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      Dream Yoga Experiences

      Does anyone practice dream or sleep yoga? If so, did you learn from a master or self taught? What are experiences with this and how has in changed your worldview?

      I recently began reading The Tibetan Yogas of Sleep and Dream and am starting to practice the techniques described. I have already had some interesting synchronicities with dreams I had before reading the book, and would love to hear other's experiences.

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      I've been practicing dream yoga for about 20 years, but I only found out it had a name about ten years ago. So I guess I was self-taught.

      What are my experiences with it and how has it changed my world view? That might take a while to answer; give me a bit and I'll come up with something. In a nutshell, though, I'm not sure whether dream yoga changed my worldview, or my changing worldview brought on the dream yoga, but suffice it to say that my explorations in lucid dreaming were transforming into an exploration of self-awareness, consciousness, and transcendence. In a sense, LD'ing had become a tool rather than an end in itself, and that new end, or new goal, became what is best described as dream and, ultimately, sleep yoga.

      You've chosen a good book to read, I think, as it is as clear on this subject as a book can be (though it does lose its way a bit, perhaps intentionally, in the sleep yoga section).

      I'm glad you started this thread, Hermine, as this is something that definitely should be talked about here, and it seems to be regularly ignored in favor of the latest "techniques."

      More later, I'm sure, though I'll likely only be complementing (and no doubt complimenting) Sivason's contribution...
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      I used to help run workshops at the local Tibetan Center. I was all about dream yoga. It was one of the main ways I learned how to lucid dream.

      I was eventually turned off by their over-reliance on specific symbolism and terminology. I believe dreaming should be taught in the most open and accessible way possible. It is what makes dreaming such a remarkable path to wisdom and enlightenment. It is available to everyone: all ages, all experience levels. Everyone dreams. It is a common language we have all been familiar with since birth.

      I found the reliance on tradition and symbolism became a limiting factor for most students. Tibet has a fascinating, rich, and interesting history. There is a lot of great stuff to sink your teeth into, but also a lot to distract yourself with. The exoticism can be distracting.

      I found that many students felt they should be dreaming in a certain, very specific way. Instead of looking at the end goal, they would become focused on short term frustrations with language and symbolism. Symbolism works only when it triggers a deep and direct connection. It is not something you can easily pick up late in life. It is like learning Spanish so you can study abroad in Madrid to get your degree in French Literature.

      That being said, I obviously believe Tibetan dream yoga is an amazing thing to study. It is fascinating, even if you never apply any of it. Most people with experience dreaming immediately connect with most of the big ideas. Lucidity as a way to break the karmic cycle is a big one. Another good one is the idea that dying is like a dream. (I think every lucid dreamer has considered that at some point )

      The book you are reading is one of my favorites, because of the same reasons I just outlined. It does a good job of delivering the important concepts without getting too caught up in tradition. It is on my short list of books to read at 4am with a belly full of galantamine.

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      Oops, kinda sad I didn't notice this thread earlier.
      I follow some of the practices that the book you are reading teaches: accepting waking life and dream life as one to eliminate duality and to try, make judgement from a higher awareness rather than initial thoughts and/or feelings and going to sleep aware. I think that has really helped my lucidity - since practicing this, as soon as I got into a frequent routine of it approx after 1 month, i began having regular lucid dreams. i.e. >2/week.
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      Quote Originally Posted by Robot_Butler View Post
      I used to help run workshops at the local Tibetan Center. I was all about dream yoga. It was one of the main ways I learned how to lucid dream.

      I was eventually turned off by their over-reliance on specific symbolism and terminology. I believe dreaming should be taught in the most open and accessible way possible. It is what makes dreaming such a remarkable path to wisdom and enlightenment. It is available to everyone: all ages, all experience levels. Everyone dreams. It is a common language we have all been familiar with since birth.

      I found the reliance on tradition and symbolism became a limiting factor for most students. Tibet has a fascinating, rich, and interesting history. There is a lot of great stuff to sink your teeth into, but also a lot to distract yourself with. The exoticism can be distracting.

      I found that many students felt they should be dreaming in a certain, very specific way. Instead of looking at the end goal, they would become focused on short term frustrations with language and symbolism. Symbolism works only when it triggers a deep and direct connection. It is not something you can easily pick up late in life. It is like learning Spanish so you can study abroad in Madrid to get your degree in French Literature.

