How to explain that lucid dreaming is not dangerous?...

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08-26-2011, 05:38 AM
Bboy500

How to explain that lucid dreaming is not dangerous?...

I tried to tell my friend that lucid dreaming is not dangerous...

his argument is that:
1. It is not natural thus it is unhealthy as you are not supposed to be awake while dreaming. You are not supposed to control your dreams

Some random clips of his convo:

Friend 11:58 pm
and even with reality checks there are concequences with things you do
and messing with your brain is not a good one

Friend 11:58 pm
you should let it do what it has to do
and not mess with it
when you start messing with it
Friend 11:58 pm
you can screw it up
Friend 11:58 pm
when you lucid dream you are artificially making yourself do it and when you do you are imagining which is fine but like you said it will be so real there will be times that you will lose reality
Friend 11:56 pm
your creating it
or making it
making it artificial
and that is whats not good for your brain

Here is what I told him:
1. It is natural, you train yourself to reality check, so when you go to sleep you un-consciously do a reality check and realize you dreaming. Then your logic part of the brain turns on and your in :D
2. You are not controlling you "brain" you are just aware that you are dreaming and with enough practice can change the dream around as you please (and here he says its un-natural).
3. Scientists never found anything dangerous about this.
4. Some people lucid dream without even knowing how to do it or what it is, aka naturally.

I will show him this topic tomorrow when he wakes up (so post reply's as if you are replying to him) and hopefully you guys can explain it better then me.

I'm not the best at explaining things anyway.

Just tell him why it is not dangerous and why lucid dreaming will not harm you... Because i cant seem to put it in proper detail.
08-26-2011, 05:55 AM
That

step 1: don't talk to an idiot
08-26-2011, 06:51 AM
fOrceez

Quote:

Originally Posted by That

step 1: don't talk to an idiot

don't talk to a close minded* idiot
08-26-2011, 07:14 AM
siuol

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bboy500

his argument is that:
1. It is not natural thus it is unhealthy as you are not supposed to be awake while dreaming. You are not supposed to control your dreams

Some random clips of his convo:

Friend 11:58 pm
and even with reality checks there are concequences with things you do
and messing with your brain is not a good one

Friend 11:58 pm
you should let it do what it has to do
and not mess with it
when you start messing with it
Friend 11:58 pm
you can screw it up
Friend 11:58 pm
when you lucid dream you are artificially making yourself do it and when you do you are imagining which is fine but like you said it will be so real there will be times that you will lose reality
Friend 11:56 pm
your creating it
or making it
making it artificial
and that is whats not good for your brain

Reply: [Citation Needed]
08-26-2011, 08:02 AM
Bobblehat

One of my favourite sayings in life - often applies:

You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.
08-26-2011, 04:37 PM
Dren

We don't even know why we dream - we only have theories. So we can only know if people become "screwed up" by talking to those who try it first-hand - and I'm pretty sure the people here aren't screwed up.

Besides, only a small portion of one's dreams are lucid - with the possible exception of Naiya, of course - so even if dreams are supposed to go their natural way, we still have many that do.
08-26-2011, 04:56 PM
Mancon

Tell him to google "Is lucid dreaming dangerous?" and to read through all the links. After he looks at a few articles, he should realize he is wrong.
08-26-2011, 08:15 PM
WDr

Actually, lucid dreams IS naturally. Around 50% of the population gets at least 1 lucid dream during their lives (without knowing anything about lucid dreaming) the only thing a lucid dreamer does, is increasing this number ;)
08-26-2011, 09:53 PM
Waterlimon

The only difference is that you have realized that its a dream. Same thing as if you thought youre a teacup in the dream.

