"Try to stay calm, but this is my dream" - A discussion about Dream Characters

One of the first posts I read on this forum was a comment about telling a DC that they were a figment of a dream then the DC proceeded to flip out. That post never really left my mind & it created a burning desire to try my hand at an experiment similar to this. So here is the first question & experiment: Can you find or manifest a DC of your choosing & calmly explain to them that what they were living was a dream. The purpose of the experiment is not to see the DC flip out, quite the opposite, the real question is, can a DC accept that? Will they remember when you have another dream; will they be able to affect you dream as well; can you befriend a DC & allow them access to the freedom being lucid brings? I have a firm belief, as I'm sure many of you have, that the Dream World, or Dreamscape, has a staggering amount in common with the "Real World." If you can expand the consciousness of someone in "Real Life" & the result is to be more Enlightenment & all that comes with it, then what would happen if a DC was lucid, or "Enlightened," during a dream?
How different are we to DC's; can't it be argued that DC's have a certain amount of Free Will? You can't necessarily make a DC's say a specific sentences as if they were reading from a script. There is a thread about the "darnedest" things DC's say, isn't the randomness of a DC supporting evidence to there Free Will?
Sorry, I have noticed when I write about a topic I will start to just think out loud without any structure. So to review these are the things I would like you to experiment with & the things I would like you to think and/or give your humble & honest opinion on. (I will join all that do try this experiment once I can actually Lucid Dream :()
Experiment:
-Try to rationally reason to a DC that they are in a dream. Try to keep them calm & open minded as to except their situation. Try to be empathetic, as this could also happen to you one day :shadewink:.
-Befriend the DC and try to teach them how they can affect the world around them. Show them that the dreams is as much their's to have fun in as it is yours.
-See if the DC reappears in another dreams & remembers you or the lessons taught.
-See if the DC is growing in: Free Will, Reason, Individuality, & ability to control dream.

questions to consider:
-How different is the "Real World" from the "Dream World"?
-How different are we from DC's?
-Do DC's have Free Will?
-Can a DC do some of the things you can do in a Dream?
-Can a DC expand their Consciousness? If so, what would happen if they became as Sentient as you?

Thank you for you time & effort & remember that no one is completely right & no one is necessarily wrong, we literary create what we perceive through thoughts, emotions, & paradigms. Also remember to show respect for everyone you meet until they give you reason, a damn good reason, to do otherwise. Lack of respect is the very essence of Anger, Ignorance, & Evil in general.

Also...Dancing Bananas :banana::banana::banana::banana: <---Right, it's like WTF?
Oh, and have a nice day :D.

I wondered this for a long time to, most dream characters will just brush it aside or not care, while others will freak out. You might ask a thought provoking question instead like "are you in my world or am I in yours?" or even just "where are we?"

This is an awesome idea!!! When I have a lucid dream (never had one before :eh: ) I will definitely try this :)

That's something that I want to do. What really annoys me is that I often consider my family real even when I know it's a dream. >_< In probably all or almost all of my dreams one of my younger sisters are in them and other family members and I always consider them real, even though they don't act like my real family. I also consider other dream characters real people and I sometimes do end up telling them that it is a dream but I usually still just think that they are just another dreamer. I guess it's because I often think of my dreams as a separate world and because I really want to have a shared dream. In my next lucid dream I want to go up to all the dream characters (or almost all of them) and tell them that they are not real and just a part of my dream. I have a feeling that a lot of them would just deny that it was a dream or be like "So what if it's a dream?"

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Originally Posted by Kaira

That's something that I want to do. What really annoys me is that I often consider my family real even when I know it's a dream. >_< In probably all or almost all of my dreams one of my younger sisters are in them and other family members and I always consider them real, even though they don't act like my real family. I also consider other dream characters real people and I sometimes do end up telling them that it is a dream but I usually still just think that they are just another dreamer. I guess it's because I often think of my dreams as a separate world and because I really want to have a shared dream. In my next lucid dream I want to go up to all the dream characters (or almost all of them) and tell them that they are not real and just a part of my dream. I have a feeling that a lot of them would just deny that it was a dream or be like "So what if it's a dream?"