      That being said, I obviously believe Tibetan dream yoga is an amazing thing to study. It is fascinating, even if you never apply any of it. Most people with experience dreaming immediately connect with most of the big ideas. Lucidity as a way to break the karmic cycle is a big one. Another good one is the idea that dying is like a dream. (I think every lucid dreamer has considered that at some point )

      The book you are reading is one of my favorites, because of the same reasons I just outlined. It does a good job of delivering the important concepts without getting too caught up in tradition. It is on my short list of books to read at 4am with a belly full of galantamine.
      Robot_Butler, though it's a shame that you got your first exposure to dream yoga in such a manner, it's nice that you were able to recognize its value anyway. Dream yoga is not a very good "workshop" event, I think, in that it is an extremely individual event, and I am not surprised that much discussion fell to least common denominators like language and symbolism, neither of which are too terribly important in actual practice. Indeed, that reliance on tradition and symbolism was a shortcoming of the teachers (or perhaps all they could offer in a workshop environment), not dream yoga. I think if I were teaching a dream yoga class I would probably send everyone home after about five minutes with a small list of instructions and tell them to return in a year with progress reports; there's really not much else to do...

      It's cool you keep the book nearby, but be careful even of it, as it too tries to sneak in those terms and tradition, even though its general theme is aimed in the correct direction.
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      Quote Originally Posted by Sageous View Post
      Robot_Butler, though it's a shame that you got your first exposure to dream yoga in such a manner, it's nice that you were able to recognize its value anyway. Dream yoga is not a very good "workshop" event, I think, in that it is an extremely individual event, and I am not surprised that much discussion fell to least common denominators like language and symbolism, neither of which are too terribly important in actual practice. Indeed, that reliance on tradition and symbolism was a shortcoming of the teachers (or perhaps all they could offer in a workshop environment), not dream yoga. I think if I were teaching a dream yoga class I would probably send everyone home after about five minutes with a small list of instructions and tell them to return in a year with progress reports; there's really not much else to do...

      It's cool you keep the book nearby, but be careful even of it, as it too tries to sneak in those terms and tradition, even though its general theme is aimed in the correct direction.
      If you have the time, you should create a thread with just that anyway!

      Any questions about lucid dreaming? Drop me a PM here!

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      Quote Originally Posted by fOrceez View Post
      If you have the time, you should create a thread with just that anyway!
      Think anyone'll come back in a year?

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      Make it a few months, then. And I'd totally be around
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      Any questions about lucid dreaming? Drop me a PM here!

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      LOL! Funny thing is I have never seen this book.. I may want to get it mailed to me so I can use terminology the book goes over or so I could give examples from the book. It seems like lots of people have read that one. Cool. Amazon is so cool. I will read it before long.

      As far as people being self taught, here is a point. Many yogi types are doing this stuff lifetime after lifetime. So, they mearly need to remember, not learn. I started experimenting with dream yoga at about age ten, but it took until 15 to have LDs and 17 to have them often. I did have a Kundallini Master as my first physical teacher. My interaction with him lasted about 5 years from 19-24ish. I met an Aiki-o-komi spirit at a large Shinto ritual and have recieved special energy alterations that have helped. I have also recieved instruction from 2 diferrent teachers in the dream realm.

      I justed worked a 14 hour day and am fading fast. I should just ppick a couple random thoughts to post and think about it more tomorrow. 1) Through Dream Yoga you can actually learn to master magical forces in waking life. The chakras and so on are much easier to feel and explore in an LD and it allows you to learn to do it eventually while awake. 2)You can have profound spiritual experiences with Dream Yoga. If you learn to really project your voice out into the dream and call out something like "Thank You" so powerfully that the dream world vibrates with the sound, it is a heck of of a spiritual rush.
      Good night, yawn.
      Peace Be With You. Oh, and sure, The Force too, why not.



      "Instruction in Dream Yoga"

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      Thank you everyone for your replies.

      Quote Originally Posted by Sageous View Post
      I think if I were teaching a dream yoga class I would probably send everyone home after about five minutes with a small list of instructions and tell them to return in a year with progress reports; there's really not much else to do...
      I would love to hear this as well. I would come back in a year

      Quote Originally Posted by sivason View Post
      As far as people being self taught, here is a point. Many yogi types are doing this stuff lifetime after lifetime. So, they mearly need to remember, not learn. I started experimenting with dream yoga at about age ten, but it took until 15 to have LDs and 17 to have them often. I did have a Kundallini Master as my first physical teacher. My interaction with him lasted about 5 years from 19-24ish. I met an Aiki-o-komi spirit at a large Shinto ritual and have recieved special energy alterations that have helped. I have also recieved instruction from 2 diferrent teachers in the dream realm.
      Do you find it is important to have experience with both a dream realm master and physical realm master? If so, how did you go about finding a physical realm master? I believe I have found my dream realm instructor, but his appearance is still sporadic...

