Does Lucid Dreaming Have a Deeper Purpose?

or maybe there's more to it than just having fun? i've been thinking about this and even though lucid dreaming can be learned, not everyone can do it. is it a gift or just a skill? our language creates a barrier within us, the word dream implies to us that the state we enter while we're asleep is a false reality. if things like the collective unconscious exist isn't it possible that we're connecting with it while we dream? or maybe we have access to our genetic memory? i just feel like it's possible that lucid dreaming isn't being used to it's full potential. maybe just using it for sex and whatnot is abusing it. and i'm not just talking about using it for solely self improvement or things having to do with the subconscious.

I agreed. I can't think of a better purpose in lucid dreams than to better understand ourselves. Other than that, most of us seem to be using it to enjoy ourselves.

I believe lucid dreaming is a skill. It can be picked up because I'm not a born lucid dreamer. I came in contact with a lot of LD related things before I got my first lucid. But I must say I was lucky. I never even attempted before I got my first.

I disagree with what you said about not everyone can lucid dream, everybody can as long as they dedicate themselves to it. But I agree with that there could be so much more too lucid dreaming.

People seem be interested in the whole "knowing oneself" aspect, but then they get afraid of being subjective, and seeing how they really think in this reality does not always conform to the reality in dreams. So they end up doing nothing, and just stick with trying to have fun, then realize having fun isn't enough because they want to apply what they experienced to waking life.

And the whole process of trying to learn, but not being open-minded and back to being bored repeats again.

Point is, when you go by that logic, you can either set the conviction that dreaming is apophenia or try to make meaning of the apophenia, but still feel like it's just randomly generated.

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maybe just using it for sex and whatnot is abusing it

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I don't think that's abusing it, it depends on the person. If lucid dreaming is something not many people can do at will, and you have those you can have them often, they're just enjoying something that occurs when they sleep. As long as they're happy with doing it constantly (if they can go all the way), then I don't think it's abusing.

Because if you think that's abuse, if you try to go to deeper aspects, like Akashic Records for instance, wouldn't having "constant access" to an element of precognitive dreams be an example of "cheating" in how you control you life? :P

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i'm not just talking about using it for solely self improvement or things having to do with the subconscious.

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If you want to see things beyond practical assumptions of lucid dreaming, it really involves understanding yourself before you step into the lines of the potential. Because if you can't understand the mental filters and how your mind works from personal development, you won't have a decent basis to work around with to be really creative.

And most things, especially in the Beyond Dreaming section, are usually criticized by those who are earnest with having evidence to back up the anecdotes. Lucid Dreaming can have a deeper purpose if you align yourself to the mentality that anything is possible in lucid dreaming, and can eradicate the majority of doubt that comes with that sense of confidence.

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It doesn't seem like it's utilized at its full potential, because again, the potential is dependent on the dreamer willing to experiment, forget their current convictions temporarily, and go on a constant scavenger hunt for more information, and have a burning desire to "evolve" mentally.

Not many people are willing to go that far, and still have stable control of a main perception in this reality and in dreaming, because most would be too afraid in the first place.

Ninjaa's right, everybody can lucid dream if they take the time to practice. It's not something that only certain people can do, some people just have it easier than others or come across the skill naturally, and on the other hand some people just aren't interested enough to succeed.

These topics you mention are actually widely discussed on many forums, including this one. Lots of people use dreams to explore, learn about themselves, heal, or try to reach states such as communicating with the collective unconscious that you mention. Personally, I feel that my lucid time is far better spent having fun. There are many ways to have profound and insightful mental and spiritual experiences and leave your body and whatever else you may think comes with that and lucid dreaming is not the most powerful of them, but it is the most controllable so I like to use that to just let loose as much possible while saving the spiritual exploration for other things. It's all down to personal choice though... I don't think you can really define what "abuse" is for lucid dreaming, aside from just wanting to escape reality with it. What works for some may not for others, and vice-versa.

They are what you make of them. Other people will do different things, and have different ideas. If you are saying that something a person chooses to dream is abuse, what are you really saying? That thinking what they want to think is abusing their mind? That they are using their imagination incorrectly? As for your other points, genetic and collective conscious are unsupported by science as far as I know, especially since dreaming in general is a weak point in our scientific knowledge, so you will have to judge whether you believe in those things based on the personal experience of others and yourself. Finally lucid dreaming is more of a skill than a gift, and almost anyone can learn it.

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Originally Posted by Ninjaa

I disagree with what you said about not everyone can lucid dream, everybody can as long as they dedicate themselves to it.

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I think that's what he/she meant, like not everyone can play hockey, but with enough practice anyone could (unless they don't have legs or have some kind of health reason they can't). Not everyone can lucid dream, but if they practice anyone can.

Like life, lucid dreaming can be anything you want it to be. It can be fun, or it can be transformative. Or both, or anything else.

yea about people not being able to lucid dream, there are just some people that can't dream at all and tbh i hadn't considered improving recall for people who just don't remember their dreams.

as for abusing it, i guess this is subjective and may just be self suggestion but it seems like post lucid sex or if i like kill a dc (did this the other day dk what came over me haha, felt kinda bad) i wake up. could also just be increased heart rate/adrenaline or whatever...

i can't remember exactly what made me think about this but last night i was watching a documentary about egypt and i was thinking about the possibility of tapping into something while lucid dreaming and learning about the ancients haha. this is the kind of stuff that i mean when i mention the untapped potential of lucid dreaming

another thing about the abusing it is like if stuff in the last paragraph is possible, maybe sex and fun is really there as a test/distraction from what it's really meant for. i mean lucid dreaming is a pretty amazing thing if you think about it. most people don't even know what it is and we're doing crazy shit in our heads while we sleep

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Originally Posted by siuol

As for your other points, genetic and collective conscious are unsupported by science as far as I know, especially since dreaming in general is a weak point in our scientific knowledge, so you will have to judge whether you believe in those things based on the personal experience of others and yourself.