You do not actually becomr more aware i think. Its just the single thought of being in a dream, so you base ur actions and thoughts on that instead of the idea of being a teacup. Not sure though.
08-26-2011, 09:57 PM
JussiKala

^Depends on the level of awareness in the dream though. Not all are the same.
08-26-2011, 10:04 PM
Waterlimon

Though you propably shouldnt try to get your friend believe sp is not harmful. He would see demons and say you tried to give his soul to the devil or something.
08-26-2011, 10:53 PM
dakotahnok

Number one: it is impossible to "loose your reality"
Number two: I am pretty sure that your friend is getting his ideas from inception. Which is not a good source for the truth on lucid dreaming.
Number three: is being an awesome swimmer dangerous? Because it isn't (by his definition) natural.
Number four: I have had 150 lucid dreams and I'm not any more crazy then I used to be.
08-26-2011, 10:54 PM
XeL

Quote:

when you lucid dream you are artificially making yourself do it and when you do you are imagining which is fine but like you said it will be so real there will be times that you will lose reality

That has never happened to anybody. Tell him to stop watching inception.

Quote:

you should let it do what it has to do

Some people believe that you shouldn't fondle around too much with your dreams. Robert Moss, the author of Concious Dreaming, addresses this issue. Lucidity does not equal not letting your dreams do whatever they want to. Even if you're lucid, you're free to let the dream take you whereever it wants to. I also doubt your friend is in position to make such a statement, seeing as he seems to know quite little about dreaming in general.

Quote:

making it artificial
and that is whats not good for your brain

What's his source for this? Lucid dreaming serves as a great source of creativity, if anything!

Quote:

and even with reality checks there are concequences with things you do

What concequences? Improved awareness is only positive to your waking life as well.

It seems that your friend is a little unknowledgable on the subject. Tell him to read "Exploring the world of lucid dreaming" By Stephen LaBerge. That should clear things up.
08-26-2011, 10:58 PM
Avalanche

"3. Scientists never found anything dangerous about this."

I love dem scientists.

None in particular.

Just scientists in general.
08-27-2011, 03:47 AM
Bboy500

Quote:

Originally Posted by Origami

"3. Scientists never found anything dangerous about this."

I love dem scientists.

None in particular.

Just scientists in general.

Well i never found any scientific info on how this would be dangerous... thus #3.

Edit: Also thanks for the replies sent him the link :D
08-27-2011, 05:00 AM
dms111

If you think about it we ALWAYS control our dreams, even the non lucid ones. "Control" is too strong a word, though. I think "influence" is more appropriate. I'll use a common nightmare scenario:

"You're walking alone down a dark street. You feel vulnerable. You worry some one may be following you. Now you hear footsteps behind you. You start running and worry some one is chasing you. Now you hear footsteps running behind you. You duck into a nearby house and hide in a closet. You feel a sense of relief, but then start worrying you'll still be found. Just then the closet door swings open..."

Your thoughts within the dream are what caused each development. You controlled it. The only difference between this ordinary dream and a lucid is that in the lucid you realize you're controlling it.
08-27-2011, 06:10 AM

While I disagree Lucid Dreaming I've heard has been linked to insomnia. Though that really isn't dangerous.
08-27-2011, 08:49 AM
XeL

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrBlonde

While I disagree Lucid Dreaming I've heard has been linked to insomnia. Though that really isn't dangerous.

Source? Sounds highly unlikely to me.
08-27-2011, 10:17 AM
Mzzkc

I have a pretty legit solution.

Step 1: Kick your friend hard in the shin. Hard enough to leave a really nasty bruise. Wear boots, if you've got them.

Step 2: Explain that if this had happened in a lucid dream, he would not have to deal with the bruise he's bound to be sporting for a few days.

Step 3: Conclude reality is more harmful than LDing, and if he still believes in LDing's "supposed dangers" (that he has absolutely no evidence for), and isn't willing to try it, then it logically follows that his very next action be to check out of reality altogether.

There are no flaws to this argument. None at all.

Give it a try.
08-27-2011, 01:07 PM
nina

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrBlonde

While I disagree Lucid Dreaming I've heard has been linked to insomnia. Though that really isn't dangerous.