      Quote Originally Posted by sivason View Post
      If you learn to really project your voice out into the dream and call out something like "Thank You" so powerfully that the dream world vibrates with the sound, it is a heck of of a spiritual rush.
      I've been trying to develop my dream voice, and experienced something like this for the first time recently. However, since I was still testing out my voice, I was just saying "Hellooooo." I hadn't thought to use this same kind of energy to convey Thanks, a prayer, or intent.
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      fOrceez has been trying to get me to read this book, and I will get around to it at some point, it certainly does seem like it contains a lot of valuable information in terms of helping to establish an awareness of constant dreaming which to me is something I've been looking to do for a long while.


      Quote Originally Posted by sivason View Post
      If you learn to really project your voice out into the dream and call out something like "Thank You" so powerfully that the dream world vibrates with the sound, it is a heck of of a spiritual rush.
      Good night, yawn.
      I did this once completing a Task Of The Month which involved getting a DC to sing to you - and I started singing to the dream and had a choir of an entire city start singing along with my voice - the vibration of the entire world is definitely a rush

      Did you learn about energy control through your pursuit of dream yoga or separately with your teachers? I've been learning to control my energy aside from dreaming, but I've definitely noticed the effect it can have on your dreams, and the ease of control when you're in the dream itself
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      Quote Originally Posted by Dark_Merlin View Post

      Did you learn about energy control through your pursuit of dream yoga or separately with your teachers? I've been learning to control my energy aside from dreaming, but I've definitely noticed the effect it can have on your dreams, and the ease of control when you're in the dream itself
      I was a natural with the Energy Work, I really only had to remember it. I think self exploration is the core focus all Yogas share. I did recieve real world training with a master, but I had all ready been figurinng it out on my own for a few years before meeting him. I think the use of a book or some good advice will carry you so far if you really try, that you may never need an earthly teacher. Do not become rigid or dogmatic trying to do things exactly as a book or teacher advise you. All Yogic knowledge is available by practicing a few basics and following where it leads you. Sageous made the comment about teaching for 5 minutes and then giving a year to explore it. That is how it really has to be. The basics take a lot of patients and attention over a period of months. I usually give instruction this way and many people loose intrest.
      This is an example. The manipulation of energy during waking or dream yoga can be a fascinating thing to explore in many variations, but until you can actually precieve the energy it is not of any use for me to teach you how to manipulate it. Now, after the student can feel and maybe even see the energy the instruction can go quicker. It is less difficult lets say to learn a trick on a bike then it was to actually learn to ride the bike.

      The ease of Energy Work while in the dream is one of the very valuable things about this kind of yoga. You can learn to harness and manipulate energy in the dream, and it actually teaches you the proper way to do it while awake, which is harder.
      Peace Be With You. Oh, and sure, The Force too, why not.



      "Instruction in Dream Yoga"

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      Quote Originally Posted by hermine_hesse View Post
      Do you find it is important to have experience with both a dream realm master and physical realm master? If so, how did you go about finding a physical realm master? I believe I have found my dream realm instructor, but his appearance is still sporadic...

      .
      I think you can learn many lifetimes worth of amazing things through self exploration and just a helping hand, that may be a few good books or just a forum like this. I mainy needed the instructor to answer questions as I progressed rather than having someone spoon feed things to me. I have had two dream world instructors and they have never let me decide what we would study next or when. This path requires a willingness to settle into a lifetime of seeking. I would for instance be drug around be my first guide and she would yank me through a wall and then have me try to walk through it. I may smack my nose, or get it strecthed around my face like rubber. She drug me down beneath the ground and made me figure out how to get loose. Then she would explain everything, I would pay close attention and understand what she was saying, but upon waking the memory of exactly what she said would be cloudy. I had better then practice walking through walls every LD I had before I could expect any more help.
      Peace Be With You. Oh, and sure, The Force too, why not.



      "Instruction in Dream Yoga"

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      What is Dream Yoga? I imagine it is an odd thought and a bit mysterious to many readers. The first idea that may come up is just a systematic way to train your LD skills. It of course involves that, but to me it is deeper than that. I think Sageous feels the same way; he mentioned transendance and a few other things that imply a path of growth. That is the heart of it. LDs are cool, but it can be about so much more than learning to fly. Dream Yoga is the use of training in LDs and other skills that can lead one to more self knowledge and further their choosen spiritual path. The religious side of Dream Yoga can fit into any one's own personal belief system. A Christian can still become a Dream Yogi and may then follow a path of singing praise along side angels, and through the creation of their own dream cathedral, or simply use it as a self development tool and save the worship for the waking world.
      My point is, what is the difference between Dream Yoga and just training for LDs? The intent. Dream Yoga is a personal pursute of self improvement and discovery, added in with an intent to further your spiritual awareness, with in the context of your own belief system. You still get to learn to fly, but that is not all you are after.
      Peace Be With You. Oh, and sure, The Force too, why not.



