http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PQAc...eature=related
what do you think?
could this be used somehwo to induce lucid dreaming?
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PQAc...eature=related
what do you think?
could this be used somehwo to induce lucid dreaming?
I doubt it. Seems like a waste of time to me - it wasn't a real OBE, just a simulation. What's the point? Doesn't really shed any light on why OBEs occur either - just gives us a little bit more insight as to what they're like, that's all.
Yeah, I just relized that also.
That's still kind of cool... I've always been skeptical about OBEs even though I've had them under the effects of psychedelics. Yesterday after reading this topic I had kind of a fucked up lucid dream/experience which kind of supported my position but it's hard to say... It would make sense that after reading this topic and thinking about it that I had the "dream" that I had though if you assume that they are self-induced I guess you'd say.
Lusense out of curiosity have you ever smoked salvia. The only time where I have had a strong drug induced OBE was on this plant.
Ya, over 60 times. One of the ones I have alot of experience with. I had a huge vial of 50x extract (legit) which I was using for a while but haven't done it in a while since. I used to do it randomly like 1 time a month because it kind of changes how you think about the world (although you gotta make sure your conclusions don't get too outta hand :lol:). There are 6 levels of trips and I think most people have lower level ones so they probably haven't experienced the full effects and understand how crazy those breakthrough trips can be where your consciousness is in another place and the like.
Some of the stuff seems too impossible to explain since it's so far beyond what you experience in daily life and those sensations make it an interesting experience.
I haven't gone stronger than 30x, but by itself I can't experience anything except a slight stonedness. If I smoke some bud first then I can get effects. The most interesting thing happened when I used a dissociative, then used salvia. I went into some kind of dream where I flew out my window and went underwater with some characters. I then thought wait, I'm just laying in my bed tripping out. And Voila, like that I was back and sitting with an empty waterfall bong in my hand.
That's my thought. Fooling input senses to have similar to an OBE versus no input senses and having an OBE... different things.Quote:
Doesn't really shed any light on why OBEs occur either - just gives us a little bit more insight as to what they're like, that's all.
Weird, even with 30x you should be getting pretty good trips depending what you do. There are alot of random factors that affect it as well (interpersonal, fatigue, etc.) Are you holding it in for long enough and taking a large hit? I noticed I got my best trips off a gravity bong or big bong and I'd take the biggest hit I could and hold it in then repeat and it like suddenly knocks your consciousness out alot of the time. I usually combined it with some bud as well but other combinations could work better I just didn't want to take away from the salvia high itself usually.
The true differences of OBE's and Lucid Dreaming can be noticed when experienced close together as accounted here by Robert Bruce:
Quote:
Lucid Dream Projection — Experience
The true differences between a lucid dream and an OBE only become fully apparent if both are
experienced very close together, which allows a fair comparison. Studying case histories simply
does not provide enough data to allow this. The following account of my first lucid dream
projection shows the effects of the resting position, while also highlighting what are some fairly
obvious differences between lucid dream projections, OBEs, and normal lucid dreams.
I awoke at about two in the morning, lying on my back with my whole body vibrating. I could feel
myself about to spontaneously project. My arms and legs were already starting to float out. However,
I did not want to project. I was tired and had a busy day ahead of me, and just wanted to go back to
sleep. I'd been having a very interesting dream up until then and wanted to go back into it if I could. I
felt heavy and sluggish but managed to roll onto my left side. The vibrations stopped immediately and
the heavy sinking feeling soon left me. Happy now, I snuggled down and relaxed back into myself,
concentrating on the dreamscape I had just left and the name I had given it: "Advantage". I hoped this
would take me back into it, as this trick often seemed to work.
After only a few seconds, I popped directly into the dream I'd left earlier. The transition was
breathtaking. There was a full continuance of waking consciousness. I did not fall asleep and then
wake up within the dream, but projected directly into it from the full waking state. I suddenly appeared
in a busy, brightly lit department store, just like the one I'd been dreaming of earlier.
In front of me, a dark-haired young woman was setting up a dining room display. I saw people
everywhere, shopping, serving, packing shelves, etc. Everything looked and felt real, stable, and
solid. It was simply mind-blowing! I jumped up and down few times to feel the weight of my body, then
pinched myself, "Ouch!" This hurt just as it would in real life, and my body weight felt normal. I was
fully dressed and could even feel the texture of my socks when I wiggled my toes inside my shoes.
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I glanced at my hands. They looked normal and did not melt. I tried creating an apple in my
hand, but nothing happened. The dreamscape I was in did not waver in the slightest. Curious, I
thought, in a normal lucid dream the environment can be altered and anything can be created by
imagining it. Regardless, I was fully aware that I was dreaming.
