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    Thread: Dreams and Morality

    1. #1
      Highry Illegular bennettb6's Avatar
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      Lightbulb Dreams and Morality

      I've been having a discussion with my friend who is married and has lucid sex dreams about other women regularly. It's bringing up some really interesting topics about morals in dreams and how they can affect you in real life. Here's the last message I sent him:

      "Well, I think we differ there. I think a lot about my dreams during the day, and I definitely don't think of them as their own isolated part of my life.

      A lot of times when I'm worried about something or someone, I'll have a dream about it. It's a connection with my subconscious mind that I otherwise would not have.

      They say acting out confrontations in your dreams can make you more confident about them in real life and help you succeed. Conquering fears in your dreams can help you get over fears in your reality, whether you're consciously thinking about it or not. Dreams and waking life thoughts are indeed very connected. This is why I believe that cheating and doing immoral things in your dreams can affect your life. Whether its for the better or worse (acting out urges so you don't have to in real life vs making you think its okay and making you more likely to do them) is what I still haven't decided."

      I hate to compare it to the violent video games debate, but what do you think? Can the actions you take in dreams change who you are in reality?
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    2. #2
      Miss Sixy <span class='glow_FFFFFF'>Maria92</span>'s Avatar
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      The violent video game debate is 100% grade A bullshit, but that's beside the point.

      Let's look at it this way. I argue that consequences ultimately determine what is moral and what isn't. Dream sex has little to no bearing on day to day life, and doesn't predispose a person to cheat on their spouse. Even if there is a subconscious connection, the decision to cheat is made in full consciousness with complete knowledge of the risks and benefits. A person who would not cheat before dream sex will not cheat after.
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      Dreamer Tripoli's Avatar
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      If you have decided to have sex with another women in your dreams even though your married because you can, is just wrong to me.
      "Will you marry me"
      "Yes, but I will consciously have sex with other women in my dreams because it isn't real, and because I can."

      You would never tell your spouse this would you? "Don't do anything you will be embarrassed to tell me"
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      Miss Sixy <span class='glow_FFFFFF'>Maria92</span>'s Avatar
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      Or, you know, it could totally turn her on. What does it matter if he keeps them to himself?

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      Dreamer Tripoli's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Mario92 View Post
      Or, you know, it could totally turn her on. What does it matter if he keeps them to himself?
      It's not about what she knows or not. It's about what you know.
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      4: Have some epic battles with my childhood heroes and villians (DBZ)

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      Member mazillion's Avatar
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      I don't think sex with other girls in your dream is particularly bad, especially because you know you are doing it just because it is only a dream. But do you really think she wants to hear that you are consciously engaging in sex with others in your dream? I mean, what sort of message does that send, even if there is no problem, she would probably assume you are bored of her or something. It is probably better if it is just a stranger girl in your dream, because it would be especially bad if you told her you had sex with one of your or her friends, or maybe even celebrities?
      Now that i think of it, lucid dream sex is sort of just lifelike interactive porn, and i don't think any women like their men doing that.
      Nothing is difficult in a dream, its all in your head.

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      Miss Sixy <span class='glow_FFFFFF'>Maria92</span>'s Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Tripoli View Post
      It's not about what she knows or not. It's about what you know.
      And what you know is that what she doesn't know isn't hurting her.

      Let's face it, we all have private fantasies. That includes her. Lucid dreams provide a safe outlet for those fantasies, and sure as hell beats repressing them. And what about non-lucids? Is the person supposed to feel bad because they want to boff other people? It's a perfectly natural craving, and one which we have little control over. What's the big deal? If people aren't getting hurt, there isn't a problem.

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      GettingHighOnInformation Metalconch's Avatar
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      Since it's a "natural craving" why don't we just fulfill it in real life like animals. There's other things to do in lucid dreams then degrade your wife
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      It is strange the number of people who believe that their thoughts are somehow immune to concepts of right and wrong--even though their mind effects human action.
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      Miss Sixy <span class='glow_FFFFFF'>Maria92</span>'s Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Metalconch View Post
      Since it's a "natural craving" why don't we just fulfill it in real life like animals. There's other things to do in lucid dreams then degrade your wife
      Because in this day and age, the consequences of your actions would most likely hurt her. Other than that, there is nothing inherently immoral about that proposition. Some married couples do exactly that and lead perfectly happy, healthy lives while remaining in love with one another.

      I find it interesting that sex is still demonized in our society to the extent that it is. You can't do it, you can't talk about it, can't bring it up in conversation, and for god's sake, don't think about it!

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      Ade
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      I believe it is not so easy to say, there is a lot of theory under it, but basically when we are asleep the superego(the moral part of our psyche) weakenss and the Id(the primitive, suppressed side of us) takes charge. I don't know if it is wrong or right, I think we are too busy on focusing on the moral part of the "brain", that we are suppressing everything beyond it, forgeting and not fully understanding the whole function of these suppressed, "amoral" things.
      I think "morality" is also a necessary, narrow-minded standpoint that does not reflect the whole situation.

