally Posted by Shift

I dislike this idea. I've been dreaming (haha) about such technology since I was little and wanted to 'videotape my dreams'.

But, like a lot of other science, this won't be limited to personal enjoyment and use by lucid dreamers. Apparently it won't be limited to dreams. If this literally is 'mind-reading' technology, I already foresee a lot of unsanctioned mind-reading occurring... unsanctioned in this case meaning unsanctioned by the thinker, and either being done illegally (brain haxor, man that would suck) or by governments (man that would suck). :shock: Yikes.

Overall I don't like this. Our brains and thoughts are our only truly, mostly private possessions. This is like the verita serum of our world (;)), if it's legit and going to be developed further into a tool. Too many risks to offset the benefits.

If all that was recorded from my dreams was vision, and the other senses were eliminated, that wouldn't be so bad. Vision isn't the only component to a dream, and without the others a lot of meaning is lost.

And if they get around that, and the quality is good enough... uh oh! There goes the porn industry! (and most of the rest of the film industry)

Yes, yes, I am thinking very very long term and with the max presence of corruption. Luckily, I would probably die before any of this occurs, if it does :tongue: Unfortunately, I will probably die before I can videotape my dreams.

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Why are so many people unconcerned about this kind of stuff? Really, it's like the last thing we actually own, and soon we will own nothing. How can this be taken so lightly?!

Same, I think it's cool but the potential for misuse terrifies me! I don't see any good coming out of this in the long term. If people can use something to gain control/money/power, they will.

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Originally Posted by Parakonstantius

Yikes! That scares me silly. :eek:

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Why? What are your crimes?

lol people reading my mind don't scares me, especially since you can think so many things at once that the images they get would be nothing interesting <.<

When people look at an object, the eye's retina recognises an image that is converted into electrical signals which go into the brain's visual cortex.
The team, led by chief researcher Yukiyasu Kamitani, succeeded in catching the signals and then reconstructing what people saw.

Err....

So let me get this straight.

You look at an object, signals are made, the machine 'catches' the signals. And the machine reconstructs what you saw.

Um. Then how can it read your mind? Sounds like it just reading signals that are on their way to your mind.

When you dream, are signals sent from your eye to your brain? I dunno. Technically you aren't 'seeing' anything, its all already in your head, so maybe no signals are needed, therefore the machine wouldn't pick it up.

To me it sounds like you have to actually be physically looking at the object at the time of the machine reading you so that it can pick up your 'signals'. Doesnt sound like mind reading, it sounds like 'signals-being-sent-to-the-brain'-reading, to me :p

...succeeded in catching the signals and then reconstructing what people saw.

It says 'saw', not 'thought'. Right?

There are going to have to be laws governing this sort of machinery. Would something need to be attached to the head to enable people to read your thoughts. There are people who can read other peoples thought without this machinery already.

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Originally Posted by Paradox-db3

I find this whole "dream screen" a bit off. After all, it's our brains which are interpretting the signals and turning them into images. In order to actually record a dream so that someone could watch it, the computer, which picks up brain wave activity or dream activity if you will, would have to interpret the signals the same way the individual's brain does. And I'm no brain sergeon (or even spelling sergeon for that matter!) but I would think that your "mind's eye" interprets certain signals differently than mine does. Therefore, a computer would have to generate its own images, which may look nothing like the dream.

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You are right. It was a programming game. They needed to identify brain signals associated with 400 images before being able to pick up the word "neuron." Think of how many signals you'd need to identify for the computer to recognize a color, a 3-D image, and action. As you said, this would all have to be personalized.

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Originally Posted by Pegasis

There are going to have to be laws governing this sort of machinery. Would something need to be attached to the head to enable people to read your thoughts. There are people who can read other peoples thought without this machinery already.

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At least you know who is doing it then. Once this technology is readilly availabe ANYONE could be doing it!

Misleading article imo.

As exciting as this may seem, it can go "wrong" easily. New interogation methods, police monitoring your thoughts etc.

