Wild's and OBE's (Question)

How about you all shut up, and drop the subject? This is general discussion, not debate.
Whether or not OBEs are really spirit form or w/e you call it is real or not, let the "dreamer" decide.

There has been thousands of tests and studies that show they are real, and at the same time show they arent. There is NO 100% deciding proof indicating whether or not.

Soo.. How about we all stop arguing about it!!

Ultimately, what is the point of OBE and LDs? .. hmm.. ENJOYMENT! - Who cares whats what? Damn.'

Can we TRY to stick on topic to the guys thread?

Quote:

---

How about you all shut up, and drop the subject? This is general discussion, not debate.

---

How about you choosing not to read this thread if it offends you?

Quote:

---

Soo.. How about we all stop arguing about it!!

---

Argument? Seems like a discussion to me.

Quote:

---

Ultimately, what is the point of OBE and LDs? .. hmm.. ENJOYMENT! - Who cares whats what? Damn.'

---

Some people like discussing things that maybe dont interest you. Why is that such a problem for you?

Quote:

---

Can we TRY to stick on topic to the guys thread?

---

I dont see how we have deviated from the topic - the OP wanted to talk about WILDS and OBE's and that is what we are doing - its called a discussion.

Wow, 2 threads and 2 mod wanna-be's trying to keep everything in check. If you dont want to read, dont open the thread. If the mods want this conversation moved or stopped then let them decide.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AstralBeginning

You cant say I am wrong just because YOU have a lack of experience. Find out for yourself. Attempt OBE's.

As I mentioned either earlier in this thread or another thread - read a book called My Big TOE by Thomas Campbell. He is a nuclear physicist.

Dont make the mistake of assuming just because science hasnt yet discovered something that it is not there. Additionally, you would be wise to also not assume that things do not exist beyond which current science can pin down and put in a lab.

---

One nuclear physicist does not encompass the scientific community.

Science, using their radical "scientific method" (who needs that?), and their research (witchcraft!), can't find what physics have "known" for centuries? It's not like those physics would have anytime to gain from the ignorant masses, right? Okay, now I'm mocking you.

Oh sure I believe that their are things that humans just can't understand. However, those things are so far removed from our every day lives that their effects are hard to quantify (like quantum physics, and even there we can make plenty of good guesses). But the brain is a machine, like any other machine, and thus is something science can in fact analyze. Neurons are connected to other sensory/motor systems or other neurons. If it didn't come from one of your five sense then it came from other neurons (ie yourself). It's not like there's a few neurons plugged into a magical box that no one's sure where they go.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Siphorix

There has been thousands of tests and studies that show they are real, and at the same time show they arent. There is NO 100% deciding proof indicating whether or not.

---

There is? Alert the media! (I'm sure they've just had more important things to do)

To quote one of my older posts:

Quote:

---

I really really hate this debate. It reminds me of watching media coverage on controversial topics (ie global warming). Often there exists a clear scientific consensus on the issue but there is always some group, industry sponsored or whatever, who disputes this, as an attempt to remain unbiased (or biased) the media diligently supports both sides and labels it as controversial. After seeing both sides (no matter how factually inaccurate one side is) the public assumes that both arguments must be valid, deciding for themselves, thus making it controversial. Economists call this a self fulfilling prophecy. I'm sure you can see why.

---

However this only barely applies as this is the only place I ever have to debate this. I'd say it's nearly universally accepted everywhere else.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SystemsLock

One nuclear physicist does not encompass the scientific community.

Science, using their radical "scientific method" (who needs that?), and their research (witchcraft!), can't find what physics have "known" for centuries? It's not like those physics would have anytime to gain from the ignorant masses, right? Okay, now I'm mocking you.

Oh sure I believe that their are things that humans just can't understand. However, those things are so far removed from our every day lives that their effects are hard to quantify (like quantum physics, and even there we can make plenty of good guesses). But the brain is a machine, like any other machine, and thus is something science can in fact analyze. Neurons are connected to other sensory/motor systems or other neurons. If it didn't come from one of your five sense then it came from other neurons (ie yourself). It's not like there's a few neurons plugged into a magical box that no one's sure where they go.