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well there have been tests implying the existence of the collective conscious like that random number generator thing haha. it spikes when there are significant world events... as far as genetic memory i'm pretty sure that's supported also, and even if it's not empirically proven it's easily observable for example monarch butterflies flying to the same spot every year or few years or whatever it is even when none of them were born there...

Yes, dreaming has the deeper purpose you assign to it. Much like life.

Humans have pattern and purpose-oriented thinking, creating links and innovating across the board. Problems arise when people like something so much that they want it to mean something so they start bending data to suit their hypothesis.

While lucid dreaming can be used for a variety of things ranging from fun to fun and useful, trying to give it deep meaning seems to me like trying to give deeper meaning to legs because you were born with them and they take you places you have and haven't seen before.

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Originally Posted by slyman

there are just some people that can't dream at all and tbh i hadn't considered improving recall for people who just don't remember their dreams.

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Everybody has dreams. If someone was to not have any dreams that would mean they do not have a subconcious.

The reason they don't remember their dreams could be for many reasons. Smoking/drugs/lack of sleep/lack of vitamins/bad diet and tons more things could be the reason for having no dream recall.

so i've been watching this show Magical Egypt on youtube and the last episode i watched talks about how the egyptians might have used lucid dreaming to practice for the afterlife. i had thought about this before watching the show but the earlier episodes were why i made this thread. just thought it was crazy how the stuff i was thinking about was talked about in a later episode. was going to post a thread about it but then i searched and found this thread about it from a couple years ago too http://www.dreamviews.com/f36/magica...terlife-32512/ i thought about bumping it but i figured i'd just post here. pretty interesting show btw

http://youtu.be/TDyob7cjqkk

I agree that lucid dreaming can have a "deeper" purpose. Some of mine feel rather important on a spiritual and psychological level. However, I see no problem with having fun and enjoying yourself in them.
I feel that viewing sex in lucid dreams as a waste is to overlook a potentially powerful aid.

*edited for better wording*

Dreams is making you process information and what makes you remember your life. :dreaming:

Lucid dreaming is expanding and exploring the consciousness which makes you learn and understand your life. :meditate:

I like to think of LD as our own personal realm. Unlike the real world, we can create,destroy, change and experience anything that we desire in a LD. Therefore, my answer is simple: it can be anything you want it to be. It can be deep spiritual stuff, it can be plain realistic fun, and it can be anything in between (and anything that is not in between).

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Originally Posted by Ninjaa

Everybody has dreams. If someone was to not have any dreams that would mean they do not have a subconcious.

The reason they don't remember their dreams could be for many reasons. Smoking/drugs/lack of sleep/lack of vitamins/bad diet and tons more things could be the reason for having no dream recall.

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Actually some people literally don't have dreams. There are documented cases of stroke patients with area-specific brain trauma (don't remember what part of the brain) losing the ability to dream entirely. Of course they're extreme cases though XD

I think we should be careful when talking about something like a collective unconscious...I suppose it depends on what you mean by it, but if you mean something like a reservoir when all unconscious thoughts coexist on some other plane...it clearly probably isn't that. However, because of the fact that any human's thoughts and emotions are irretrievably connected with the thoughts and emotions of those they are brought up amongst, tapping into your deepest wells should tell you a lot about other people as well.

"Meaning" in that supernatural grandiose sense is almost completely meaningLESS in that it's completely arbitrary, but personal meaning, things like basic drives and emotions and perspectives about the world, I mean, they must "mean" something within the subjective reality that is human culture and the human condition, really. All your feelings and perceptions are just the result of what millions of years of evolution have allowed you to feel and perceive, and your attempt to understand anything around you is hopelessly skewed in those directions. To understand yourself is to understand your innate biases as they relate to your strategies with interacting with the environment--and perhaps, if you're ambitious enough, understand how they fit into the larger scheme of things.

Otherwise just have a blast. I guess I'm of the opinion that if you have the ability and the motivation to learn to do something such as lucid dreaming at will, it's yours to do with what you will.

so i bumped this thread with this post and everyone disregards it and reads the stuff earlier in the thread lol

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Originally Posted by slyman

so i've been watching this show Magical Egypt on youtube and the last episode i watched talks about how the egyptians might have used lucid dreaming to practice for the afterlife. i had thought about this before watching the show but the earlier episodes were why i made this thread. just thought it was crazy how the stuff i was thinking about was talked about in a later episode. was going to post a thread about it but then i searched and found this thread about it from a couple years ago too http://www.dreamviews.com/f36/magica...terlife-32512/ i thought about bumping it but i figured i'd just post here. pretty interesting show btw

Magical Egypt - Navigating the Afterlife Part 5 of 8 - YouTube

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I think it is the same as life. I like to always be working towards goals. This doesn't mean I can't have some fun along the way.

A dream is whatever you want it to be. A dream has no laws, no physics, no moral standards, no limitations whatsoever. The only thing that shapes the dreams we have is our own personal prefernces, both subconciously, and, in the case of lucid dreaming, conciously.
In effect, what I'm trying to say is that a dream is your own creation, and that certain people will utilise their dreams for alternate purposes. :)

slyman, I am halfway through the first episode of Magical Egypt. Good information, I'm probably going to stay up all night watching the rest :D thanks for the post

Lucid Dreaming is what you make it. It has many possibilities and uses not just one we should use.