Or you can just call me a paranoid conspiracy theorist... It is in the development stages anyway.

Cool, futuristic technology though!

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Originally Posted by Abra

You are right. It was a programming game. They needed to identify brain signals associated with 400 images before being able to pick up the word "neuron." Think of how many signals you'd need to identify for the computer to recognize a color, a 3-D image, and action. As you said, this would all have to be personalized.

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Hmm... Couldn't you just put the signal-reading device in, and make it output what it reads into someone else's visual nerve? You could have the reader just watch the dream firsthand and dictate what they see to a scribe. (This assuming everyone uses similar signals, if every individual person has their own code then you would definitely hit a few obstacles.)

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Originally Posted by Shift

I dislike this idea. I've been dreaming (haha) about such technology since I was little and wanted to 'videotape my dreams'.

But, like a lot of other science, this won't be limited to personal enjoyment and use by lucid dreamers. Apparently it won't be limited to dreams. If this literally is 'mind-reading' technology, I already foresee a lot of unsanctioned mind-reading occurring... unsanctioned in this case meaning unsanctioned by the thinker, and either being done illegally (brain haxor, man that would suck) or by governments (man that would suck). :shock: Yikes.

Overall I don't like this. Our brains and thoughts are our only truly, mostly private possessions. This is like the verita serum of our world (;)), if it's legit and going to be developed further into a tool. Too many risks to offset the benefits.

If all that was recorded from my dreams was vision, and the other senses were eliminated, that wouldn't be so bad. Vision isn't the only component to a dream, and without the others a lot of meaning is lost.

And if they get around that, and the quality is good enough... uh oh! There goes the porn industry! (and most of the rest of the film industry)

Yes, yes, I am thinking very very long term and with the max presence of corruption. Luckily, I would probably die before any of this occurs, if it does :tongue: Unfortunately, I will probably die before I can videotape my dreams.

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I totally agree.

Even if we could ever reach this sci-fi level of technology and this article wasn't misleading and presumptuous, I have another con to add to the growing list of cons. Personally, I feel like dreams are too special to simply be recorded for every average Joe to see. Their elusiveness and difficulty to capture are part of their whole reward, and part of what is supposed to strengthen us mentally is the challenge of becoming lucid or recording our dreams on pencil and paper/other media. It's the only thing that is entirely our own, that no one else can reach, and we should definitely keep it that way.

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Originally Posted by Licity

Hmm... Couldn't you just put the signal-reading device in, and make it output what it reads into someone else's visual nerve? You could have the reader just watch the dream firsthand and dictate what they see to a scribe. (This assuming everyone uses similar signals, if every individual person has their own code then you would definitely hit a few obstacles.)

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Better idea:

Have the machine record the signals, and instead of trying to translate them to a screen, feed them back into the visual nerve of the individual. You don't have to mess around with decoding anything, privacy of thought remains intact, and We the Dreamers get what we want: the ability to replay our dreams.

I just finished watching paprika this morning and now i see this.

Im kinda scared.

So you could have lots of fun with it. You could also use it for things like interigation if you could implant images into people. And what happens if you're dream sharing, then loss control and it becomes a nightmare :P The client won't be very happy.

I like the idea of being able to generate your dreams on a computer image screen. I haven't read the entire article, but if that's what the technology is aiming to do, I am all for it. This kind of technology is not something to be feared, but rather something that could have many positive implications in numerous fields of activity. We could have a whole new form of "art", where the paintbrush is your mind's eye and the canvas is the computer screen. We could have a more sophisticated form of surveillance, where your brain is used as a camera and other people can see what you see as a form of enhanced security. Hell, you could even use this to see how animals can see, and possibly find lost pets just by flicking on a computer screen and seeing what they're looking at. Why is this technology met with so much apprehension? Sure, the potential for abuse is there, but that's just a fact of life. Everything can be used in a good way, and that's why we intend to make regulations and laws to make sure that that's the only way they're used.

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Originally Posted by DeeryTheDeer

I totally agree.

