Meditation and it's results in lucid dreaming

So, I was wondering how does meditation affect lucid dreaming, if it does so in a direct or indirect way, and if anyone took the time to analyse and post any results. I'm not refering to the obvious indirect advantages it provides, like improvement on clearing the mind and more easily focus on a mantra/ADA/WILD or decrease on the "mental noise" we usually possess (random thoughts during the day).

This is the main idea I've gathered from several sources around:

- In deep meditation, people seem to enter such state that can somewhat relate to the deep sleep stage. The regular and constant breathing, the abstraction of the mind regarding physical and external stimulus and the relaxed position of the body can be observed in both sleep and meditation (assuming naturally the differences in physiological characteristics of sleep vs awake state).

I also heard that performing meditation can reduce the amount of time you stay in deep sleep, thus entering in REM stage more quickly.

I found no evidences or anyone commenting on these things, so I'd like to hear some input about whether meditation can decrease the average time of deep sleep. Many oneironauts report that meditating a bit before focusing on your mantra (for example during WBTBs) helps, but is this only in the "mind clearance" department?

You know, now I am going to do an experiment with meditation. Since I am having a bad time with lucid dreaming anyways, if I get any better results I will tell you. I might even try to do this on a regular bases before sleeping. I have meditated before, but never before bed or never been in a deep meditation. Will let you know the results. :)

All I can say is that I meditate every day for at least 20 minutes per session, usually in the evening or before bed. It has SEEMED to improve my rate of lucidity although I cannot provide any concrete evidence. Along with the things you mentioned, meditation also helps with awareness, which is key for realising you are in the dream state. If done diligently, the awareness you gain during meditation sessions will spill over into daily life. You find yourself being 'in the moment' more often and generally just being more in touch with your immediate surroundings, which obviously is going to help a great deal in gaining lucidity.

I know nothing of the effects it has on sleep cycles, except perhaps that once I managed to fall into sleep paralysis and enter lucidity just after going to bed (at night). This could have been for many reasons though as I am used to experiencing REM rebounds after working night duties on the weekend.

I think thats all I have to say now, interested to hear other replies.

Dunc

I started meditating this past month and I have seen a drastic increase in the frequency of my lucid dreams. These past two weeks I have had 7 lucid dreams while before I was only having around 1 a week. I cant say for sure if it can be attributed to meditation but I like to think it has helped.

Also meditation can bring about out of body experiences which are similar to LD's which I am going to start working towards soon.

Well, I meditated before bed last night. What I can say what happened was that I remembered almost all of my dreams last night. I am going to try this for a few nights to make sure it wasn't a fluke. Very interesting stuff. :)

As has been said already: meditation boosts awareness, which is one of the most fundamental things in lucid dreaming. It also seems to boost recall. It also happened to me once that I meditated before I went to sleep, and I didnt recall a single dream (which is seriously odd for me). I was really well rested though.

All sorts of positive things come out of meditation that all help in lucid dreaming. Concentration, Willpower, Visualisation to name a few things. Also one thing I gain from meditation is the ability to ignore certain messages from the body - the amount of times I've woken up from a dream (lucid or otherwise) to scratch my nose...

I only have a theory here...

Since I have been meditating (a few months now, starting with Yogani's, "Deep Meditation") my dreams have become nearly as detailed as my first lucid dreams. There is little or no jump from non-lucid to lucid for me, and in my case this seems to affect the level of visual detail the most (probably because of my stigma.)

Others have said meditation slows down your lucid dreams, so they don't blur by, a common problem for many LDrs.

Keep in mind that meditation is preparation for activity. Try to meditate before breakfast, before starting your day, and before supper, before ending it. Exercise after it, unless you are doing yoga, then you can exercise before. Meditate at least an hour before or after you eat. This will give you the best results.
- DreamBliss

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Originally Posted by DreamBliss

I only have a theory here...

Since I have been meditating (a few months now, starting with Yogani's, "Deep Meditation") my dreams have become nearly as detailed as my first lucid dreams. There is little or no jump from non-lucid to lucid for me, and in my case this seems to affect the level of visual detail the most (probably because of my stigma.)

Others have said meditation slows down your lucid dreams, so they don't blur by, a common problem for many LDrs.

Keep in mind that meditation is preparation for activity. Try to meditate before breakfast, before starting your day, and before supper, before ending it. Exercise after it, unless you are doing yoga, then you can exercise before. Meditate at least an hour before or after you eat. This will give you the best results.
- DreamBliss

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Sounds quite logical, but I don't really have the time to meditate an hour before breakfast :P I do it whenever I feel like doing it to be honest. It does sound like your method is more effective than mine though. About the 'deep meditation' method: can you tell me where to find it please?

I'm not sure about the going into REM faster, but meditating sure does make you more aware, and more open to possibilities, it can help you with creativity and imagination; which is useful for lucid dreaming. (and visualizing, etc.)

