Hynagogic thought processes

I've sometimes found my stream of consciousness just before I fall asleep to be way more garbled, associative and irrational than my dreams. They mostly don't have the visual element of dreams, they're more like meandering thoughts mixed up with hynagogic sensations. But they switch over so many things and sometimes the concepts are just so bizarre than I have difficulty remembering them a second later (and if I do recognise how bizzare they are, it means I've woken up more and postpones sleep accordingly). My dreams are usually more stable and 'reasonable' even if still 'implausible'. I don't know. It slightly stranges me out. :shock:

I suppose it's possible that I do have a lot of dreams which have a similar speed, bizareness and messiness of flow but I forget those details and just remember the overal narrative structures which are much 'cleaner' etc...

I don't get this regularly, but I was wondering if anybody else has had similar experiences?

Yeah, i get this. I find it really enjoyable. Sometimes I have thoughts that are in other peoples voices. But always really random and funny.

This is a common occurence for me as well. Most of the time I like it because of how surreal it is to have my thoughts and senses melting together as they so please, but sometimes I get spooked when the thoughts become too bizzare - oftentimes this is related to some deja vu sensation, where the thought streams that I'm having in the hypnagogic stage seem to me as if I've thought them and felt them before, even though the thoughts are completely ridiculous. The detachment from reality and rationality can be disconcerting sometimes, but at other times really fun.

Wednesday, I as well find myself snapping out of it, but sometimes this can be useful. Allow me to share a tactic I sometimes use. The moment I snap toward reality, instead of thinking about anything, I just stare blankly into the darkness, and sometimes what happens is my prefrontal cortex engages slightly toward awareness, but not so much as to disengage the hypnagogic activity; it all depends on how passively you react to the reality snap. This passivity allows me to experience the hypnagogic illusions in a higher state of awareness.

As an example, I may be having some random scenario unfolding in a half-visual hypnagogic state where I am mostly unaware, and suddenly I will realize the nature of my thoughts, and there is a pulling sensation in my brain and a snapping of the visual field that signals the engagement of the prefrontal cortex. I'm sure you recognize this. If I were to even BEGIN to analyze what just happened, or to reflect on the scenario, the entire hypnagogic state would totally dissolve...the brain activity would reset. But just like a lucid dream that fades when you become excitable, if you relax and adopt a passive state, the lucid dream state will usually not dissolve, and you will find yourself still lucid in another scene or an FA. So what I would do is to immediately accept the reality snap and stare ahead and let the next thoughts, sensations, or visuals present themselves rather than using the prefrontal cortex engagement for thinking. This can lead to great hypnagogic experiences! With a sharper visual field, and sharper awareness, the hypnagogia may start to wash right back in in the form of vivid geometric forms or scenes, or other visual/sensory illusions. As I understand it, this is because you create a very temporary engagement of the prefrontal cortex without disengaging the activity in the parts of your brain that are responsible for hypnagogic activity.

Sometimes I experience such success with this that when I snap to reality and then look into the void, the faint light patterns will suddenly warp and swirl into glorious living, moving forms that are so brilliant in geometric form and color. This usually is accompanied by REM-like movements of my eyelids. I am by no means a professional at producing this state at will, but I have learned a little about it. Consistency is difficult, because it's hard to depend on our remembering how to react when we are moving out of such a rationally disengaged state, but if our reactions are ingrained through cognitive planning in the awake state, the brain is much more apt to default the passive reaction.

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Originally Posted by Matchbook

passivity allows me to experience the hypnagogic illusions in a higher state of awareness... the lucid dream state will usually not dissolve, and you will find yourself still lucid in another scene or an FA. So what I would do is to immediately accept the reality snap and stare ahead and let the next thoughts, sensations, or visuals present themselves rather than using the prefrontal cortex engagement for thinking. This can lead to great hypnagogic experiences! With a sharper visual field, and sharper awareness, the hypnagogia may start to wash right back in in the form of vivid geometric forms or scenes, or other visual/sensory illusions. As I understand it, this is because you create a very temporary engagement of the prefrontal cortex without disengaging the activity in the parts of your brain that are responsible for hypnagogic activity.

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I would love to develop this ability, primarily because I find the experience in itself wonderful, but also because it teaches mental discipline and mindfulness. As you say, prefrontal areas associated with analysis and judgement need to be kept in check - you need to just watch, feel and experience. I find keeping the balance difficult. Getting that right I think would also help with actually going to sleep, and generally help with life as too much analysis isn't healthy (analysis is too generous a word).

btw from just last night I realised I probably get it most of the time, it's just that I'm not being mindful of it, like dreaming.

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Originally Posted by vacant

Sometimes I have thoughts that are in other peoples voices. But always really random and funny.

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thats cool I only get that rarely, but when I do the voices are pretty random, just like other hallucinations I suppose. But I wonder about their randomness, or whether it's just that the connections are opaque to our minds... it's hard to make sense of them at any rate, for instance the names of people from my primary school were connected to a semi-clear toothbrush cup awash with sunlight... hmm

Yeah, I know what you mean by not remembering exactly what happened. Normally I can hear speech during this state, and very rarely can I remember the speech I hear, and on the rare occasion that I do, it is normally two people talking total nonsense to each other. Another very odd thing I get sometimes during HI is a sudden thump or clang sound in my imagination, which causes me to jump out of my skin and back into reality.

On another note, what Matchbook said is very interesting. I might have to try that myself sometime. :D

haha yes what is that jolt? I don't usually hear a noise but that sudden interruption/rush/tremor is very famiiliar...

lol apparently it's called a Hypnic jerk:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypnic_jerk

http://www.failedsuccess.com/index.p...p_hypnic_jerk/

The main explanation is about misinterpreted muscle relaxation. (and the irregular sleeping habits correlation matches my experience, e.g. I get it most with random naps). Is this what you were refering to? If so, it's interesting that 'audio' got mixed up with it.

Wednesday, how has your hypnagogia been lately? More smooth and under control?

Since you mentioned hypnic jerks, I thought I would add that I am currently writing a tutorial on dealing with hypnic jerks, hypnagogic disturbances, insomnia, and how to harness the hypnagogic state. I figure you might have an interest in it, though I must say it's long. I'll let you know when it's completed and posted. I'm not sure when yet...I need the inner feeling that nothing important is left out, and I haven't arrived at that yet.

I'm looking forward to that tutorial. If you are as articulate in it as you were in your previous posts, it's promising!

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Originally Posted by Matchbook

Wednesday, how has your hypnagogia been lately? More smooth and under control?

Since you mentioned hypnic jerks, I thought I would add that I am currently writing a tutorial on dealing with hypnic jerks, hypnagogic disturbances, insomnia, and how to harness the hypnagogic state. I figure you might have an interest in it, though I must say it's long. I'll let you know when it's completed and posted. I'm not sure when yet...I need the inner feeling that nothing important is left out, and I haven't arrived at that yet.

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Looking forward to it too. :-)

I haven't had much luck yet myself, probably due to exams which tend to effect my sleep and peace of mind. Although I am getting a ridiculous amount of REM it feels like.. oh and last night I had one of those jerks accompanied by a crescendo of noise which was cool.