Even if we could ever reach this sci-fi level of technology and this article wasn't misleading and presumptuous, I have another con to add to the growing list of cons. Personally, I feel like dreams are too special to simply be recorded for every average Joe to see. Their elusiveness and difficulty to capture are part of their whole reward, and part of what is supposed to strengthen us mentally is the challenge of becoming lucid or recording our dreams on pencil and paper/other media. It's the only thing that is entirely our own, that no one else can reach, and we should definitely keep it that way.

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No one tells you that you have to show your recorded dreams to anyone. If you really feel like this then you shouldn't have an online dream log either.

Eeek! That would be cool, but not until I move out of the house ;D

Imagine my mom being able to watch what I dream... that would suck. But it would be AWESOME for dream recall... wait... we wouldn't need dream recall last DD:

Noooooooo I love dream recalllllllllll.

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

How funny,
I've had the idea of inventing something that would record dreams since I was a little kid. The people around me always told me they thought it was an incredible idea, but with my current ambitions, I'm very glad that there are other people hard at work at creating that invention instead of me. I wish them the best of luck and hope for a total success. Such an invention would be one of the most amazing things I could ever hope to own.

Obviously, if released to the public there will need to be laws processed restricting its uses and managing its capabilities. There are many people who are paranoid of 'the government' monitoring their thoughts and dreams. With an ability as powerful as recording dreams, extreme responsibility will be required without a doubt.

O-Suchin

I've always wished for a breakthrough like this... I hope this is truly possible!

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Originally Posted by Robot_Butler

Why bother with the monitor? Wouldn't it be easier to redirect the signals to another person's brain? How cool would that be!! Shared dreaming here we come!

DC Mini anyone?

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What would be much more interesting, would be to direct dreams into your brain, that instantly trigger lucidity, like a bunch of people telling you that you're dreaming, and once the machine registers a rise in whatever brainactivity, it will turn off.

That would be cool. What if you could program your own dream before you went to sleep? I could be like an awesome video-game.

http://www.pinktentacle.com/2008/12/...ly-from-brain/

It may not be immediately apparent why I put this here, but after reading the article, the reason should be clear...

Move it if you must...

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Originally Posted by metcalfracing

http://www.pinktentacle.com/2008/12/scientists-extract-images-directly-from-brain/

It may not be immediately apparent why I put this here, but after reading the article, the reason should be clear...

Move it if you must...

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Someone beat you to it.

I'll combine this post with the other thread, because this one seems to have a little more info on it.

Can anyone find the actual paper (Visual Image Reconstruction from Human Brain Activity using a Combination of Multiscale Local Image Decoders) (for free)? Neutron wants you to buy a prescription. I'd quite like to read it.

BRB, getting a Faraday cage installed in my skull.

Wow. Its been a long time since a thread in this section got so big.

Hmm. This is a little deceptive I'm afraid. Recently there have been a few studies in this exact vein completed around the world, some of them going back many years, with the original goal of understanding where epileptic siezures originate. What they've been finding instead is that through magnetic resonance imaging they can literally make a simple map of where memories are created and then later recalled by recognizing when the precise neurons are refiring again. Of course this is wonderful news regardless. The evidence certainly seems to support the theory that when recalling something, you literally recreate the sensory experience in your brain, refiring the neurons originally devoted to experiencing and ultimately retaining that information, much like an indexed hard drive, which would explain why lucid dreaming is so indescernable from waking life. However, with this Japanese study, I only gather that they have a way of mapping where you stored which image of which letter, and not a way of discerning complex, deeply held recollections or experiences within a dream. Essentially, it sounds no different than what's already been discovered, just kind of marketed like some amazing sci fi breakthrough. The underlying point is- they showed them a series of photographs and mapped where the neurons were firing. It was controlled. No way as I see it to recognize subjective images or memories unless everything you ever experienced was in a laboratory while hooked up to an MRI. In other words, each of our personal neural networks of memories are like unindexed hard drives, so we'd have no way of knowing what was being accessed, only the physical location of which neurons were firing. Sorry if this ruins the excitement.