I haven't really noticed much difference in my dreaming. Since actually meditating more regularly my recall has become appalling. That's mostly due to not keeping a DJ though. One thing I have noticed about meditation is that it can help me calm down so that I can fall asleep easier. If you treat meditation like hypnosis i.e. use auto-suggestions, it has the potential to be very helpful. I noticed that setting the alarm I used for DEILD as a timer for meditations helps me stay still upon waking and grants me more consciousness. So when the timer goes off while I'm asleep, it's something I'm used to hearing when in a meditative state so it doesn't startle me and cause me to move.

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Originally Posted by Spyguy

Sounds quite logical, but I don't really have the time to meditate an hour before breakfast :P I do it whenever I feel like doing it to be honest. It does sound like your method is more effective than mine though. About the 'deep meditation' method: can you tell me where to find it please?

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The book is here:
Amazon.com: Deep Meditation - Pathway to Personal Freedom (9780976465546): Yogani: Books

Audiobook here:
Amazon.com: Deep Meditation - Pathway to Personal Freedom - Audiobook: Yogani: MP3 Downloads

Best meditation method and training I have encountered so far. Thich Nhat Hanh also has a book called, "Blooming of the Lotus" which may prove interesting, but I can not recommend it since I have not read it. Also an in-depth guide to meditation, which is a good beginner's source, is here:
http://www.amazon.com/Meditation--De...248451&sr=1-28

- DreamBliss

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Originally Posted by zoth00

So, I was wondering how does meditation affect lucid dreaming, if it does so in a direct or indirect way, and if anyone took the time to analyse and post any results. I'm not refering to the obvious indirect advantages it provides, like improvement on clearing the mind and more easily focus on a mantra/ADA/WILD or decrease on the "mental noise" we usually possess (random thoughts during the day).

This is the main idea I've gathered from several sources around:

- In deep meditation, people seem to enter such state that can somewhat relate to the deep sleep stage. The regular and constant breathing, the abstraction of the mind regarding physical and external stimulus and the relaxed position of the body can be observed in both sleep and meditation (assuming naturally the differences in physiological characteristics of sleep vs awake state).

I also heard that performing meditation can reduce the amount of time you stay in deep sleep, thus entering in REM stage more quickly.

I found no evidences or anyone commenting on these things, so I'd like to hear some input about whether meditation can decrease the average time of deep sleep. Many oneironauts report that meditating a bit before focusing on your mantra (for example during WBTBs) helps, but is this only in the "mind clearance" department?

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I can't meditate my way out of a paper bag (I think it's ADD-related, or I'm just an unfocused idiot) so I've got nothing to add to the meat of this conversation, but I wanted to ask this one question: Why would you want to reduce the length of delta (deep) sleep? It's always been the most interesting -- and untappable -- phase of sleep for me...

I have never had a Lucid dream until I started Meditating about 2 years ago. Since, i have developed an unusual awareness while in the Dream State, like being able to Identify my real self within the dream and interact with other peoples and things with the same personality as in my waking state. Since I starting meditating, my Lucid Dreams have somehow evolved and have become more advanced and complex. For example "2 nights ago I had a dream which became Lucid after a trigger (which there always is for me) that caused me to become lucid. I felt so aware that i felt like I was actually there in the flesh, not just my mind. Although I told myself in this dream as i always seem to do, that I was dreaming, then to examine how real this dream felt to me, I perceived in thought, my actual reality based on an experience which triggers an emotional response. Much like we do when in the waking state, we perceive a thought or past experience which really happened. I did that in this dream world while I was still in it. I then was able to tell how real the dream felt compared to real life, then shortly after I awoke."

Meditation increases awareness, which helps with the DILD and recall. Another advantage to meditation is that a deep meditative state is exactly where you want to be when attempting a WILD, and it is basically necessary to be successfull with it. In general, meditation is useful for just about everything, and being in that state of mind feels powerful and clear.

Thank you previous poster for bringing this thread to my attention again!

I can no longer recommend Yogani or "dissolving thought" types of meditation. I can also no longer recommend any AYP training for now. This is VERY good:
http://youtu.be/D51WotfbpCE

I have yet to write anything on the subject of "focused awareness" VS "dissolving thoughts" but the 'ol brain is percolating...
- DreamBliss

I don't meditate (primary) as a means to something, if it does have positive things as a consequence, like making you less stressed, thinking more clear, realizing things about yourself, beneficial for dream recall and more awareness in dreams that's not the primary reason to why I meditate.

Meditation is though my way of sleeping. Meditation is conscious sleep, sleep is unconscious meditation. But this is a mean for lucid dreaming and can help with WILD.

I have noticed that the nights I meditate myself to sleep and by doing that staying aware through the process of sleep, those days I have very vivid dreams and high chances for lucid dreaming and that is just what I have discovered by own experience, so I am not sure if it would work for someone else. But meditation is a very broad word, so just to calrify when I say meditation I mean the focus of the breath. Meditation is also a very powerful mindset for lucid dreaming, not being concerned by ones emotions and getting upset by not succesful efforts.

