Thread: Memories

Just because a scientist somewhere makes a hypothesis, doesn't mean that he isn't a complete idiot who has no idea what he is talking about. In fact, being a scientist it is more likely he has no idea what he is talking about. Scientists restrict themselves to matters of quantity -- they quantify things -- but they disregard all manner of Quality and Significance because they have not figured out how to quantify Quality and Significance. So all of their explanations for Dreams automatically dismiss MEANING, PURPOSE, LIFE, LOVE, BEAUTY, GOODNESS and even EVIL. How could such explanations be anything but moronically idiotic and shallow?

And still we have individuals who take that stuff seriously.

That’s an interesting hypothesis, Cynical. I’d never thought about it that way, but I suppose anything is possible and it does make sense. By the way, you are not moronically idiotic or shallow for bringing it up and wanting to discuss.

Leo, I understand that you believe you are smarter than the majority of human beings on earth, but is it really necessary to be such a prick about it? Try and respect others a little more, ok? To be totally honest, I very much enjoy reading your posts but there are occasions (like now) where your words can be unnecessarily (and maybe unintentionally) condescending. We’re all here to learn and debate and bounce our ideas off of one another, not bully someone for having a theory that might disagree with what we believe. Anyway, I look forward to more of your fascinating and well-written posts.

Edit: Oh yeah, good point brought up by Mystical...

The problem is I don’t think he realises people of different ages use this forum, if he expects teenagers (14, 15, 16 year olds) to have the same intelligence of someone in their 40s then that to me is just bad-mannered and impolite.

To answer the original question, I REALLY DON'T THINK SCIENTISTS KNOW VERY MUCH ABOUT THE TOPIC. Truly.

But there is a part of that theory which accounts for what you have asked. These people think that dreams sort (or erase) the little databanks in your brain and then erase themselves, which is supposed to account for why dreams are sometimes hard to remember if you don't record them immediately.

I personally don't put much credit into this explanations (since humans, to my knowledge, don't very closely resemble computers), but I thought I would share the knowledge.

~*A_P*~

erase themselves,[/b]

Yeah, I had thaught of that, but regardelss of whether they are SUPPOSED to erase themselves, if they dont then they are turned into memories.

I don't think Leo meant to directly insult cynical_bob at all, but rather was just commenting on the scientists who come up with these theories...and those people who blindly follow everything they say. He did not mean bob....bob was just the one who brought up the topic.

yup, i agree...i think A Lost Soul might have over reacted just a little bit...took it a little out of context.
I think Leo was merely making an observation, not trying to get at someone.

If I overreacted, I apologize. Perhaps I misunderstood what was being said and took it as a subtle attack on Cynical. Modding this board is like walking on eggshells all the time and we do our best to ensure that everyone is being respected.

peace?

and i don't think that theory is silly...i've thought it myself before now...but thought some more, and then realised your dreams would get pretty crazy, and maybe a bit repetitive. We wouldn't be able to learn anything from them...
or at least that's what i believe...

If you are correct Bob which is pretty likely since every past influences a future maybe we could actually use lucid dreams to influence our next dreams and maybe create a way so that we could keep having lucid dreams from the influence of our previous lucid dreams, but I don't want to get too ahead of myself.

Many people base their decisions on past experiences so it is possible that people could base their future dreams on past ones. If the mind remembers the dream then you could recall the experience anywhere even in your future dreams. Since your mind usually has dreams relate to something in your life it is possible that it could relate it to a previous dream that you had. It all depends on if the subconcious chooses to or not really and I can't think of a way to test it.

You are a very smart person Bob.

Originally posted by Yume
If you are correct Bob which is pretty likely since every past influences a future maybe we could actually use lucid dreams to influence our next dreams and maybe create a way so that we could keep having lucid dreams from the influence of our previous lucid dreams, but I don't want to get too ahead of myself.

Many people base their decisions on past experiences so it is possible that people could base their future dreams on past ones. If the mind remembers the dream then you could recall the experience anywhere even in your future dreams. Since your mind usually has dreams relate to something in your life it is possible that it could relate it to a previous dream that you had. It all depends on if the subconcious chooses to or not really and I can't think of a way to test it.

Now, i could be way off, but isn't this what the whole concept of dreamsigns is about? Not only do they give you triggers as to when you are dreaming, but surely they are great for symbolism in dreams, in that if they keep recurring, then the subconcious is trying to tell you something?
just a thought...


You are a very smart person Bob. [/b]

You are a very smart person Bob. [/b]

Wow... I am genuinely surprised that someone said that, especially at this board. I assumed that everyone thaught I was an idiot (which I still do, being the paranoid guy that I am).

Thanks.

My ideas about memories:

I dont really think dreams get erased at all, I think they get sorted by the same process as when we're awake.

In order for me to remember something later, it has to be something personally important, or I have to make a conscious effort and decision to remember it. I have to tell myself to remember it later. Because we're not usually making any of these desicions when we're asleep, dreams would naturally lack these willpower based memories. If you were lucid, you could employ this 'method.' I still think that its quite hard to remember something just by wilpower without using the 'method' in the next paragraph.

To remember something that happened in the past, you have to associate it with something else... so you could trace your steps back in time and remember things in that order. When we wake up, logically the thing that we did last was fall asleep, skipping over our dreams. If we can still remember something that just happened in our dream through short term memory, then we can trace back through the dream. The problem is dreams are directly influenced by thoughts so they end up almost random, so its harder to logically associate through the past, which means that in dreams its easier to forget what happened, its easier to forget them when you wake up, and almost impossible to remember them later in the day without directly associating them with something by accident.

Something else i feel like mentioning is learning something by rote and remembering it indefintely, like your times tables or the alphabet. I think i can safely say that doesn't apply to this situation.

Basically, memories aren't erased, they're forgotten naturally..

Originally posted by cynical_bob+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(cynical_bob)</div>

In short, your first dream (if remembered) should influence your next dream which would influence your next dream[/b]

I think this is correct, its just that you forget things while you're in the dream because you can't associate what you're doing now with what happened before as well as you can in real life, because the dreams are effected by your thoughts and naturally end up almost random. (observation: its like a word association thread...)

I'd say that keeping a dream journal could help by making remembering part of the routine for that time of the day, or perhaps remembering is simply skill to be practiced like anything else.
_________________

Originally posted by Leo Volont+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Leo Volont)</div>

Just because a scientist somewhere makes a hypothesis, doesn't mean that he isn't a complete idiot who has no idea what he is talking about.[/b]

agreed.
<!--QuoteBegin-Leo Volont@
n fact, being a scientist it is more likely he has no idea what he is talking about.

Im my experience, scientists usually have a higher level of understanding than the average person. But your opinion is still valid, for the same reasons that a scientist might say an astrologer has no idea what they're talking about. Each to their own way of explaining the world. Try to stay open minded?
<!--QuoteBegin-Leo Volont

So all of their explanations for Dreams automatically dismiss MEANING, PURPOSE, LIFE, LOVE, BEAUTY, GOODNESS and even EVIL.

A scientist would describe these things as emotions, not as physical attributes. They could quantify them as functions of the brain, not the universe... (in a philosophical sense)