False Lucid Dream: What is this?

Hi Folks, I'm pretty new to all this and I had an odd experience last night that left me curious as to whether it was common or not.

Last night I woke in the middle of the night, spent some time awake and then returned to sleep/dream after some mantra time etc. Seemed to work in that in my dream I realised I was dreaming (looking out of a train window at a caveman).

So far so good: I had that odd feeling of energy and pleasure at becoming lucid (felt quite pleased with myself). But then, as I recalled after waking, that sense of control dissapated and I just went along with the dream without exerting any control or really any awareness (as per a normal dream) - though at the time I thought I was being lucid. It was only after waking that I realised that I hadn't been lucid, only dreamed that I was (does that make sense?). Not only that, but the quality/vividness of the dream was mundane, not at all like the hyper-realism I'd come to associate with LDs (I've only had a few).

Trying to recall back through the dream (actually more diccifult than usual this time) I got the impression that this was also a dream within a dream: that I had achieved a sort-of fake lucidity within a dream within a dream; and I wondered if this was part of the problem.

So: have other people had these sort of fake lucid dreams? And what can de done to prevent them, or turn them into a real lucid dream? And would the dream-within-a-dream element have led to an increased liklihood of 'losing' dream lucidity (even while thinking you had retained it)?

I don't understand the part of a dream within a dream, but I have had 2-3 of those fake lucids, I realize that I'm dreaming, but it doesn't get to me and I continue the dream normally. It's very frustrating xD

I've had fake lucids before.

The most humorous of them was when I downloaded a lucid dreaming application off the Internet (that gives you a LD when opened, of course). I used it. I didn't become lucid at all (but I behaved like I was).

From how you described it, it sounds like you did have a real lucid dream but you eventually lost your lucidty without relizing you did. So while you "character" believed he was in a dream, you didn't actually realize that you were.
Fake lucid dreams are very common, especially among those who are striving to acheive lucidity in dreams.

Did you know that you were in the dream at the time you realized that? If yes then it counts as actual lucid dream even if you knew about it for a very short period of time. Though it does sounds like you have actually gained lucidity and then lost it shortly afterwards. Losing lucidity happens from time to time to pretty much about everyone. There's way to decrease chance of losing lucidity though, and it's called dream stabilization, here's tutorial: Dream Stabilization and Clarity Tutorial - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views :)
I personally prefer the 'engaging senses' method and rubbing hands method. :zzz:

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Originally Posted by pog

And would the dream-within-a-dream element have led to an increased liklihood of 'losing' dream lucidity (even while thinking you had retained it)?

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Not really, might be even opposite! I once done WILD while already being in dream and got lucid as result, the resulting lucid dream is my best lucid dreaming experience up to date. :P

Thanks for the comments folks. From what you're all saying, it seems like that I might have gained lucidity for a brief moment and then been unable to stabilise, resulting in me losing lucidity pretty quickly. And it also seems that this is pretty common and nothing to worry about. I think I'll boost my LD count by one, even if this one did only last seconds :)

Thanks for the links Checker666, I hadn't heard about stabilisation before, so I'll check it out. Interesting that you can induce lucidity in dreams-within-a-dream: that could get quite interesting!

There is no such thing as a false lucid. You either know you were dreaming or you didn't. There many levels of lucidity and you can lose lucidity just as quickly as you get it.

http://www.dreamviews.com/introducti...cid-dream.html

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Originally Posted by Xanous

There is no such thing as a false lucid. You either know you were dreaming or you didn't. There many levels of lucidity and you can lose lucidity just as quickly as you get it.

http://www.dreamviews.com/introducti...cid-dream.html

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False lucid, though a somewhat deceptive term, is just a way of describing a dream in which you dremt your character was lucid dreaming, but you were not actually consciously lucid. For many lucid dreaming beginners it can be hard to tell the difference between a dream in which they dreamt their character was lucid dreaming, and actually lucid dreaming, thus the term "false lucid" was born.