      It seems to me lucid dreamers often(and I mark this word) are trying to give medicine to someone(subconsciousness) who is not even sick. To my mind it is more of a question about how far we can go in our explorations and views when it comes to the unknown.
      After all the subconsciousness is not just a puppet show, it has a very important funcional meaning people should not ignore, before and if trying to change the natural way of it's existence.

    12. #12
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      I don't believe that the issue is about the amount of crap the brain flashes before our mental eye, the question is which part of that crap we cultivate of our own volition.

    13. #13
      Hyu
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      It's certainty an interesting topic of discussion.
      I do believe that dreams can affect your reality, you've given a few good examples for this yourself.
      However on the topic of dream sex, I don't think it's morally wrong.

      Yes, you would never tell your wife about it, which makes it seem wrong.
      But I think the actual reason for not telling is not that it is morally wrong,
      but that she wouldn't understand it.

      I'll go one step further and say that it may actually be a good thing.
      As Mario mentioned, it's a natural urge.
      Living it in dreams can actually calm this urge down in waking life.

      Anyways, this is my personal opinion, I can see why one would think differently about this.
      Dreams are simple.
      It's the painfully simple things the human mind cannot comprehend.
      After all your mind is trained to understand the complexity of the waking world,
      not the simplicity of the dream world.

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    14. #14
      The Pseudonym Rawracookie's Avatar
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      On the violent videogames debate, videogames and population are going way up. Violence is going down.

      Yes, some people that are violent play violent videogames, but for every one of those, there are tons more who aren't violent that play violent videogames.

      Dreamland is kind of like videogames. It's the same effect anyways, a virtual world for you to do things in that you wouldn't or couldn't irl.
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    15. #15
      Dreamer Tripoli's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Mario92 View Post
      And what you know is that what she doesn't know isn't hurting her.

      Let's face it, we all have private fantasies. That includes her. Lucid dreams provide a safe outlet for those fantasies, and sure as hell beats repressing them. And what about non-lucids? Is the person supposed to feel bad because they want to boff other people? It's a perfectly natural craving, and one which we have little control over. What's the big deal? If people aren't getting hurt, there isn't a problem.
      Except in normal dreams you are not aware of what your doing, you didn't choose to do it, you brain just did.
      I just think marriage is a lot more then "What she doesn't know won't hurt her".

      Quote Originally Posted by Philosopher8659 View Post
      I don't believe that the issue is about the amount of crap the brain flashes before our mental eye, the question is which part of that crap we cultivate of our own volition.
      As in think of ourselves (completely aware) instead of our sub conscious throwing us ideas (Unaware and no control)?

      Quote Originally Posted by Mario92 View Post
      Because in this day and age, the consequences of your actions would most likely hurt her. Other than that, there is nothing inherently immoral about that proposition. Some married couples do exactly that and lead perfectly happy, healthy lives while remaining in love with one another.

      I find it interesting that sex is still demonized in our society to the extent that it is. You can't do it, you can't talk about it, can't bring it up in conversation, and for god's sake, don't think about it!
      It's because society finds sex to be a personal private thing you don't talk about. You can think about sex, I just find that when you marry you should try to avoid thoughts about having sex with other women because she won't know.
      I guess this is just me and my version of spirituality talking (thats not to say you don't believe in spirituality just that my version is different).
      Last edited by ♥Mark; 03-17-2011 at 06:15 AM.
      Lucid dream goals:
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      2. have a long LD
      3: Fly
      4: Have some epic battles with my childhood heroes and villians (DBZ)

    16. #16
      Miss Sixy <span class='glow_FFFFFF'>Maria92</span>'s Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Tripoli View Post
      Except in normal dreams you are not aware of what your doing, you didn't choose to do it, you brain just did.
      I just think marriage is a lot more then "What she doesn't know won't hurt her".
      Alright, perhaps you would care to explain exactly how having dream sex would hurt her? It's nothing new. Most married people have fantasies of shagging other people. Welcome to the real world. Asking a person to only think of screwing one other person for the rest of their lives isn't just unfeasible, it entirely contradicts hundreds of thousands of years of evolution. There is nothing inherently wrong with harboring a personal fantasy, and dreaming about it hardly differs from thinking about it. If she doesn't want to hear about your amorous dream escapades, you don't have to tell her, and she doesn't have to know. Nobody suffers. It's that simple.