      "Instruction in Dream Yoga"

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      What is dream yoga?

      I’ll take a shot:

      I think it is the development of a state of mind, a condition of self-awareness and spiritual openness that allows a dreamer to see past the duality of human perception and reason in order to witness his dream-world as a single creation sprung from his own mind. Once this understanding is in place, the dreamer can carry that state of mind, of constant self-awareness and openness to wonder, into both waking life and death.

      Death, indeed, is the real use the yogis found for this practice, via the natural extension of dream yoga: sleep yoga. This is because they are sure that, if they can master carrying their self-awareness through every moment of existence, including the deepest phase of sleep (the one we westerners call Delta), then they can hold onto their self-awareness through the last moment, death, and on to whatever lies beyond corporeal life. In Buddhist and I think Hindu terms, this means they can jump off the Wheel of Life and guide their souls through enlightenment and on to explore new, greater spiritual potentials.

      Given these two thoughts, I can see how dream yoga, once “discovered” by some LD’ing sort long ago, was quickly folded into religious life. It makes sense, because the given results of perfect dream yoga practice imply both an afterlife and that ever-elusive “Something Greater.”

      If you can part yourself from the religious tenets (which I’d bet, though I do not know, the dream yoga masters try to get their students to do, first thing) and allow your imagination to create, observe, and interact freely in the dream state, the dream yoga becomes a very, very powerful tool indeed, one that can vastly exceed its humble lucid dreaming roots. How so? Because, once you’ve established that this entire reality you’re currently floating in is nothing more than you, that there is no separation between your self and your environs, you can imagine new (or very old) worlds, new people, and, above all else, create novel metaphors which can be used to explore the endless places and psychic conditions that lie beyond human experience. And, if your dreams are actually portals to other worlds or other minds, here is where you will find, identify, and negotiate those portals!

      Now back to the religious tenets. If the articles of faith you hold are true or (here is the best part) if you truly believe, to the core of your soul, that they are true, then dream yoga will take you to them “physically.” In other words, you’ll see the Buddha, or God, or Allah, or Neo, or etc., and you’ll be able to commune easily with the souls of those you loved in life, living or dead. And, you’ll be able to rattle the loom from which the very fabric of reality was woven. All from simply paying attention, and keeping your self-awareness intact and pure!

      Okay, that’s enough for now. I know I left out far more than I included here, but the more you talk about a thing that can and must be described in a sentence, the more it is diluted into incomprehensible blather. So, suffice it to say that Dream Yoga is the practice of holding self-awareness through all states of being, and applying those states to your conscious existence,
      Last edited by Sageous; 04-06-2012 at 07:32 PM.
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      That is an inspiring summary, Sageous. You just made my day

      Don't think of dream yoga as a religion. Think of it as a practice, a discipline, or a path. The philosophy and wisdom are learned from the experiences. We do not tailor the practice to fit with a predetermined philosophy. This is an important distinction, as it is the difference between faith and experience. If you are a lucid dreamer, you are already on the path. If you like the meditations and exercises taught in the book, adopt them. If you prefer more familiar methods, they will work just as well.

      I would always introduce dream yoga with the concept of Karma. It is an idea everyone is familiar with. Our actions have an impact on the world. The world influences our actions. Any time we react without thinking, we are at the mercy of karma. We are acting according to how we have acted in the past, and how the world has pushed us. That is not acting, it is reacting. Dreams are a perfect example of this. In a normal dream, we react to the chaos and confusion of the dream, thinking it is a force outside ourselves. Once we become lucid, we realize we have been generating the dream the whole time. With lucidity, comes agency. We can now act mindfully and willfully. We can break the karmic cycle of dreaming. With lucidity, we can now determine both our own actions, and the path of the dream.

      This is the core of dream yoga. It is about becoming aware enough to direct our own karma. We can learn to be mindful of the path we are taking in dreams, in life, and in death.
      Last edited by Robot_Butler; 04-06-2012 at 06:40 PM.
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      Quote Originally Posted by Robot_Butler View Post
      This is the core of dream yoga. It is about becoming aware enough to direct our own karma. We can learn to be mindful of the path we are taking in dreams, in life, and in death.
      And there it is, that single line. I would have thrown in a note about prajna -- the wisdom they say results from doing all this stuff -- but truly 'Nuff said; I might not have posted at all had you written your post first. Funny how this stuff works!
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      Quote Originally Posted by Sageous View Post
      What is dream yoga?