There is? Alert the media! (I'm sure they've just had more important things to do)

To quote one of my older posts:



However this only barely applies as this is the only place I ever have to debate this. I'd say it's nearly universally accepted everywhere else.

---

SystemLock it must be so great for you to be so intelligent to know things as fact without actually putting effort in. I applaud you, I think you should write a book.

At the end of the day, I care not one iota if you or anyone else believes in OBE, but from PERSONAL experience I have both had OBE's and verified them. Take from this what you will, but I again suggest you start gathering your OWN evidence - not reading things on the internet or forming thoughts which seem rational, but actually testing this stuff out.

I am honestly tired of repeating myself to people too ignorant to look beyond their limited vision of the world - all I am saying is that without experience you CANNOT KNOW and I suggest you gain your own experience before making an idiot of yourself by arguing about something you know nothing about.

I can provide any help to anyone who would like to gain their own experiences rather than those happy to just sit there with their thumbs up their arses reciting things based on belief and not experience; so if you want to see for yourself, let me know :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AstralBeginning

SystemLock it must be so great for you to be so intelligent to know things as fact without actually putting effort in. I applaud you, I think you should write a book.

At the end of the day, I care not one iota if you or anyone else believes in OBE, but from PERSONAL experience I have both had OBE's and verified them. Take from this what you will, but I again suggest you start gathering your OWN evidence - not reading things on the internet or forming thoughts which seem rational, but actually testing this stuff out.

I am honestly tired of repeating myself to people too ignorant to look beyond their limited vision of the world - all I am saying is that without experience you CANNOT KNOW and I suggest you gain your own experience before making an idiot of yourself by arguing about something you know nothing about.

I can provide any help to anyone who would like to gain their own experiences rather than those happy to just sit there with their thumbs up their arses reciting things based on belief and not experience; so if you want to see for yourself, let me know :)

---

This has gotten out of hand. Agree to disagree, alright?

Let's just leave this thread in peace.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SystemsLock

Let's say for example OBEs and other astrological events are in fact possible.

---

please tell me what "OBE" and astrology has to do with eachother?

and quite honestly, in serious astral projection circles, "OBE" is often considered to be a misconception. i put it to you that these vivid lucid dreams you have are astral projections. dream = ld = ap. the only difference is the degree of conscious awareness you have.

you guys are just closed minded dicks who are unwilling to shift their perspective "slightly" and recognize that perhaps the old mystical teachings are a little off and misinterpreted. maybe if you talked to someone who was a dedicated astral projector you'd learn that they don't believe they're actually separating from their physical body and floating around like a ghost in the world of the living.

i mean don't you find the prospect of being able to sit down and induce an extremely real/vivid lucid dream whenever you want appealing?

a lot of good people have spent a lot of time trying to open the eyes of people like you who refuse to let go of old superstitions. you make it hard for people who have radical experiences to find help and an explanation.

disgusting and conceited people.

Quote:

---

I'm not mocking you, you're just wrong.

---

you are definitely mocking. you obviously think things of a "psychic" nature are bunk and you're equating this person's experience with something you think is silly. you're a bully and don't promote a welcome environment. what if someone is just confused about LD and think it's OBE or whatever else? maybe if you were a bit nicer, you could help them understand what their experience is rather than scare them off. just saying.

i recommend all interested to read the free peterson book mentioned earlier. its a quick read, he goes into great detail about the differences between OBE's and lucid dreams, and he gives a lot of techniques to try out. much of the literature does.

if anything, based on several sources (and limited experience,) an OBE could be considered a specific subset of lucid dreaming.

whether or not your "soul" is "astral traveling" is more a question of interpretation and semantics IMO.

i have had partial "OBE experiences" upon "returning" to my body from an LD. i also had several LDs / FAs where i seemed to wake up in my body, in my bed, which were certainly "just" lucid dreams starting from my bedroom. the experience is different, the consciousness is different, the feeling is different.

reductive positivsm (meaning "science has everything well in hand, we do / can / will understand everything about the brain / life / the universe) is a gross over simplification. there are many invisible things that were impossible in the past that have become visible over time, such as microwaves, germs, atoms, and other forms of electromagnetic radiation. to think we understand or even suspect %1 of the mysteries of the universe and mind is shortsighted to me.