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Man this is such a common question amongst lucid dreamers and potential lucid dreamers that I went ahead and wrote a full blog post on it: [please post the text instead of the link].
It's too bad that so many people get scared off from lucid dreaming from hearing some rumor, or having a run in with sleep paralysis.
Lucid dreaming occurs in a very real dimension. It is different from the physical realm we live in. Spirits and other entities good bad and indifferent can have influence on you in this realm they do not have in the physical world. My wife is a talented lucid dreamer but I asked her not to do it anymore after a frightening experience. The bible forbids us from performing witchcraft and sorcery because we are not designed to interact with the nonphysical realm so directly.
I'm confused. You told your wife not to, but you still practice it? Just saying.....
The Bible does forbid witchcraft and sorcery, which is normally written as communing with the dead or "pharmakeia" which would be where we get our term for "pharmacy" meaning using drugs for a "other-worldy feeling" It also has places with medicine in it, showing that it just doesn't want people to mess with things that do that, because like a lot of the bible, it is saying no to protect you, not trying to stop you from doing something fun. I do not see how realizing you are dreaming would suddenly make you into a different dimension. If you are in a different dimension when you are lucid, then you are in a different dimension every time you sleep, so if lucid dreaming is evil, then so is dreaming.Quote:
Originally Posted by FallenSoldiers
You have asked your wife not to lucid dream any more because it is witchcraft and you believe it is something that actually happens in a very real dimension, and yet recently you posted that most of your lucid dreams consist of having sex with hot girls?Quote:
Originally Posted by FallenSoldiers
And, since we dream every time we sleep (even though we don't always remember dreaming), then sleeping, by extension, is also evil. OH NOES! :chuckle:Quote:
Originally Posted by BrandonBoss
Witchcraft!! Attachment 6379
Was just about to cite the findings of a German study (which I got to get a hold of..), which found, that among the LDing 5-10 % of adults - mental health problems are found to a significantly less degree than in the non-LDing rest of the population.
I agree with Sageous - in esp. as I have not seen the data - it could be, that the more healthy do it more - having it easier or something - but maybe it is the LDing making them more sane also.
For example by dealing with nightmares and the problems underlying these.
Don't know - but good news anyway I find!
And it also seems like lucidity might be. The brains natural defense mechanism against nightmares. >_>
But it does put us in a nightmare itself, so why develop a mechanism to stop it? Maybe bcz the nightmare may be sometimes too much?Quote:
Originally Posted by BrandonBoss
Nightmares normally come in response to a waking fear or worry, I like how LeBarge talked about nightmares. He said that if your dream is this:
You walking down a street at night and you àre lost, you see a dark figure approaching.
Then you would have a couple reactions thanks to subconscious expectation. Most people would have:
You take off running and the figure chases you down. Since you are lost you trying to zigzag doesn't work, so you end up getting trapped and the figure approaches. He is missing a few fingers and his face is mutilated. You try to scream, but your throat is too dry. He pulls out a gun.
But an optimist would have something more like this.
Oh thank goodness!
"Do you know where I am?"
An old lady appears out of the shadows and smiles at you. "Of course I do." She takes you to a place for a nice meal and some tea and call you a cab.
Since our dreams are based on our fears and our expectations, it is really us that makes ourselves go through nightmares. The subconscious doesn't seem to be able to tell the difference between thoughts and experiences during the day, so it is normal for your thoughts (fears) to take place in some dreams rather than what youaactually experience from day to day.
makes lots of sense!
If I recall correctly, Laberge lbeled them mental schemas. I read ETWOLD. It's great، but one should also rely on new foundings too, it is kinda old dated. I especially loved the last chapter! That butterfly story was AWESOME!
Doesn't matter how old it is if it is the truth. Truth stays true. That is why Archimedes's tomb had Calculus on it way back when, and we use calculus now to program out machines. Truth doesn't change over the ages, unless something to do with that truth changes. Since we are still sleeping the exact same way as we were when it was made, then it still applies. We aren't all cryogenically frozen every night instead of just sleeping. :P
My favorite parts were creative problem solving, using it for art, and adventure (I think it called it wish fulfilment, like going to different universes in your head).
Of course. But some details turned out to be wrong, but they are minor details, that Laberge concluded, but don't really effect the general benifit and effectiveness of the book's contents.
One of them being that we don't remember LDs if our recall is bad, and may have a LD and not remember it. That is untrue, since we are aware in a LD, and the event is directly stored, and can be recalled later, using that memory, not the dreaming memory(the one that loses dreams quickly, if ever remembered!)
That's a cool idea, but flawed. Nightmares are evolutionary beneficial, so the brain would never create a natural defense mechanism against them. Besides, if lucid dreaming was a "natural" mechanism, then it would kick in much more often in people's nightmares, especially considering studies that show that a very high percentage of dream possess negative content.Quote:
Originally Posted by BrandonBoss
In the same way, while this makes perfect sense, it also only amounts (at best) at half the equation. Nightmares can be induced simply by sleep posture, acidic stomach, and other psychological factors. Besides, it's relevant to distinguish the several types of dreams, because N-REM dreaming doesn't seem to totally fit into the "fear and expectation" theory.Quote:
Since our dreams are based on our fears and our expectations, it is really us that makes ourselves go through nightmares.