I have thought about this, when I learned about Rapid Eye Movement, (R.E.M) where the person was dreaming, I wanted it to be recordible what they were dreaming.

If this thing works someday like I hope it will, I will be the richest porn movie maker. *smirk*

I hope that one day we can use this to convict criminals swiftly and with 100&#37; proof, then reinstate the death penalty with no room for courtroom lies and drama.

'Till they start taking away your privacy. :banana:

Just you wait, Boy At School Who Called Me Crazy For Lucid Dreaming, until I can show you! :)

...eventually...

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Originally Posted by Timothy Paradox

'Till they start taking away your privacy. :banana:

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I demand you change your signiture to change Greenday as the person who made that quote =P

Plus, I knew you were going to say that, infact next time ill write it underneath using my Timothy handpuppet...

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Originally Posted by Dizko

When people look at an object, the eye's retina recognises an image that is converted into electrical signals which go into the brain's visual cortex.
The team, led by chief researcher Yukiyasu Kamitani, succeeded in catching the signals and then reconstructing what people saw.

Err....

So let me get this straight.

You look at an object, signals are made, the machine 'catches' the signals. And the machine reconstructs what you saw.

Um. Then how can it read your mind? Sounds like it just reading signals that are on their way to your mind.

When you dream, are signals sent from your eye to your brain? I dunno. Technically you aren't 'seeing' anything, its all already in your head, so maybe no signals are needed, therefore the machine wouldn't pick it up.

To me it sounds like you have to actually be physically looking at the object at the time of the machine reading you so that it can pick up your 'signals'. Doesnt sound like mind reading, it sounds like 'signals-being-sent-to-the-brain'-reading, to me :p

...succeeded in catching the signals and then reconstructing what people saw.

It says 'saw', not 'thought'. Right?

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no, the point of the experiment was to make sure the device could interpret signals correctly. These same signals that your brain receives are the ones the machine received, so they are saying they have the same conversion your brain goes through in this computer. Now, since they know that works right, they can start trying to pick up signals from your brain and convert those as well, since your brain has to go though a signal converting process for thoughts too.

great article, great idea...kind of impractical but Im excited to see how it develops.

Oh My God.... Ok someone in the 'who here is not a druggie' just mentioned Idiocracy, so I watched it. I fear now that it is coming true.
GUYS, READ THE ARTICLE!

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Originally Posted by Dizko

Misleading article imo.

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No it's not misleading. It says what it is. They got people to look at some images for 12 seconds. The computer (fMRI) mapped the blood flow changes in their brain. NOW when they think of the images again, the computer recognises the blood flow changes that correlated to the image.

E.G I look at the number 4. Pattern A happens.
I look at the number 3. Pattern B happens.

The computer records the patterns of blood flow through the fMRI.

Next time I think of the number 4 the computer looks at the blood flow through the fMRI and realises I am looking at number 4 because the blood flow is Pattern A and not Pattern B.

This is ALL that is happening. They are not going to be able to show visuals of dreams using this technique it would be way to complex.

Cummon guys, I'm drunk and I could understand that perfectly!

I just found something amazing on just this subject! This is purely amazingly fantastical how similar it is to the things in this subject! http://smotri.com/video/view/?id=u8041270d7f

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Originally Posted by Vorquel

Perhaps the next step will be preprogrammed dreams, or the Matrix. Dang. That was fast.

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Vorquel what do you mean "that was fast"??????

But that would be sweet. Making your own matrix, with your own laws and physics. That would make you the architect just like off the movie lol. And have other people play in it. Or program your own dream video games, damn i can see total virtual reality ( gaming inside your mind ) would be possible real soon.

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Originally Posted by HaRd_WiReD

Vorquel what do you mean "that was fast"??????

But that would be sweet. Making your own matrix, with your own laws and physics. That would make you the architect just like off the movie lol. And have other people play in it. Or program your own dream video games, damn i can see total virtual reality ( gaming inside your mind ) would be possible real soon.