I can see how lucid dreaming could be a result of insomnia, but lucid dreaming is certainly not a cause. If you've read otherwise, then please, as XeL said, provide sources...or clarify your statement.
08-27-2011, 02:11 PM
Avalanche

Just tell him that lucid dreaming doesn't affect your brain chemicals or your sleep patterns. People have been doing it for years and have had no ill effects.
Monks and those guys even do it in meditations.

If it was dangerous, someone would have had proof by now.
08-27-2011, 02:52 PM
DaTechnoKing

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mzzkc

I have a pretty legit solution.

Step 1: Kick your friend hard in the shin. Hard enough to leave a really nasty bruise. Wear boots, if you've got them.

Step 2: Explain that if this had happened in a lucid dream, he would not have to deal with the bruise he's bound to be sporting for a few days.

Step 3: Conclude reality is more harmful than LDing, and if he still believes in LDing's "supposed dangers" (that he has absolutely no evidence for), and isn't willing to try it, then it logically follows that his very next action be to check out of reality altogether.

There are no flaws to this argument. None at all.

Give it a try.

You sir, are win.
08-27-2011, 02:56 PM
Playlaughdream

Why don't you ask him about the dangers of not becoming aware of a naturally occurring experience which goes unnoticed to most people because they live their lives like zombies tied to unproved beliefs and busy with lots of useless and harmful activities for a healthy brain. Is modern life making humans lose a natural ability?
08-28-2011, 04:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XeL

Source? Sounds highly unlikely to me.

If i remember correctly it was from a informative video about Lucid Dreaming on youtube I saw few months. I'll go looking around to see if I can find it again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nina

I can see how lucid dreaming could be a result of insomnia, but lucid dreaming is certainly not a cause. If you've read otherwise, then please, as XeL said, provide sources...or clarify your statement.

How can it be a result whilst not a cause?
08-28-2011, 04:42 AM
Mzzkc

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrBlonde

How can it be a result whilst not a cause?

*facepalm*

Do you really need this explained to you? I mean, really?
08-28-2011, 05:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mzzkc

*facepalm*

Do you really need this explained to you? I mean, really?

Yes, I would like it to be explained to me. Why the fuss? Being ignorant in something isn't wrong.
08-28-2011, 05:34 AM
NrElAx

Like you said, people do it naturally as kid or throughout their life, so how is it dangerous then. That's enough proof right there. He probably hasn't even searched about it, so how can he say anything. I hate when people make statements without even researching and giving some hard evidence.
08-29-2011, 02:59 AM
Sassafrax

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bboy500

I tried to tell my friend that lucid dreaming is not dangerous...

his argument is that:
1. It is not natural thus it is unhealthy as you are not supposed to be awake while dreaming. You are not supposed to control your dreams

Some random clips of his convo:

Friend 11:58 pm
and even with reality checks there are concequences with things you do
and messing with your brain is not a good one

Friend 11:58 pm
you should let it do what it has to do
and not mess with it
when you start messing with it
Friend 11:58 pm
you can screw it up
Friend 11:58 pm
when you lucid dream you are artificially making yourself do it and when you do you are imagining which is fine but like you said it will be so real there will be times that you will lose reality
Friend 11:56 pm
your creating it
or making it
making it artificial
and that is whats not good for your brain

Here is what I told him:
1. It is natural, you train yourself to reality check, so when you go to sleep you un-consciously do a reality check and realize you dreaming. Then your logic part of the brain turns on and your in :D
2. You are not controlling you "brain" you are just aware that you are dreaming and with enough practice can change the dream around as you please (and here he says its un-natural).
3. Scientists never found anything dangerous about this.
4. Some people lucid dream without even knowing how to do it or what it is, aka naturally.

I will show him this topic tomorrow when he wakes up (so post reply's as if you are replying to him) and hopefully you guys can explain it better then me.