      I’ll take a shot:

      I think it is the development of a state of mind, a condition of self-awareness and spiritual openness that allows a dreamer to see past the duality of human perception and reason in order to witness his dream-world as a single creation sprung from his own mind. Once this understanding is in place, the dreamer can carry that state of mind, of constant self-awareness and openness to wonder, into both waking life and death.

      Death, indeed, is the real use the yogis found for this practice, via the natural extension of dream yoga: sleep yoga. This is because they are sure that, if they can master carrying their self-awareness through every moment of existence, including the deepest phase of sleep (the one we westerners call Delta), then they can hold onto their self-awareness through the last moment, death, and on to whatever lies beyond corporeal life. In Buddhist and I think Hindu terms, this means they can jump off the Wheel of Life and guide their souls through enlightenment and on to explore new, greater spiritual potentials.

      Given these two thoughts, I can see how dream yoga, once “discovered” by some LD’ing sort long ago, was quickly folded into religious life. It makes sense, because the given results of perfect dream yoga practice imply both an afterlife and that ever-elusive “Something Greater.”

      If you can part yourself from the religious tenets (which I’d bet, though I do not know, the dream yoga masters try to get their students to do, first thing) and allow your imagination to create, observe, and interact freely in the dream state, the dream yoga becomes a very, very powerful tool indeed, one that can vastly exceed its humble lucid dreaming roots. How so? Because, once you’ve established that this entire reality you’re currently floating in is nothing more than you, that there is no separation between your self and your environs, you can imagine new (or very old) worlds, new people, and, above all else, create novel metaphors which can be used to explore the endless places and psychic conditions that lie beyond human experience. And, if your dreams are actually portals to other worlds or other minds, here is where you will find, identify, and negotiate those portals!

      Now back to the religious tenets. If the articles of faith you hold are true or (here is the best part) if you truly believe, to the core of your soul, that they are true, then dream yoga will take you to them “physically.” In other words, you’ll see the Buddha, or God, or Allah, or Neo, or etc., and you’ll be able to commune easily with the souls of those you loved in life, living or dead. And, you’ll be able to rattle the loom from which the very fabric of reality was woven. All from simply paying attention, and keeping your self-awareness intact and pure!

      Okay, that’s enough for now. I know I left out far more than I included here, but the more you talk about a thing that can and must be described in a sentence, the more it is diluted into incomprehensible blather. So, suffice it to say that Dream Yoga is the practice of holding self-awareness through all states of being, and applying those states to your conscious existence,


      I support everything sageous says here. Getting caught up in Dogma and details is not going to be helpful. While a Christian or Muslim, can fit the art of Dream Yoga in to the context of their religion, they shhould still be intending to learn new things about themselves and the nature of reality. Why bother a life long prusute of something if yoou intend to force it to stay where you imagined it on day one?
      The Tibetian Book of the Dead is a source for the support of what he says about death. It is through mastering awareness in every state that guided reincarnation or moving to higher realms can take place at death. The guided reincarnation is what I have focused on. I like I-pods and Chinese buffets, so I think I will keep myself in the Wheel of Life and Death for a long time to come. The idea is that by learning to master Dream Yoga, you can basically preform a RC sometime soon after death and it will work. You will have become lucid in death. Now instead of leaving the physical realm you have the option of trying to explore death like a LD. You should then examine the world and think about what kind of body and what area you wish to be born in. The Tibetian Book of the Dead, goes so far as to worn you to checkout the parents first and try to find a happy situation where you will have access to the knowledge that you would like to have. You are dead and use your lucid skills to summon the DCs and the situation you are imagining. You then enterr the scene like it is a lucid dream. In the dream the woman gets pregnat and you play the role of her fetus. Then you let go and get reborn, hopefully in the situation that most closely matches you death LD version. The book is very specific on how to do this, but it requires the skills to be developed during life.
      Last edited by sivason; 04-06-2012 at 10:06 PM.
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      "Instruction in Dream Yoga"

    19. #19
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      Somewhere up there I said this:

      I think if I were teaching a dream yoga class I would probably send everyone home after about five minutes with a small list of instructions and tell them to return in a year with progress reports; there's really not much else to do...
      Well, F0rceez and Hermine_Hesse expressed an interest in what I would say were I to actually have a class like this and, though I'm not sure it would work as a new thread (sorry, F0rceez), I think it might help here, especially because I just thought of it all off the top of my head, and here seems like the place to learn what I missed, or why some of these thoughts are wrong.