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What about virtual prisons? Virtual torture? You can torture and kill people in the most complicated and painful ways possible - over and over again...
Sounds fun, no.
*sarcasm* :roll:
Maybe lock people in a virtual jail after erasing their memory - and give them the most shitty life ever.

Great inventions are usually corrupted...
Airplanes! Woo we can fly! ---> and bomb stuff, and shoot each other IN THE AIR!!
Nuclear energy!! Clean energy! ----> Yes! Now we can kill millions, many innocents, with just one bomb!!
etc
etc
...

Wow, this is a dream come true. I hope tihs actually developes enough when I'm still young so I could try it out. (or at least not dead yet!)

But yeah, when i was little I would daydream about there being a machine where I could put something on my head and plug it into my TV and I could watch my dreams and show my family how awesome and powerful they were.

Those were good days but now, this is just too great that they're actually making something that does this!

Imagine George Orwell's 1984 with this technology. Yikes.

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Originally Posted by Timothy Paradox

Great inventions are usually corrupted...
Airplanes! Woo we can fly! ---> and bomb stuff, and shoot each other IN THE AIR!!
Nuclear energy!! Clean energy! ----> Yes! Now we can kill millions, many innocents, with just one bomb!!
etc
etc
...

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Lol, IN THE AIR!. Nice one.

Anyway, did nobody read my drunk reply? Everything your assuming about this technology is WAY off.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Timothy Paradox

What about virtual prisons? Virtual torture? You can torture and kill people in the most complicated and painful ways possible - over and over again...
Sounds fun, no.
*sarcasm* :roll:
Maybe lock people in a virtual jail after erasing their memory - and give them the most shitty life ever.

Great inventions are usually corrupted...
Airplanes! Woo we can fly! ---> and bomb stuff, and shoot each other IN THE AIR!!
Nuclear energy!! Clean energy! ----> Yes! Now we can kill millions, many innocents, with just one bomb!!
etc
etc
...

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Sad but very true. :(

cool, the first times i was lucid i started to thing how i can show the things i saw to my friends.
"i'll take a picture. wait, the camera is no longer there when i wake up, damn!"
pretty awsome to be able to watch others dream. then you can wake them up if they have nightmares :D

Too bad we CAN'T see peoples dreams.

if this technology gets completed...

HOLY F*CK

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Originally Posted by hypnotoad1579

Whoopee, another step towards loosing mental privacy! Damn I hate science sometimes.

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It's nice to know I'm not the only one. I hate how fast technology changes.

There really are a lot of people that would love to threw people in jail for thought crimes.

here's a couple of good reads, seems they're getting closer...
http://www.livescience.com/health/05...tal_brain.html
http://www.livescience.com/health/05...interface.html

from the second one:
"In 2003, researchers at Duke University taught rhesus monkeys to consciously control the movement of a real time robotic arm using only feedback from a video screen and their thoughts. The monkeys appeared to operate the robotic arm as if it were their own limb.

A team led by neurobiologist Miguel Nicolelis implanted a tiny array of brain-signal-detecting microelectrodes in the monkey's brain. They trained the monkey with a joystick that moved a cursor on a screen, and, once the monkey had mastered that task, the robotic limb was added to the feedback loop. After a few days, the monkey realized the connection between moving the cursor and moving the arm.

Once that connection was established, the researchers removed the joystick. The monkey slowly figured out that it could still move the cursor and robotic arm by moving its own arm. After a few days without the joystick, the monkey realized that it could move the robotic arm without moving its own.

It had mastered a neuroprosthetic limb. "

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Originally Posted by dearly

Here's the technical breakdown if anyone's interested:

http://www.mediafire.com/?gmlefuzunng

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wow, thanks!!!


really cool, I will have to give it a read sometime.

Awesome!
Would definitely come in handy for those nights when you wake up and can't remember what the person in your dream looks like.

Absolute far cry.