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Because I haven't had a lucid dreams I could explore yet is probably the reason I can say this but I am still not really convinced that DC's are not real. I was reading KingYoshi's DJ and the more and more I read it the more and more I believe that to say that DC's aren't real is just not fair to say considering the lack of knowledge, information, & experimentation we all have with dreaming(most people anyway). Until there is a collective of evidential data, the question of whether or not DC's are real is very debatable, hell the question of what "real" is is very debatable. I remember reading in Yoshi's DJ that some DC's knew before he did that they were "lucid" or in a dream, some of then even knew what a lucid person could do, and some of them could do some of lucid abilities. One thing that really interested me was when Yoshi wrote about playing on a Socom map, one of the DC's knew that he was dreaming and said something about a device that suppressed the Lucid Powers. Doing what all of us would do he thought "f*** that" and attempted to fly, not soon after he felt a shock through his entire body and fell to the ground. I'm still don't quite understand what could do that to a Dreamer, if during your dream the world is influenced by your mind & focus wouldn't all you would need to do it focus on having your Powers or focus on the plate vanishing. However that didn't happen he heard the suggestion from the DC that the plates restrict abilities but he consciously said he did not want to abide by those rules but he was forced to, or he just didn't mind being restricted but I know I sure as hell would. In my humble opinion it almost sounds like someone in the Dream World constructed a device that hinders the abilities of a dreamer, what on or off Earth could do that. Who knows, maybe the Dreams World goes on when no one is dreaming, maybe when we dream we just go to the Dream World and play in the sandbox that it is, and maybe there were already people in the sandbox before we got there. This is just a theory however and a theory without evidence is a belief but I plan to test many of theories when the day finally comes that I can induce lucid dreams.

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Originally Posted by TheEvolutionist

Because I haven't had a lucid dreams I could explore yet is probably the reason I can say this but I am still not really convinced that DC's are not real. I was reading KingYoshi's DJ and the more and more I read it the more and more I believe that to say that DC's aren't real is just not fair to say considering the lack of knowledge, information, & experimentation we all have with dreaming(most people anyway). Until there is a collective of evidential data, the question of whether or not DC's are real is very debatable, hell the question of what "real" is is very debatable. I remember reading in Yoshi's DJ that some DC's knew before he did that they were "lucid" or in a dream, some of then even knew what a lucid person could do, and some of them could do some of lucid abilities. One thing that really interested me was when Yoshi wrote about playing on a Socom map, one of the DC's knew that he was dreaming and said something about a device that suppressed the Lucid Powers. Doing what all of us would do he thought "f*** that" and attempted to fly, not soon after he felt a shock through his entire body and fell to the ground. I'm still don't quite understand what could do that to a Dreamer, if during your dream the world is influenced by your mind & focus wouldn't all you would need to do it focus on having your Powers or focus on the plate vanishing. However that didn't happen he heard the suggestion from the DC that the plates restrict abilities but he consciously said he did not want to abide by those rules but he was forced to, or he just didn't mind being restricted but I know I sure as hell would. In my humble opinion it almost sounds like someone in the Dream World constructed a device that hinders the abilities of a dreamer, what on or off Earth could do that. Who knows, maybe the Dreams World goes on when no one is dreaming, maybe when we dream we just go to the Dream World and play in the sandbox that it is, and maybe there were already people in the sandbox before we got there. This is just a theory however and a theory without evidence is a belief but I plan to test many of theories when the day finally comes that I can induce lucid dreams.

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Hmmm... It would be interesting if the DC's are real. Really, I would kind of like it that way. In a sense, I think that they are real, they just happen to live in your dreams. Perhaps we are even dream characters of someone else's dream.

Anyways, It's mostly just the DC's that look like my family that I want to tell them aren't real, or at least aren't my real family. I just get mad when i mistake other dream characters for dreamers.

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Originally Posted by Kaira

Hmmm... It would be interesting if the DC's are real. Really, I would kind of like it that way. In a sense, I think that they are real, they just happen to live in your dreams. Perhaps we are even dream characters of someone else's dream.

Anyways, It's mostly just the DC's that look like my family that I want to tell them aren't real, or at least aren't my real family. I just get mad when i mistake other dream characters for dreamers.