      So, for better or worse:

      How would I do that five-minute instruction? Well, I’d probably preamble with something like my post above, and then give my would-be students a “homework” assignment made up of the following tasks in no particular order:

      * Master the WILD/DEILD technique, to a point where you succeed every time you really want to LD, without caring about the hypnagogic or SP bells and whistles. The process of this mastering will both prepare your physical body with proper hard-wiring, and your mind with the correct attitudes about maintaining self-awareness through difficult transitions.

      * Do some reading. Start with a well-annotated Tibetan Book of the Dead, then read the first Upanishads and maybe the Bhagivad Gita. Then read A Call to the Center by Pennington (the Catholic version of this stuff)*, and, of course The Tibetan Yogas of Dream and Sleep . Though it’s a little off topic, I would also suggest reading What Dreams May Come by Matheson – better yet, watch the Robin Williams movie, because in this case it’s better than the book, because it really captures the imagination, visualization, and power of self that drives sleep yoga.

      There would be more discussion about what to read or see, I’m sure, and, given that there’s plenty of good work out there that I might overlook or be unaware of, The reading/watching list might change dramatically with each “class.” I would only suggest that students avoid pop-culture nonsense like Inception or the Matrix, because they tend to misdirect more than help.

      * Establish and maintain an All Day Awareness habit, with a slight twist. Instead of just being aware of things, be aware of your presence in those things, and wonder, really wonder, each time where you just were, where you are going, and where you are now. At the same time, wonder, really wonder, what effect you’re having on others around you and reality in general (there always is one, no matter how miniscule), and what effect others and reality itself is having on you (there always is one, no matter how miniscule). [Some of you may have heard me say this before, especially in my Lucid Dreaming Fundamentals thread… this is that important!]

      * Exercise your LD’ing skills, to the point where dream control is second nature, and you can separate yourself completely from any existing dream without replacing it with another dream.

      * Work on a real sense of “right-mindfulness,” where being good to others, and yourself, becomes the norm, and not the goal, in your life.

      * When you have a question about something, ask only yourself for answers; don’t look to an “authority,” a guru, or even call me. This year is a time for you to explore on your own, where there is no correct answer, only your experience. Any advice from someone else, no matter how sage, will only serve to muddle. This year is for you to absorb, practice and learn. Trust your self.

      * Dream. A lot. They can be LD’s, NonLD’s, and everything in between. Just dream, and pay attention to them all. Don’t seek to interpret, or worry too much about recall, just explore the worlds your mind creates, bask in the infinite creation, and enjoy every moment. This immersion will help you resolve the difficult duality problem necessary to practice dream yoga. Oh, and it’s a lot of fun, and what good is any adventure without joy?

      Also, that attention you’re paying will teach you to spot anomalies like, for instance, people who should not be in the dream you just created…this could matter quite a bit later.

      After assigning these tasks, I would ask if anyone has completed all of them, assuming that there won’t be a flurry of hands in the air. Then, I would send the students on their way, wondering quietly if I would see any of them in a year. Or two.

      I’m sure many here would disagree with this approach, and, because I could be totally wrong, I’d love to hear some counterpoints…



      * I know, I know -- what's with all the religious texts when you just said it's best to steer clear of dogma? Well, it's not the religion in these texts that matter, it's the worldview and the attitude they project. These texts carry much that existed before their content became tenet, and that is the info to draw upon.
      Last edited by Sageous; 04-07-2012 at 01:04 AM.

    20. #20
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      Quote Originally Posted by Sageous View Post
      Somewhere up there I said this:



      Well, F0rceez and Hermine_Hesse expressed an interest in what I would say were I to actually have a class like this and, though I'm not sure it would work as a new thread (sorry, F0rceez), I think it might help here, especially because I just thought of it all off the top of my head, and here seems like the place to learn what I missed, or why some of these thoughts are wrong.

      So, for better or worse:

      How would I do that five-minute instruction? Well, I’d probably preamble with something like my post above, and then give my would-be students a “homework” assignment made up of the following tasks in no particular order:

      * Master the WILD/DEILD technique, to a point where you succeed every time you really want to LD, without caring about the hypnagogic or SP bells and whistles. The process of this mastering will both prepare your physical body with proper hard-wiring, and your mind with the correct attitudes about maintaining self-awareness through difficult transitions.

      * Do some reading. Start with a well-annotated Tibetan Book of the Dead, then read the first Upanishads and maybe the Bhagivad Gita. Then read A Call to the Center by Pennington (the Catholic version of this stuff)*, and, of course The Tibetan Yogas of Dream and Sleep . Though it’s a little off topic, I would also suggest reading What Dreams May Come by Matheson – better yet, watch the Robin Williams movie, because in this case it’s better than the book, because it really captures the imagination, visualization, and power of self that drives sleep yoga.