These 400 pictures were most likely the alphabet shown in different styles, colours, and sizes to arrive at a mean neural response for each letter - albeit with noise.

They then showed volunteers the six letters in the word 'neuron' and succeeded in reconstructing the letters on a computer screen by measuring their brain activity.

It is obvious here that each letter of the word 'neuron' was shown individually. Then, it's likely that the neural response from each observed letter was compared to the mean neuron response calculated from the previous pictures.

If the word was shown in itself, however, then the neural response pattern would have differed greatly, and they wouldn't have been able to reconstruct the word. The problem lies in the reconstruction order, and quite simply, the general compilation.

Ultimately, their technology did not reconstruct the word 'neuron', it simply matched neural activity of individual simple stimuli, i.e. letters, to previous neural activity that was elicited by, most likely, letters. The experimenter's knew what they were looking for, and thus had only to match neural activity.

Sensory experiences do not produce invariant neural displays, and therefore, such technology is useless.

(ps. I haven't read the original article, so this is speculation).

great, This could be bad.
think, someone's watching your recorded dream (non lucid, sex dream!)
that would be horrific :(
or something embarrassing like going to work/school with no pants on.

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Originally Posted by Creation X

great, This could be bad.
think, someone's watching your recorded dream (non lucid, sex dream!)
that would be horrific :(
or something embarrassing like going to work/school with no pants on.

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That's only embarrassing if you're stupid enough to show your dreams to them.

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Originally Posted by John11

I never knew we were anywhere near being able to do something like this. This is extremely exciting news. It has always been my dream to have a machine that could record dreams.

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Same.... i think its a premonition. A lot of people i know have said that too. I first thought of it in public school when i was about 7...

I didn't think that we were this advanced! Well that's Japan for you.

...God I wish that I was Japanese... or Romanian... :P

But it'd suck to have someone else see... :eek:

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Originally Posted by Timothy Paradox

That's only embarrassing if you're stupid enough to show your dreams to them.

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My thoughts exactly.

I think it'd be awesome to have a kind of "video-recorded" DJ, so that I could watch what happened, the way it happened, rather than have to rely on my own memory based on my writings (and I must stress that human memory is NOT like a video recorder whatsoever, so some of the things I 'remember' from my dreams could really be misremembered).

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Originally Posted by Quark

Absolute far cry.

These 400 pictures were most likely the alphabet shown in different styles, colours, and sizes to arrive at a mean neural response for each letter - albeit with noise.

They then showed volunteers the six letters in the word 'neuron' and succeeded in reconstructing the letters on a computer screen by measuring their brain activity.

It is obvious here that each letter of the word 'neuron' was shown individually. Then, it's likely that the neural response from each observed letter was compared to the mean neuron response calculated from the previous pictures.

If the word was shown in itself, however, then the neural response pattern would have differed greatly, and they wouldn't have been able to reconstruct the word. The problem lies in the reconstruction order, and quite simply, the general compilation.

Ultimately, their technology did not reconstruct the word 'neuron', it simply matched neural activity of individual simple stimuli, i.e. letters, to previous neural activity that was elicited by, most likely, letters. The experimenter's knew what they were looking for, and thus had only to match neural activity.

Sensory experiences do not produce invariant neural displays, and therefore, such technology is useless.

(ps. I haven't read the original article, so this is speculation).

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Finally, someone else gets it!
Unfortunately everyone is ignoring these logical posts for some reason. I guess they secretly want this to happen.