I'm not the best at explaining things anyway.

Just tell him why it is not dangerous and why lucid dreaming will not harm you... Because i cant seem to put it in proper detail.

While i disagree with your friend, i can see where he would get that viewpoint. Some people believe dreams are your brain's way of sorting out daily life, and by lucid dreaming you are in some way interfering with that process when consciously changing something that "should" be an unconscious process. But as someone here pointed out, there are people, such as myself, who have been lucid dreaming since childhood without even realizing it.
Just explain that the "dreams are for brains to sort stuff out" theory, is REALLY just a theory that has not been proven, to my knowledge that is.
08-29-2011, 03:02 AM
Darkmatters

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sassafrax

[B]Just explain that the "dreams are for brains to sort stuff out" theory, is REALLY just a theory that has not been proven in any way.

Yes. This plus not every dream is lucid. And even when you are lucid, I think if the subconscious has something really important it's trying to get across to you it will find a way.
08-29-2011, 03:09 AM
WinRic

OMG LuCiD dReAmInG is an abomination. You iz going to be crazy. You no know the difference between the fo realzzz and dreamzzz. UR FRIEND IS TOTALLY RITE. I mean he haz to know sooo much more than everyone here.

And I know he wouldn't dare say something like that if he weren't in the psychology field and completely know what he is talking about.

...

or he has done no research and has no knowledge about the field. But what kinda jackass would try and tell you that you are wrong without having any sort of knowledge about it? :shock:
08-29-2011, 03:12 AM
Sassafrax

Lol i love how defensive everyone in the Lucid Dreaming site gets to this. The friend is just obviously misinformed, though highly unlikely to change his view, i'm sure.
08-29-2011, 09:26 AM
Mancon

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sassafrax

Lol i love how defensive everyone in the Lucid Dreaming site gets to this. The friend is just obviously misinformed, though highly unlikely to change his view, i'm sure.

Haha it is kind of funny. It just annoys us! :D
08-29-2011, 12:21 PM
XeL

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sassafrax

Lol i love how defensive everyone in the Lucid Dreaming site gets to this. The friend is just obviously misinformed, though highly unlikely to change his view, i'm sure.

I must say I agree. When I first heard about lucid dreaming I was like: What? Bullshit!

You have to be patient =)
08-29-2011, 12:37 PM
Avalanche

I told 3 of my friends about lucid dreaming. I dressed it up and told it how it is- it's being able to do whatever you want each night in a dream, after a little practice.

2 of my friends listened and went "O rly" then nothing more was said. It's been half a year now, they haven't even googled it.
The other I told, he started a DJ, but I'm not even sure if he's followed up on that.

I don't see how you can be handed a free, easy to use (eventually), limitless and super realistic world and go "Meh, I'm good".

ISUHRGTLKSHAGKASHGK WHAT THE HELL GUYS
08-29-2011, 12:42 PM
Darkmatters

I think it takes a certain kind of person. The other day I was chatting online with another stopmotion animator that I've known online for many years, and I asked him if he knows what lucid dreaming is. I figured I'd get the usual blank stare (or you know - the online equivalent), but he was like "Dude! I used to lucid all the time!!" - mainly back when he used to get sick a lot apparently. I think a lot of artistic people understand it or are at least a lot more receptive to it.
08-29-2011, 12:46 PM
Avalanche

But any person should want to do this!

"Can you fly?" YES
"Can you breathe underwater?" YES
"Can you teleport around the world?" YES
"Can you have super powers?" YES
"Can you have sex?" YES
"Can you fly around without your body?" YES
"Can you go on adventures like in your normal dreams?" YES
"Will I still wake up refreshed?" YES
"Is this harmful in any way?" NO

"Nah I'm good, I'll just keep going to sleep as usual."
08-29-2011, 08:33 PM
Waterlimon

"Can you fly to space?" - No cuz i expected to not get oxygen and feel bad T_T