      There would be more discussion about what to read or see, I’m sure, and, given that there’s plenty of good work out there that I might overlook or be unaware of, The reading/watching list might change dramatically with each “class.” I would only suggest that students avoid pop-culture nonsense like Inception or the Matrix, because they tend to misdirect more than help.

      * Establish and maintain an All Day Awareness habit, with a slight twist. Instead of just being aware of things, be aware of your presence in those things, and wonder, really wonder, each time where you just were, where you are going, and where you are now. At the same time, wonder, really wonder, what effect you’re having on others around you and reality in general (there always is one, no matter how miniscule), and what effect others and reality itself is having on you (there always is one, no matter how miniscule). [Some of you may have heard me say this before, especially in my Lucid Dreaming Fundamentals thread… this is that important!]

      * Exercise your LD’ing skills, to the point where dream control is second nature, and you can separate yourself completely from any existing dream without replacing it with another dream.

      * Work on a real sense of “right-mindfulness,” where being good to others, and yourself, becomes the norm, and not the goal, in your life.

      * When you have a question about something, ask only yourself for answers; don’t look to an “authority,” a guru, or even call me. This year is a time for you to explore on your own, where there is no correct answer, only your experience. Any advice from someone else, no matter how sage, will only serve to muddle. This year is for you to absorb, practice and learn. Trust your self.

      * Dream. A lot. They can be LD’s, NonLD’s, and everything in between. Just dream, and pay attention to them all. Don’t seek to interpret, or worry too much about recall, just explore the worlds your mind creates, bask in the infinite creation, and enjoy every moment. This immersion will help you resolve the difficult duality problem necessary to practice dream yoga. Oh, and it’s a lot of fun, and what good is any adventure without joy?

      Also, that attention you’re paying will teach you to spot anomalies like, for instance, people who should not be in the dream you just created…this could matter quite a bit later.

      After assigning these tasks, I would ask if anyone has completed all of them, assuming that there won’t be a flurry of hands in the air. Then, I would send the students on their way, wondering quietly if I would see any of them in a year. Or two.

      I’m sure many here would disagree with this approach, and, because I could be totally wrong, I’d love to hear some counterpoints…



      * I know, I know -- what's with all the religious texts when you just said it's best to steer clear of dogma? Well, it's not the religion in these texts that matter, it's the worldview and the attitude they project. These texts carry much that existed before their content became tenet, and that is the info to draw upon.


      No, I don't think anyone will disagree with your approach.. Teaching is a huge challenge. Trying to teach a student who does not actually spend the time to develop the skills is pointless. The 1 year apporoach you suggest makes alot of sense.
      I am not critacizing anything Sageous just suggested, but I will add a comment or two. As me and Sageous have decades of experience he may be underestimating just how long it takes to initally master any of these skills. I would be interested how many of the members can actually WILD on more than the rarest occassion. It seems common place after a few decades, but I think with the fairly advanced meditative skills and high level of awareness involved, WILD takes years to get very good at. Maybe I would modify the course to include getting very good at the MILD version of DILD and to have explored with some success the process of DEILD, but I think in one years time I would be happy with a student understanding the WILD concept.
      As far ass books and movies, I think the movie "What Dreams May Come" is absolutly a needed study. If you have not watched it get your butt on Netfllix and watch it tonight! I however would suggest that the studentdoes watch The Matrix and Vanilla Sky. They may be misleading in some ways, but the intent was to portray LDing and it gets people excited and tthey are fun. I suggest with all reading and books that you do not take anything as truth, but use them to give you ideas.

      My own approach would involve giving some practicable basic visualization and meditative techniques that they could work on while awake.
      Hebdomeros likes this.
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      "Instruction in Dream Yoga"

    21. #21
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      ^^ You're right, Sivason.

      I should've thrown in an additional note about the fact that after that year the students would be ready to learn, not fully educated. If someone actually showed up with a report after a year, then the lessons might begin! I think the "homework" serves more to confirm the scope of dream yoga than to guarantee success at it...if success at it is even a thing, now that I think about it. This sort of goes back to my original point to Robot_Butler about my belief that "workshops" on dream yoga might not have a great deal of value.

      Yes, it took me many, many years to develop half the assignments I listed, and the rest are still, um, in the mail. Dream yoga is a long-term commitment and, I've found, sleep yoga makes dream yoga look speedy. I should have been more clear: what that first year or two would give students more a sense of potentiality than a sense of real knowledge or success.