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Originally Posted by ExoByte

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...ch-screen.html



More links, from duplicate threads by other members that were merged into this one:
http://www.mediafire.com/?gmlefuzunng
http://www.physorg.com/news148193433.html
http://gizmodo.com/5107377/new-techn...eams-on-screen
-Shift ;)

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Sounds cool, but it would totally ruin the fun of having dreams, especially lucid dreams. The fun of lucid dreaming wouldn't be as fun if you could check out what you dreamt later
:eek:

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Originally Posted by Walms

yay! That sounds so cool, now to wait for the device to be complete, then public... then to arrive here, and then to get a better comp that can actually record a movie withouth extreme lag <.<

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Sooooo.... 2101?:D

OMFG!!! this is Awesome! though i found out about this from my brother like just 3 months ago. wanted to add my opinion. So exciting!!! just think no more having to improve dream recall! :bowdown: damn i love those crazy asians :lol: only japenese people would be crazy enough to think of this :P haha i could totally make my own movie when lucid :boogie: though its gonna be scary once they figure out how to read thoughts an shit.... but even with the drawbacks i believe its still worth it! think about it even though airplanes can do a lot of bad things (like dropping bombs) can you honestly say you'd rather they never been invented? if you can your lying! :P b/c of airplanes we can travel around the world without it taking like 2yrs.i guess what im trying to say is it can be good or bad depending on how people use it, an you cant control EVERYONE so there no doubt itll be used for some bad things buttt...theres no point in being paranoid about it :nono: or else youll miss out on the awesomeness of it :banana:

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Originally Posted by tommo

Finally, someone else gets it!
Unfortunately everyone is ignoring these logical posts for some reason. I guess they secretly want this to happen.

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Fixed it.

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Originally Posted by tommo

Finally, someone else gets it!
Unfortunately everyone is ignoring these logical posts for some reason. I guess they secretly want this to happen.

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Of course, your definition of "logical" seems to differ radically than that of some of the rest of us.

The definition of logical isn't subjective so mine is exactly the same as yours is if you know what it means.

So if you do I'm guessing you just misread the article or just took what everyone else said as gospel. Either way you have become fallen into a logical fallacy and you FAIL!

Thats Cool! Its amazing how far technology has advanced in 100 years.

dream journals will be rendered useless.

why do the Japanese seem to accomplish everything first?

assuming that people's brain activity scans react similarly to the same images, sounds, etc, then I can believe that this is a reality.

after thinking about it, it's scary how predictable the human brain may be.

That would be awesome for people to see your dreams. I would love to record mine and play them back.:biggrin:

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Originally Posted by AirRick101

why do the Japanese seem to accomplish everything first?

assuming that people's brain activity scans react similarly to the same images, sounds, etc, then I can believe that this is a reality.

after thinking about it, it's scary how predictable the human brain may be.

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Yes the brain is predictable. However we can't predict it, not yet anyway.
And they didn't say whether everybody's mental response to it was the same. I'm assuming it wasn't. So to predict someones future behaviour you would have to analyse their whole brain using this method. Everything they've ever learned. Then you'd have to follow them around programming everything they see into a mega super fast computer to predict how they could react to any stimuli.

But in theory, yes the brain is predictable. For instance a child psychologist back in the 1950's or some time around that, I can't remember exactly, and a few other people have done studies (really undercover sort of ones, like shit you see in movies lol) where they separate two identical twins at birth and don't tell the parents or anything.

They found that most of them, when meeting up 30-40 years down the track, are surprised at how similar they and their lives are. Like same jobs and past jobs, or at least the same field. They have the same gestures etc. that we usually assume are uniquely our own. Basically VERY similar personalities. And the scientists gathered from this data that genes are responsible for as much as 70-80% of who we are. Whereas it was previously thought genetics and environment shared the role 50-50.

It's quite interesting but really holds no importance. So no it's not scary. You can just keep playing the game even if you know it's somewhat predetermined. And you CAN change your mind extensively if you try. But I s'pose you were always gonna do that from the beginning anyway. HAHA
Never know.... that's what makes it interesting. And nobody will ever be able to tell anybody which of their actions happened because of genes or environment. Unless you're an identical twin....

So take what you will from that and apply it to this experiment. Or maybe it won't make sense since everyone has chosen to mis-read it, save about 3 people including myself. Meh, your loss.

My dreams would make the best movies ever. I have actually had dreams where I've "watched" entire films that were effortlessly made up by my subconscious and they were some of the most interesting things I've ever seen. If only I could channel that creativity in my waking life, I might be making millions by now...:roll:

Reminds me of the movie, Paprika, where scientists develop a device to see inside people's dreams.