I walked over to the young woman and asked her what she was doing. She told me they were
getting ready for the big day, whatever that was. I picked up a large vase of flowers from the table in
the middle of her furniture setting. The china felt like real china and the flowers smelled like real
flowers. I pulled a rose petal off and ate it. It tasted dry, scented, and faintly bitter, just as a rose petal
should taste, but the taste did not linger in my mouth as it normally would, I tipped the vase and
splashed some of the water into my hand. It felt cold and wet, just like real water.
I braced myself, hoping that I was truly inside a lucid dream as I believed. I yanked the linen
tablecloth from under the main table setting in the display. It almost worked, but the vase and a
couple of plates smashed noisily on the floor. A few people looked, but no one seemed to care about
the breakage, not even the shop assistant whose display I had just ruined. She went on unpacking
and arranging things as if nothing had happened, shaking out another linen tablecloth as she busied
herself resetting the table.
More confident now, I walked down an aisle and pushed over several large pieces of cheaplooking
pottery from the top shelf, one at a time. I looked around to see if anyone noticed. These
made very loud smashing sounds and broken pieces flew in all directions. A few people looked over,
but no one seemed to care. Reassured by this, I walked over to the checkouts and jumped up onto
one of the benches. A few people looked at me, but no one seemed to care and no one said
anything.
I slipped back into my body and rolled onto my back thinking, "Wow! That was incredible ... so
real!" I fought to control my excitement and settled back into myself again, trying to get back into the
dream. This was getting really interesting. I held the store and its name in mind again and tried to sink
back into it, but to no avail. The vibrations started up again and I felt myself starting to project. This
time the projection reflex caught hold and buzzed me out of my body. I came to rest at the foot of my
bed. The house was dim and quiet as I floated around my bedroom deciding what to do. I took a
quick look at my hands. They looked strangely elongated and started melting away.
Not wanting to continue the OBE, I dove back into my body and opened my eyes. I lay there for
a moment, then closed my eyes and tried to get back into the dream. The vibrations started up again
and another wave of falling, floating heaviness came over me as I started projecting again. I fought it
off and rolled over onto my right side. The projection symptoms stopped, but I couldn't get back into
my dream. I rolled over onto my left side and settled back into myself again. This position felt much
better. Holding the image and name of the dreamscape in mind again, I soon found myself back
there.
I reappeared in the store where I had started during my last visit, several minutes ago. The
same shop assistant was busily setting up the same dining display. The vase I'd broken earlier was
whole again and back on the table where it had been earlier. I walked through the store, looking for
signs of damage from my earlier visit. Everything I had broken earlier was whole and back on the
shelves again. It was like nothing had ever happened. This was incredible! No matter what I did, the
scenario restored itself.
I slipped back into my body again and rolled over to my back, trying to settle myself and get
back into my dream. I think my excitement had interrupted it. The vibrations started again, so I rolled
over to my left side again. I was getting the hang of this now, and realized that projecting into the
dream was much easier from my left side. Settling back into myself and holding the store's image and
name in my mind again, I slipped back into the store. Everything was normal and I was back where I
had originally started from again, with the same young lady busily setting up her dining display. She
looked up and smiled as I waved, then happily went about her work. I decided to explore further afield
before anything else happened, and walked out past the service desk into the mall.
I walked for some time, exploring the huge mall. There were a fair number of people around.
Everyone seemed very busy shopping, or preoccupied with whatever they were doing. Of note, all the
children I saw were very quiet and well behaved, walking like polite little robots beside their mothers.
There was some light background organ music playing and the usual noise of people quietly bustling
about. A few people were talking on telephones here and there, but no one seemed to be chatting or
talking to each other. People answered when questioned, but their replies were uninteresting and not
very helpful. It seemed impossible to start a conversation that did not involve talking about the
person's immediate task at hand.
Everyone seemed to lack personality, like background characters in a movie. On the surface
this dreamscape was incredibly real, maybe too real, but beneath the surface it lacked something.
This looked like real life, but was definitely not the same type of real life I am familiar with.
I had decided to look for a way out of the mall and do some further exploring when I suddenly
felt weak and heavy. The strength flowed out of me and I felt like I was moving in slow motion. My
legs floated slowly upward as I fell ever so slowly to the floor, settling there weak and paralyzed.
People stepped over and around me as I lay there, but no one paid any attention to me. I felt like a
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child's balloon bobbing about on the floor. I was weak and heavy and could no longer feel the normal
weight of my body, nor could I feel the floor beneath me.
I slipped back into my body again, coming wide awake this time. I rolled over to my back and lay
there pondering the significance of these experiences. The vibrations did not start up this time,
probably because I was pretty much wide awake now. It was obvious to me that my resting position
had been affecting the different types of experiences I'd been having. I was far too excited and wide
awake by now to do any kind of further exploration with this phenomenon, so I gave up and went to
get a drink and record this experience in my journal.
The type of paralysis that occurred at the end of the above experience generally indicates the
physical body and mind are either too awake, too tense, or in the process of waking up. Tension in
the physical body will disempower, and often paralyze, any subtle bodies that are active at the time.