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Let this be perfectly clear to everyone, science, & most of the world for that matter, does not know much about dreams. Yes, there is Dream Yoga & Tibetan Monks that can provide a good basis of understanding but they are not perfect and do not know all there is to know and they know they don't know everything about dreams. The truth requires evidence, evidence is not limited to objective physical evidence, and the more people you have that find the same evidence the more sure you can be that you have truth and knowledge. We are all ignorant about dreams and that is OK for now because we are also ignorant about many other things in the Physical world but the more truth and knowledge one gains the easier it is to gain more knowledge.
Like I said to say DC's are not real is ignorant; you can't say that for sure because you really don't have much collective evidence that they aren't. All I'm saying is be open-minded, people discover new things every day & I wouldn't be suprised if one of the things we discover in the near future is that DC's are, at some level or another, "Real."
A question I pose for all of those reading, feel free to post you opinion on here; What makes something "Real?" For the longest time Science has said that for something to be real you have to be able to examine it with one of our senses & it has to be objectively measurable. However with science like quantum Physics & scientists like Dr. Thomas Campbell that school of thought is being challenge & it is my humble opinion that formal science is losing.

When I was like 8 before I knew what lucid dreaming was I realized I was dreaming and told my friend we were dreaming and he looked at me and said he believed me which I didn't expect at all.

I did something like that once, although pretty casually. I didn't expect any specific reply because I didn't want the answer to be generated by my own expectations.

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I began to walk towards a woman that was sitting down at a two-chair table by herself. She had dirty-blonde hair down to her shoulders, and was wearing a light pink cashmere sweater, with sleeves that stopped at her arms. I leaned over, putting my elbows on the table, and held an imaginary microphone in my right hand, holding it out to her.

"You're not real," I said.
"I know." The DC shrugged it off.
"What's it like to be a dream character?"
"It feels real to me."

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That's all that happened... This thread makes me want to do it again, though!

I was reading Dream academy on the forums and I highly recommend giving it a read it is an interesting concept and really makes one thing about the nature of the dream worlds reality.

It's all just in your head there's no alternate reality, the DC's don't think it's all based on your experience in life and your current state of mind. They are random and stupid because our brain doesn't feel the need to make them smart they are just memories or creations of your imaginationnn. No one will ever come up to you and say this is a dream your a dream character, we live in reality.

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Originally Posted by Reclypso

It's all just in your head there's no alternate reality, the DC's don't think it's all based on your experience in life and your current state of mind. They are random and stupid because our brain doesn't feel the need to make them smart they are just memories or creations of your imaginationnn. No one will ever come up to you and say this is a dream your a dream character, we live in reality.

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I can respect your opinion, it is probably the opinion of many others as well, however where are you coming up with your opinion, where is the evidential data to you opinion. An opinion without data is a belief, you are just as ignorant about the nature of dreams as everyone else on the planet. I'm not saying I'm right and you're wrong, I'm saying we both have our own opinions that just happened to conflict, we based these beliefs on the experiences we had in the past and how we handled them. I can completely understand where you are coming from and why you belief what you belief but the truth of the matter is both of us don't know the true nature of dreams. Scientists don't know the nature of our dreams and they state that, so to say you know for sure what DC's are is ignorance. Always be confident in you beliefs but never be closed-minded as to think your belief can not be disproved. To understand where I come from try viewing the video "What the Bleep, Down the Rabbit Hole" about the basics of quantum mechanics & read up on something called Dream Yoga, these are but the start of what got me to search for an endless amount of information and truth. I'm sure their are some Tibetan Monks that would view dreaming in a different light than you do.

I don't believe DCs are "real" because:

1.) You can will them into saying and doing whatever you, the dreamer, wish. In the real world, you cannot simply think something is going to happen to make it happen.

2.) If you see a DC while dreaming, look away, then look back, theres a good chance the mind could "forget" some of the features it was projecting onto the DC and you may see a slightly different character. Same deal with looking at text while dreaming. Your mind can't keep up with it all since it is not a solid, physical world. Your mind is creating it all. In the physical world, your senses feed off extremely stable external stimuli. In the dream world, your senses feed off of internal stimuli, something that is solely reliant on the limits of your brain.

3.) In dreams, with experience (which I have yet to acquire), you can create or summon any variety of person or persons you wish. On top of that, you could edit the features of a DC. In the waking world, you cannot think up a person you wish to hang with, then create them. You also cannot change the way a person looks at will (unless you have their consent, a good surgeon, and lots of cash).

EDIT: Not to mention the personalities of DCs are also completely controllable. This is also not possible in "reality."