In the movie, terrorists get a hold of it and tinker with it so it can put images in the brain and then they go around driving people insane with dreams. Hopefully, that won't happen in real life.

i don't want a scientist reconstructing or seeing my dreams..its mine, for my own personal viewing, mabye they could start putting commercials in your dreams soon( this happened on a futurama episode)

This is awesome, i guess 30-40 years down the road they'll come out with the first Dream recorder for a few thousand bucks.

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Originally Posted by Walms

yay! That sounds so cool, now to wait for the device to be complete, then public... then to arrive here, and then to get a better comp that can actually record a movie withouth extreme lag <.<

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There probably wouldn't be that much lag with todays hardware. With the new Intel i7 processors, those things can do just about anything >3

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Originally Posted by dostoevskyblue

i don't want a scientist reconstructing or seeing my dreams..its mine, for my own personal viewing, mabye they could start putting commercials in your dreams soon( this happened on a futurama episode)

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Sometimes i think science goes too far :? i think we all know too much ahh my brain i wonder what they will use this for.

To the people who are worried about this being a problem: Have you seen an MRI machine? They're huge! Not to mention you have to stay completely still and not be wearing metal for them to work. I wouldn't be too worried about people recording your dreams without you knowing.

And about reversing the technology to advertise: Assuming they use this technology, they would have to somehow stimulate each little square of the visual cortex individually. I can't think of any way that would be possible without brain surgery, and I think you'd notice that too. And if you let them do surgery on you, then, well, make sure you have a good lawyer. =P

Sweet

Personally, in my opinion, that would suck.

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Originally Posted by Muggler

Personally, in my opinion, that would suck.

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Why?

Crazy that someone bumps this right after I read this:
http://www.cnn.com/2009/TECH/09/25/b...red/index.html

They're getting closer :shock:

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Originally Posted by Shift

Oh man... you know how some people think DCs are real, sentient beings? Makes me wonder if something like the aclu would get on that :tongue: I'd laugh.

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This brings up an interesting possibility. If there are people who share dreams, appearing in other peoples dreams as dreasm characters, than the ability to record dreams would prove this, right?

I mean, you'd see the same things, just from different points of view.

Neat. :D

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Originally Posted by John11

Crazy that someone bumps this right after I read this:
http://www.cnn.com/2009/TECH/09/25/b...red/index.html

They're getting closer :shock:

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The analyzing internal speech and saying it out loud part sounds interesting. That could be handy if you're mute.

I'm confused though. First they say that they're not just picking the image from a set, then they say that they are... Oh wait, I get it. Now they're choosing which image it is without knowing what the subject's brain looks like when seeing the picture beforehand.

Didnt read everyones post so forgive me if im not the first to think of this...

Why only dreams??? As an artist i would love to be able to visualize something and have it draw on a screen or directly to the observers eyes. Like Vulcan Mindmeld man :)

Cool but scary stuff...

FunK

Pardon me if this was asked before in this thread, but where are the images that people's brains projected on to screens? Shouldn't they be in the article?

WakingNomad: The first article had a picture of "neuron" spelled out, if I remember correctly. I also found a youtube video awhile back that showed the actual screen as the people looked at various things; I'll see if I can find it again.

Some seem to be worried that people will be monitoring our dreams against our will. We all have phones, how many of your phones are being monitored by police/government/whatever? Surely if the technology ever becomes mainstream, there will be a way to secure it. How about a password into your brain/dream recordings, but you don't type it or anything, you imagine the password?

That would be intense. Your password could be like anything.

There'll probably be a better way for it to recognize that it's you, though.

I cannot wait for the technology to be released to the public. I am going to try to get is as soon as I can so I can watch my dreams.

Good luck with that zeldafreak. It probably won't be sold to the public for a loooong time, and once it is it'll probably be super expensive until it becomes mainstream, if it ever does. Besides, fMRI machines are huge.