And there's also stuff like this, who strengthen the argument ;) : Learning lucid dreaming and its effect on depression in undergraduatesQuote:
Was just about to cite the findings of a German study (which I got to get a hold of..), which found, that among the LDing 5-10 % of adults - mental health problems are found to a significantly less degree than in the non-LDing rest of the population.
Oooo. I had a hunch that the first one was wrong, but the second one is as well? *a bright light shines at the end of my tunnel*. (I dont care at all about being wrong, I don't want to be right all the time, just at the end of the day, after I have learned)
First. You are saying that nightmares are evolutionary beficial because they get us prepared for a dangerous situation right (I don't believe in evolution as you know), but if nightmares are beneficial to survival, then that is something interesting for me to look into more. :3
If I could find a way other than fear or lucidity to make a nightmare, then I might be able to lucid more. Could you send me a link to things that actually cause nightmares (please dont say cheese, that doesn't work). I have been lucid in every nightmare since I was young and someone told me to wake myself up from them. I had trouble waking up at first and spent some time knowing that it was a dream. Most everything that I have found that "induces nightmares" are old wive's tales, but if you have a way, please show me! ;)
Seems interesting! I think both are right. schemas and physical/psychological factors! ^^
Ya. Honestly, I'd agree with Brandon in his 2nd remark, because at some level he is indeed right: dream content seems to at least be influenced by our expectations/fears, aka, emotional memory. The deal is, being so many theories and variables lying around, it's hard to go on one specific direction without we stumbling according some aspects that don't fit the puzzle.Quote:
Originally Posted by LouaiB
That's why I'm also so curious to see the effects of lucid dreaming on mental health, and what exactly is causing those improvements, but I guess we need more studies ^^
Exactly my opinion!Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoth
And studies are lacking frequency and...what is it called?....Good standards...
Studies for lucid dreaming are normally lacking a control group and really lack a good conclusion. They could all be chalked up to expectation since we aren't doing them correctly. :/ I might have to look more into how to have nightmares.
Nightmares are beneficial? How exactly? How is illogical fear beneficial? It kills mind, therefore it is detrimental.
I don't remember last time I had bad dream... What was my worst nightmare I had? Someone would maybe say that being shot or cut by knife to death is a nightmare, and while I had that maybe 3 times through my life, it wasn't nightmarish for me. When I was shot down I actually make it to LD, I was just tired of dying and it occurred to me that I don't need... I simply stood and walked away through wall. And that made aware of dreaming. I most dislike dreams where there is chaos and lack of peace.
I'm training relaxation and concentration directed for mastering OBE from age of 12(I'm now 41). I created my own system out of autogenic training(I found in sci fi book Vladimir Paral: Valka s mnohozviretem, (War with manybeast)), found my own way... remembered and reproduced feelings, states of mind... I do meditations for nearly the same period of time(it came spontaneously with exercises)... Maybe that makes one immune to nightmares.
I seek for inner peace, for control of illogical impulses... I seek knowledge. I think, it is why my dreams are not something I fear. But I would exchange normal dreams for lucid one entirely if I would know how to do it. Lucid dreams are more ordered... Greater, stronger lucidity is for me better way to live than let it slip into imagination where I could get lost.
There are dangers in everything, but the benefits of lucid dreaming are definitely worth it.
It is "dangerous" to flirt with your crush as well, because he or she might not be interested or turn out to have a relationship, and this can make you feel rather bad for a while - but that doesn't mean that we should never show sexual feelings for anyone.
Also, saying that lucid dreams are "possibly dangerous" because they can turn into nightmares is a moot point, because ordinary dreams can also be nightmares, and lucid nightmares would in fact be less scary, because if you are lucid then you can at least change the nightmare into something different.
I think that the negative of feeling drained has to do with keeping your mind concious too much time, I think that a requierment needed for resting well is completely shutting your conciousness off.
Your consciousness does turn off pretty much completely during NREM.Quote:
Originally Posted by mowglycdb
And you are always conscious during REM while you dream anyway, that's why you can experience and remember dreams.
I have never felt drained from an LD, and talking with people like hukif and Oreo that have LDed alllllll night long, they dont seem to feel tired all the time or worn out. So this is kind of just a hypothesis without any substantial evidence, no good observations, and no experiments that have been run showing that this is the case.Quote:
Originally Posted by mowglycdb
I sometimes feel like the only reason why these sorts of rumours appear is because people might believe there has to be a catch somewhere, since lucid dreaming sounds "too good to be true".Quote:
Originally Posted by BrandonBoss
It's pretty sad that people have to feel that way towards lucid dreaming.
There is no golden rule in nature that says that anything that is precious and fantastic "must" be extremely hard to get and/or have horrible negative side effects.
There is, of course, the catch that you often compete over precious stuff with everyone else, but you don't need to stand in line or anything for lucid dreaming.