LD

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Originally Posted by littledreamer

I don't believe DCs are "real" because:

1.) You can will them into saying and doing whatever you, the dreamer, wish. In the real world, you cannot simply think something is going to happen to make it happen.

2.) If you see a DC while dreaming, look away, then look back, theres a good chance the mind could "forget" some of the features it was projecting onto the DC and you may see a slightly different character. Same deal with looking at text while dreaming. Your mind can't keep up with it all since it is not a solid, physical world. Your mind is creating it all. In the physical world, your senses feed off extremely stable external stimuli. In the dream world, your senses feed off of internal stimuli, something that is solely reliant on the limits of your brain.

3.) In dreams, with experience (which I have yet to acquire), you can create or summon any variety of person or persons you wish. On top of that, you could edit the features of a DC. In the waking world, you cannot think up a person you wish to hang with, then create them. You also cannot change the way a person looks at will (unless you have their consent, a good surgeon, and lots of cash).

EDIT: Not to mention the personalities of DCs are also completely controllable. This is also not possible in "reality."

LD

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I’m not a big believer that DC’s are real in any sentient, independent way but, just for yuks, can I counter your points with stuff based on DC encounters I’ve had?

1. Over the long term, I would bet that I failed to will DC’s into doing what I wanted them to do more often than I succeeded… probably by a 3:1 margin. They can be a fairly independent lot! That said, it could also be argued that my will on occasion simply wasn’t strong enough to make changes; or perhaps my dreaming mind was toying with me. But what if it was something else?

2. Logically sound, and I agree. However, if I had a nickel for every DC I turned away from (usually because they were annoying, or interrupting my plans), only to find them standing there, often with arms folded and a bit of a smirk on their faces, after I turned back, I would have several dollars indeed!. My favorite version of this are the characters who grab at my ankles when I’m trying to fly out of a dream scene…I even had a character once (a young woman/stranger) who stayed exactly the same in three separate dreams and was even flying next top me once some ten minutes after I thought I had finally shaken her. Oh, and she answered my questions consistently and always with words I would not have come up with on my own. But that I suppose, all belongs somewhere else.

3. I’ve found that this is a lot harder than it sounds. I’ve found that DC’s, even after summoned or assembled straight out of dream clay (that was fun) tend to develop their own features and (albeit limited) personalities pretty quickly, and they are hard to change after that. The power to choose and define your friends might be stronger in dreaming life (is it really not there at all in waking life? I wonder), but it seems to me that it is more a power of suggestion, not ultimate creation.

All anecdotal, I know, and might only reflect certain deficiencies in my own LD scene management, but I thought I’d toss it in anyway!

Both of your arguments have great points and are filled with examples to support your data. That in itself is testament to the fact that none of us know. The main goal of this thread was not to persuade any of you to believe my theory, granted that was the secondary objective, it was more for getting the point across that NONE of us know & to say a belief, an educated guess that is based upon OUR OWN experiences, is a fact is just plain ignorance. I'm saying that there is a great number of people who would argue that DC's do have a some form of consciousness & free will & that the "Dream World" does have many similar properties to that of the "Real World." Some of them would be the Yogi's that created Dream Yoga & some Tibetan Monks; among many others. Because these people would challenge your belief is reason enough for the possibility that they are right.

Correct.

"To each his own."

I haven't encountered much DC's in my dreams though I have talked to my bro and told him it was a dream and he agreed, I'm like:
"look at your hands, where are you? comon you're dreaming!"
"oh yeah, I am"
And he disappeared. Other times most DC's (mainly in non-lucid dreams) were very emotionless, there was a time where a DC in a lucid was pretty much a walking ragdoll.

When I told my family in one of my lucid dreams that they weren't real, my "mother" just smiled and said,"Well, of course we're not real. But, that doesn't mean we don't exist." Then, I told them I wanted to eat some chips and hang out with them more. I was really disappointed when I woke up. I think they were too, because they said they hoped I would see them again.

just makes me want to try this out even more. i shall.

If I LDed more often I would definitely do this, but chances are I'll forget by the next time xD

I'm really curious, though, to see if you can give them more "free will".

And, about what someone was saying about KingYoshi's DJ, all the examples are where he could have expected it to happen. The example where he tried to fly away? If the DC said he would take him down, then, well, he would probably expect to be taken down. And then it did happen.