How? If one dreamt they were lucid, they still would be. They know that they are dreaming. To "dream that you were in a lucid dream" implies that you can have a "layered dream." This is not Inception. If one dreams of dreaming, the dreamscape will simply change; the brain doesn't retain and superimpose the previous dreamscape. If he dreamt that he knew he was dreaming, wouldn't he still know of his false reality? I don't understand this. You either know or you don't. There is no difference between a "false lucid dream" as it is called and simply an unstable lucid dream.

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Originally Posted by Jabre

How? If one dreamt they were lucid, they still would be. They know that they are dreaming. To "dream that you were in a lucid dream" implies that you can have a "layered dream." This is not Inception. If one dreams of dreaming, the dreamscape will simply change; the brain doesn't retain and superimpose the previous dreamscape. If he dreamt that he knew he was dreaming, wouldn't he still know of his false reality? I don't understand this. You either know or you don't. There is no difference between a "false lucid dream" as it is called and simply an unstable lucid dream.

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I think you missed a key point: They were dreaming that their dream character deduced that he was in a lucid dream. They were to busy paying attention to the actions of the dream character. It's very similar to a dream in which you are spectating a dream character fly, in this case you would never say that "you" as the dreamer were flying in the dream, even if the entire dream revolved around that character flying.
In my case, I've had dreams in which I was spectating a dream character that was supposed to represent me, realize he was in a dream. But I was only spectating, his actions were all controled by my subconscious mind, not my conscious mind.

When you get into all this it sounds really complex, but it's not. In more simple words, a "false lucid" is a dream in which your dream avatar "deduces" he is in a lucid dream, but your conscious mind doesn't realize that you are actually dreaming.

Hmmm... I'm inclined to think there maybe a little of both in there somewhere.

On recall, it seemed clear to me that the 'I' in the dream (my avatar-self) thought he was lucid and accepted that he was dreaming, but did not in any way act upon that knowledge nor exerted any conscious control over actions nor had any emotional response to that awareness. It's almost as if 'he'/'I' mouthed the words "I'm dreaming" without attaching any meaning to them. This seems to match TranquilityTrip's definition of, 'a dream in which your dream avatar "deduces" he is in a lucid dream, but your conscious mind doesn't realize that you are actually dreaming.'

However, when the thought "I am dreaming" first came to 'me'/ my 'dream-avatar' I had the famailar rush of positive energy and power. Although it lasted only a second, and although the dreamscape didn't change and didn't become hyper-realistic, this seems to agree with Jabre's ideas on it being an 'unstable lucid dream'.

Might it be that I experienced a very brief, unstable moment of lucidity that instantly dissipated into a false lucid where my avatar still believed that he was lucid but really wasn't?

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Originally Posted by TranquilityTrip

False lucid, though a somewhat deceptive term, is just a way of describing a dream in which you dremt your character was lucid dreaming, but you were not actually consciously lucid. For many lucid dreaming beginners it can be hard to tell the difference between a dream in which they dreamt their character was lucid dreaming, and actually lucid dreaming, thus the term "false lucid" was born.

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That would be called NON LUCID. We don't need to continue inventing terms. It becomes even more confusing to those who are just learning about lucid dreaming. You either knew you were in a dream or you didn't. That is all.

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Originally Posted by Xanous

That would be called NON LUCID. We don't need to continue inventing terms. It becomes even more confusing to those who are just learning about lucid dreaming. You either knew you were in a dream or you didn't. That is all.

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That's exactly why I use the term, because there are a quite few people who come on forums, just like this one, and ask what it was they just experienced. It's a way of clarifying to them that what they dreamed of was not a lucid dream, it was a FALSE lucid. A dream in which it may have seemed like they became lucid, but didn't. Why does this need to be clarified? Because some people don't know what a REAL lucid feels like, so to them any dream associated with lucid dreaming may be incorrectly identified as a lucid dream.
But I understand where you're coming from, I myself have very rarely used the term "false lucid" and "dreaming of lucid dreaming" but I see where the confusion can arise. Perhaps it is better to just leave it simple.

Yep - it's simply a regular dream about being lucid. Nothing fancy there. There's also no such thing as a "dream within a dream" - that's just a fake idea from a science fiction movie. Just as you can dream about being lucid, you can also dream about having a dream.