      That said, you underestimate the drive of a genuine initiate; the LD'ing skills I listed, for instance, would certainly be attainable -- I'd probably have more trouble teaching them to adapt ADA, establish right-mindfulness, or, ironically enough, enjoy their dreams than to master the straight discipline stuff.

      That said, you make an excellent point about WILD, and the fact that the experience of a true conscious passage from wake to sleep is much more difficult, and consequently much rarer, than the folks on this forum want to believe. That said, though it would do no harm to insert DILD or MILD into the program because an LD of any kind is helpful, I truly believe that the experience of WILD is almost seamlessly analogous to dream yoga practice, so somewhere along the way the skill's going to be necessary. Maybe DEILD is a good mid-term goal...

      I forgot about Vanilla Sky -- the original version -- thanks for the reminder. Also, thanks for clarifying that nothing in print (or film) should be taken as "gospel;" so true!

      Good points all; thanks!
      Last edited by Sageous; 04-07-2012 at 05:52 AM.
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    22. #22
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      Thanks for sharing everything, all! Love it, especially these points;
      Quote Originally Posted by Sageous View Post
      * Master the WILD/DEILD technique, to a point where you succeed every time you really want to LD, without caring about the hypnagogic or SP bells and whistles. The process of this mastering will both prepare your physical body with proper hard-wiring, and your mind with the correct attitudes about maintaining self-awareness through difficult transitions.

      * Establish and maintain an All Day Awareness habit, with a slight twist. Instead of just being aware of things, be aware of your presence in those things, and wonder, really wonder, each time where you just were, where you are going, and where you are now. At the same time, wonder, really wonder, what effect you’re having on others around you and reality in general (there always is one, no matter how miniscule), and what effect others and reality itself is having on you (there always is one, no matter how miniscule). [Some of you may have heard me say this before, especially in my Lucid Dreaming Fundamentals thread… this is that important!]
      * When you have a question about something, ask only yourself for answers; don’t look to an “authority,” a guru, or even call me. This year is a time for you to explore on your own, where there is no correct answer, only your experience. Any advice from someone else, no matter how sage, will only serve to muddle. This year is for you to absorb, practice and learn. Trust your self.

      * Dream. A lot. They can be LD’s, NonLD’s, and everything in between. Just dream, and pay attention to them all. Don’t seek to interpret, or worry too much about recall, just explore the worlds your mind creates, bask in the infinite creation, and enjoy every moment. This immersion will help you resolve the difficult duality problem necessary to practice dream yoga. Oh, and it’s a lot of fun, and what good is any adventure without joy?
      When getting used to the daily awareness and attempting to carry awareness over from waking to sleep to dream, I found that gave me many more lucids. A lot of the time I would have trouble figuring out whether the induction was MILD, DILD or WILD.
      Absolutely love everything you guys are sharing. Thanks, a lot!

      Any questions about lucid dreaming? Drop me a PM here!

    23. #23
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      http://www.dreamviews.com/f12/sivaso...pics-q-129943/

      I don't know if this will explain much, but here is a link to a thread of mine. It so far is just copy and paste of questions I have already answered, so any of you that read my stuff will nnotice it is just that same stuff. I will add to it when i answer new questions or if anyone who reads the thread has anything they want to talk about.
      Peace Be With You. Oh, and sure, The Force too, why not.



      "Instruction in Dream Yoga"

    24. #24
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      Thanks for all the advice Sageous, your "homework" assignments help confirm for me that I am on the right path. These are all things I am already working on cultivating, although I still have a long way to go before mastering these skills. (Also, I just added What Dreams May Come to the top of my Netflix que).

      Quote Originally Posted by Sageous View Post
      That said, you make an excellent point about WILD, and the fact that the experience of a true conscious passage from wake to sleep is much more difficult, and consequently much rarer, than the folks on this forum want to believe.
      This is actually refreshing to hear. The way people talk about WILD on this site, I would think everyone's doing it all the time. I've only done it a few times in my life - a long time ago before I knew what it was even called. Every time I achieved a true passage from wake to sleep, it was without "trying" to WILD, just maintaining a level of awareness and intent to LD.
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      Im not to sure if meditating until I achieve a lucid dream is dream yoga or not, but here it goes. This morning I met my super consciousness and it taught me what it was like for other people to talk to me. I learned what it is like to be around me when I am rude and crabby. I was not in a dream, I was the dream and the dream was me. I had no form, but that which I wished, for the whole dream in itself was me. I had knowledge of myself close within reach and gained some of it. I also learned how to be more lucid.
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