I'm a bit skeptical of the idea of ALL DCs being actual entities of some sort. I do believe that entities and other dreamers could possibly enter your dreams, however, I think that all DCs being some sort of being is a bit overboard. I also can't fathom that, of all the things your subconscious could conjure, other people wouldn't be one of them.

Curious to see if anyone has any results from this.

I had my first LD last night and remembered this task thing. The person was not really human, but a cartoon and I just made friends when the dream went :P

When I was a kid, santa clause would come to my school. I was really excited. I dreamed about it but I dreamed I got kicked out of my classroom (don't know why) right before he would drop by. But as soon as I walked out I realized this is a dream so I wasn't sad. I saw a boy cry in the hallway who was also kicked out. I walked up to him and said: "Don't cry, santa will be here tomorrow, this is just a dream." Then the boy looked at me, shoke his head and said: "I'm sorry but your wrong, this is NOT a dream." At that moment I believed him, got scared and when I realized I wouldn't be able to see santa I woke up...

Very glad to find out it really WAS a dream :D. Got fooled there!

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Originally Posted by TheEvolutionist

Let this be perfectly clear to everyone, science, & most of the world for that matter, does not know much about dreams. Yes, there is Dream Yoga & Tibetan Monks that can provide a good basis of understanding but they are not perfect and do not know all there is to know and they know they don't know everything about dreams. The truth requires evidence, evidence is not limited to objective physical evidence, and the more people you have that find the same evidence the more sure you can be that you have truth and knowledge. We are all ignorant about dreams and that is OK for now because we are also ignorant about many other things in the Physical world but the more truth and knowledge one gains the easier it is to gain more knowledge.
Like I said to say DC's are not real is ignorant; you can't say that for sure because you really don't have much collective evidence that they aren't. All I'm saying is be open-minded, people discover new things every day & I wouldn't be suprised if one of the things we discover in the near future is that DC's are, at some level or another, "Real."
A question I pose for all of those reading, feel free to post you opinion on here; What makes something "Real?" For the longest time Science has said that for something to be real you have to be able to examine it with one of our senses & it has to be objectively measurable. However with science like quantum Physics & scientists like Dr. Thomas Campbell that school of thought is being challenge & it is my humble opinion that formal science is losing.

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Could you point out the evidence that DCs are real, besides asserting that we don't know for certain that they aren't?

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Originally Posted by GuyCecil

Could you point out the evidence that DCs are real, besides asserting that we don't know for certain that they aren't?

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The only thing I can prove is that no one on the planet knows for certain what reality consists of or its true nature. All of the other theories are just theories based on subjective experience, quantum mechanics, string theory, some Buddhist beliefs, & a little Dream Yoga but none the less are very much theories. The purpose of this thread was to get more subjective evidence in the form of maybe 10 people trying it out for a short period of time and sharing with me their result. This is not something that can be done in one dream, it is like a seed that needs to be watered everyday, the more focused you are on it the more energy & "Consciousness" you produce; or at least that's the theory. Sorry if my lack of data in unconvincing but this is just an experiment of a hypothesis to collect data.

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Originally Posted by TheEvolutionist

The only thing I can prove is that no one on the planet knows for certain what reality consists of or its true nature. All of the other theories are just theories based on subjective experience, quantum mechanics, string theory, some Buddhist beliefs, & a little Dream Yoga but none the less are very much theories. The purpose of this thread was to get more subjective evidence in the form of maybe 10 people trying it out for a short period of time and sharing with me their result. This is not something that can be done in one dream, it is like a seed that needs to be watered everyday, the more focused you are on it the more energy & "Consciousness" you produce; or at least that's the theory. Sorry if my lack of data in unconvincing but this is just an experiment of a hypothesis to collect data.

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So you're proving that DC's are real because no one has ever proved that anything in the world is real? Fascinating logic, there!

Can I ask two quick questions, based on your explanation?

1. Why do you think, or want to believe, that DC's are real, as opposed to a creation of your dreaming mind?

2. Given that we can't prove the true nature of anything, won't your experiment wind up being inconclusive, regardless of results? If you, and perhaps others, post answers to all your questions, won't there be a bunch of subsequent posts arguing that you imagined the whole thing, and why?

Just curious. And keep in mind I'm asking these questions not to be rude but because of your statement above... I kind of like your experiment, regardless.