Socrates argued this view with Calicles and Calicles said that to let go of the ego is just as enjoyable as living as a rock. Instead Calicles argued for the opposite view which was to have as much things running in one's life as possible. Although I have seen where that road leads you, and I think that sometimes one have to let go and be as unconcerned as a lifeless rock.

Like a stone... More about how that relates to lucid dreaming can be found here: Yoga Nidra or Conscious Sleep - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

But the primary reason to why I meditate is beyond that and is very hard to grasp. I meditate to achieve understanding of the core self and in a way detaching from my ego.

This is why it's both a means to my ego and at same time not a mean to my ego. Because how could it be? The goal of meditation is to attach the true self from the ego.

That's the paradox of meditation and what one has to try to understand. :meditate:

You know, I'm not exactly sure why I meditate. I guess I started it for "inner purification" per Yogani's instructions. Data on what it would do to me dream life seemed to suggest that it would help it. As my primary concern when I started to meditated was lucid dreaming and becoming lucid in waking life, I was a little worried on just what effect meditation would have on my dreaming state.

Looking back I'm not so sure it helped me. Then again with all I have gone through and my improper response to the vines, as well as some lucid dreams that left me disgusted with myself, well I don't think I can blame meditation. I may be able to blame the kind of meditation I was doing when I started, this "deep meditation", but still not sure on the pros and cons of "focused awareness Buddhist-type meditations" VS "dissolving thoughts deep and transcendental mediation."

Wrong choice or not I did have a sort of goal and that was to make meditation a habit because it was supposed to help me. I wasn't supposed to meditate because it helped me. Really I was only to see that as a pleasant side effect. Quieting the mind and all that, reigning in the thoughts.

But I'm a little weird. I do have thoughts, obviously, but I don't seem to have ever had any sort of consistent and constant "monkey-mind" chatter. For me meditation just amplified the way I already was to some extant. Helped me discipline, train, and focus the mind.

So why am I still meditating? Not sure. Habit I guess, also I like how I feel afterwards. Does help me sleep when my mind is racing before bed. Usually when I allow myself to worry about stuff or try to do something that awakens it. Then I have, in a sense, flipped a switch that is normally off. So I meditate to flip it back.

I do want to get to the point where I can go deep inside myself, or separate myself from myself entirely. I would like to experience Samadhi or bliss. And as a perfectionist I want to master correctly performing meditation. Do it right. Other than that - can't say.
- DreamBliss

Hi everyone. I will try to contribute to this thread. I am just going to copy and paste a PM that I wrote on the subject a few months ago.

Here it is:

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Originally Posted by sivason

Hi Opheliablue, I found about 5 minutes to type something up. You should probably edit it,as I just typed real quick at work. You can feel free to link to my visualization lesson for the appropriate part. Take a look and let me know if I can clarify anything. I will have time to spend on any questions on Saturday, but this should be the basic info people will need.


Meditation is a term for a broad range of practices that develop mental skills and personal awareness. Here are three examples of types of meditations and how they can help you on you lucid dreaming path.
Sensory Awareness Meditations: They are any mental practices were you try to stop the mind form thinking about things that are not taking place in the present moment, and instead truly feel and experience in various senses. By closing your eyes and paying close attention, you come to realize that your brain has been ignoring most of the world around you. The benefit to LDing is that you become keenly aware of how being awake truly feels, and you will then notice when any subtle thing is not right in a dream, thus increasing the effect of a reality check. Also, when in an LD you will have increased the amount of detail your brain can process, which leads to more vivid and life like dreams.
Visualization Meditations: This type of mental exercise involves developing the portion of your brain that is used in reproducing a real life sense in a dream or in meditation. The most straight forward type is called a guided meditation. In these a narrator describes a basic scene and helps you relax and imagine the scene. This is very effective at training the imagination and can lead to truly seeing the scenes described. More advanced visualization meditations involve learning to actively harness the ability to recreate sensory stimuli by intent. Visualization meditations are very useful in LDing as a means of mastering dream control and changing the scene into one of your creation. They are also very useful in WILD attempts, as visualizing can take the place of thinking, to keep your mind aware, but not over stimulate your waking mind.
Mental Discipline Meditations: In this type of meditation you learn to keep the mind from wandering. The type of discipline worked on can vary from trying to only think about a single subject or word, to trying to avoid thinking at all. The benefit to LDing is the ability to eliminate the random aspects of your dream, such as annoying DCs and events you did not consciously choose to create. It is also very important in WILD attempts, as you will be able to stay aware, but avoid thinking about the stresses of your daily life.

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I am attempting to teach this stuff to anyone interested in the DVA class here, Dream Yoga (Sivason)
Feel free to join or just read the lessons if anyone is interested.

I found meditation to be helpful for increasing vividness in my dreams, I don't know if it REALLY helps with lucidity.

I'm a Christian, so I will sometimes meditate on scripture at night, which does improve my state of mind and the quality of my dreams, but since that's not exactly the same kind of meditation you're talking about, I don't know if my experience is too applicable.