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      Dreamer Tripoli's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Mario92 View Post
      Alright, perhaps you would care to explain exactly how having dream sex would hurt her? It's nothing new. Most married people have fantasies of shagging other people. Welcome to the real world. Asking a person to only think of screwing one other person for the rest of their lives isn't just unfeasible, it entirely contradicts hundreds of thousands of years of evolution. There is nothing inherently wrong with harboring a personal fantasy, and dreaming about it hardly differs from thinking about it. If she doesn't want to hear about your amorous dream escapades, you don't have to tell her, and she doesn't have to know. Nobody suffers. It's that simple.
      Well I wouldn't say in isn't wrong, it just isn't wrong in your view, just as it is wrong in my view. Neither one of us is correct, because there is no correct answer.
      I just find that life isn't all about what you can see (Emphasis on the "I", "just", and "find"). I know I wouldn't want my wife (Single) consciously dreaming about doing other men because "I can". Do I blame her for having the urge to? Of course not, just like I have the urge to lie, I can't be blamed as we all lie, but I should try my best to avoid it.
      Of course sex and lying are different, one is controversial, the other is pretty much accepted as being wrong in most cases (Lying). But I hope you can see what I'm trying to say.
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    18. #18
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      You definitely have a valid point.

      I'm not sure what I would have said a few months ago, but after having had a decent amount of lucid dreams I can easily state that personally,
      I wouldn't mind if my wife (single as well) had lucid dream sex with other guys.

      I know I behave and think completely differently in lucid dreams.
      It's all about the adventure, feeling things I have never (or can't) feel in waking life.
      There is no sense of morality similar to the one in waking life when I dream, that would just get in the way.
      I just feel like the actions in my dreams have no relation to morality in waking life,
      and if my wife is a lucid dreamer, I'd expect it to be the same for her as well, and I wouldn't mind the things she does during her lucids.
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      Dreams are simple.
      It's the painfully simple things the human mind cannot comprehend.
      After all your mind is trained to understand the complexity of the waking world,
      not the simplicity of the dream world.

      - Yuya

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      GettingHighOnInformation Metalconch's Avatar
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      I agree with Tripoli. To say that we have the fleshly desire to do something in no way correlates to moral correctness... Obviously. Whether it's spiritually correct or not, lusting after other women when your married leads you to a path of divorce. You could say that's an extreme, but honestly, something as seemingly natural as pornography tears marriages apart all the time. One thing always leads to another so you might as well not let lucid sex be a gateway.. Unless you're lucid married?
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    20. #20
      Miss Sixy <span class='glow_FFFFFF'>Maria92</span>'s Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Metalconch View Post
      I agree with Tripoli. To say that we have the fleshly desire to do something in no way correlates to moral correctness... Obviously. Whether it's spiritually correct or not, lusting after other women when your married leads you to a path of divorce. You could say that's an extreme, but honestly, something as seemingly natural as pornography tears marriages apart all the time. One thing always leads to another so you might as well not let lucid sex be a gateway.. Unless you're lucid married?
      Same bad reasoning used in the video game debate. "If person 1 kills virtual people, they will be more likely to kill real people, cuz they're carrying out the exact same actions in a virtual environment." Our ability to differentiate between what is acceptable in a dream and what is acceptable in reality runs far deeper than you give it credit for. Besides, if a person didn't have dream sex, they'd just fantasize about other people during the day. This is honestly one of the most harmless things you can do. Anyone who wants to limit another person's dreams has some serious self esteem/jealousy/control issues.

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      GettingHighOnInformation Metalconch's Avatar
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      Last edited by Metalconch; 03-17-2011 at 02:45 AM.
      Lucid Goals

      Short term
      convince a dc they're in a dream, get high, go swimming

      Long Term
      have a deild, continue a relationship, stop time

    22. #22
      Miss Sixy <span class='glow_FFFFFF'>Maria92</span>'s Avatar
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      Nice propaganda. Got something with actual substance to argue with?

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      I must point out, the "watch your" is the important part, as in, don't confuse something with another.

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      Dreamer Tripoli's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by bennettb6 View Post
      I've been having a discussion with my friend who is married and has lucid sex dreams about other women regularly. It's bringing up some really interesting topics about morals in dreams and how they can affect you in real life. Here's the last message I sent him:

      "Well, I think we differ there. I think a lot about my dreams during the day, and I definitely don't think of them as their own isolated part of my life.

      A lot of times when I'm worried about something or someone, I'll have a dream about it. It's a connection with my subconscious mind that I otherwise would not have.

      They say acting out confrontations in your dreams can make you more confident about them in real life and help you succeed. Conquering fears in your dreams can help you get over fears in your reality, whether you're consciously thinking about it or not. Dreams and waking life thoughts are indeed very connected. This is why I believe that cheating and doing immoral things in your dreams can affect your life. Whether its for the better or worse (acting out urges so you don't have to in real life vs making you think its okay and making you more likely to do them) is what I still haven't decided."

      I hate to compare it to the violent video games debate, but what do you think? Can the actions you take in dreams change who you are in reality?[
      Do I think that actions in your dreams change you in reality? Probably not but it depends from person to person.
      Lucid dream goals:
      1. Get into SP /Check
      2. have a long LD
      3: Fly
      4: Have some epic battles with my childhood heroes and villians (DBZ)

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      Don't marry the Thought Police.
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