Thread: Is it possible to become a natural lucid dreamer?

Natural is something you are born with. So if you are not born with it, you can't accrue it later on.

But you can get really good at it. And maybe you won't need to practice as much as you do at the beginning. And maybe the practice you are doing now will become second nature to you, so you will not view it as something bothersome.

Originally Posted by gab

But you can get really good at it. And maybe you won't need to practice as much as you do at the beginning. And maybe the practice you are doing now will become second nature to you, so you will not view it as something bothersome.

I think it's what some people call Natural Lucid Dreamers, and they don't mean if you are born with the ability but you learned to naturally do it.

That confuses me a little, because of I think that an accurate definition for natural is what you said about something that you are born with and you do without effort, practicing or whatever.

Originally Posted by Box77

I think it's what some people call Natural Lucid Dreamers, and they don't mean if you are born with the ability but you learned to naturally do it.

That confuses me a little, because of I think that an accurate definition for natural is what you said about something that you are born with and you do without effort, practicing or whatever.

I call natural lucid dreamer a person, who comes here on DV and says, that he had these types of dreams all his life, never knew the name of it, obviously never practiced, and was surprised do hear, that not everybody dreams the same way.

But yes, natural could mean something else too. Like when somone is shown how to shoot with bow and arrow and he picks it up so quickly and without much training at all.

But I would say, natural dreamer always had this ability and will have lucid dreams without practicing. But if someone starts to practice LDing and he is very good at, it comes easy to him, and has tons of LDs, but if he stops practicing, he may stop having lucid dreams.

No

Every man and woman is a natural dreamer

The question is whether they are awake or not

Originally Posted by Blackfox

No
Every man and woman is a natural dreamer
The question is whether they are awake or not

Everybody has the ability, but that doesn't mean everybody is a natural, or everybody can do it same way as the other. To some, it comes easier, and to some, harder. He asked about lucid dreaming, btw.

And I think you meant "aware", not awake.

So, the definition for natural lucid dreamers has nothing to do with the frequency of lucid dreams they have but the way they've learned to do it. The frequency comes form the practice, the more you exercise the skill, the better you are on it, whatever the way you learned to do it.

You like misinterpreting me gab

Originally Posted by Blackfox

No

Every man and woman is a natural dreamer

The question is whether they are awake or not

Are you talking about whether they are awake and daydreaming? Or are you talking about whether or not they are awake in the dream?

Because the term of waking up in a dream sounds more like a false awakening or a dream that you wake yourself up. Lucid dreaming isn't becoming awake in a dream, it is being aware in your dream of the fact you are dreaming. I am sometimes closer to my awake state of mind with full control of my faculties and perfect thought process in non lucid dreams.

And I agree with what those have said before me. Being a natural is learning it without help, or just always being lucid without ever trying. I had 10 before knowing what it was, but for 20 years that doesn't make me a natural. all the ones I get are from a mixture of techniques after finding what works from each tech for me.

Im just going to stick with the actual thread question-

If by natural lucid dreamer, I'm assuming you mean achieve lucid dreams, without trying, or just everynight/everytime you dream, correct?

I believe that with enough practice and determination, that it is definitely possible, I cant back this up with evidence, but i believe it can be done.

I have heard that for some people all it takes is finding out that lucid dreaming is possible, and so then they just do it. Would that be "become a natural lucid dreamer"?

Also if your question is whether a person can just spontaneously start lucid dreaming on their own in middle age for example despite not having done it in their youth, I think that is possible as well.

I'll be using this definition for the sake of my topic:

Natural is something you are born with. By Gab.

Now, do we even have testimonials of people that spontaneously started lucid dreaming at some point in their lives without effort?

For me, a "natural" lucid dreamer is nothing more than someone that developed extensive lucid dream skills through a practice that developed along many years of childhood. For example those children with nightmares that discovered that they could wake themselves up or control the dream. Now, this would totally justify why so many self-called naturals would say that they have lucid dreams since ever: due their large amount of REM sleep during childhood, they had many opportunities to develop it. At some point it becomes so "natural" that you don't even recall a time where you didn't lucid dream. Especially after years in which you can't even remember properly your first lucid dream experiences.

In any case, I don't believe people can become natural at any point in life. It takes time for the brain to "rewire", because we weren't made for lucidity: there's specific interventions that happen at a neuronal level that prevent you from turning lucid. Now, sure there might be exceptions, but I'd say that those so called exceptions are just people that lucid dream since child, and actually developed the skill gradually. It's much more plausible imo.

TDLR: there are no natural lucid dreamers, all we have is people that had a couple of lucid dreams since a very young age, developed the skill gradually, and after so many time doing it, forgot that they didn't always do it.

You may be right or you may be wrong. I do not know.

I do think however that the blocks that prevent most of us from lucid dreaming may not be as strong in some people than others. However, if that is the case than those people would also be much more likely to start during childhood.

However, I have heard or rather read of testimonials of those lucky bastards who become lucid right after they hear that it is possible.

^^ I think Zoth is completely correct.

Why? Because lucid dreaming, being awake while you're also asleep, is about as unnatural a thing a person can do with his mind.

That said, I do think that one side-effect of sentience (also likely a very unnatural accident of evolution) is that everyone probably has a lucid dream accidentally, or naturally, at least once in our lives. So maybe there are people who have that every night, and maintain self-awareness and memory in all dreams whether they want to or not. I've never met one personally, though I too have heard lots of claims to it.

And, also to Zoth and Gab's points, you can't become natural at something. You can become a master of it, to where it becomes "second nature" to you, but if you weren't born with this natural talent, you'll never be a natural.

Is a natural lucid dreamer not just someone who occasionally got lucid while still a child, regardless of before or after knowing what it was and became good at it?

Originally Posted by BrandonBoss

Are you talking about whether they are awake and daydreaming? Or are you talking about whether or not they are awake in the dream?

Because the term of waking up in a dream sounds more like a false awakening or a dream that you wake yourself up. Lucid dreaming isn't becoming awake in a dream, it is being aware in your dream of the fact you are dreaming. I am sometimes closer to my awake state of mind with full control of my faculties and perfect thought process in non lucid dreams.

And I agree with what those have said before me. Being a natural is learning it without help, or just always being lucid without ever trying. I had 10 before knowing what it was, but for 20 years that doesn't make me a natural. all the ones I get are from a mixture of techniques after finding what works from each tech for me.

No I think Blackfox meant to say that. I took that to mean that we're actually becoming awake to our essential reality, or closer to it at least. I don't know what you guys believe about the afterlife, but I believe it will be similar in nature to lucid dreaming, in that it involves exploring the visionary worlds. That, in turn, would be our true essence, or reality. So with that in mind, when we are lucid dreaming, we are finally becoming awake to our true forms. Well, at least it's closer than this world of illusion we find ourselves in now!

And while most brains aren't hardwired to become lucid, maybe it was not always like this? Maybe through all the conditioning and social/political corruption we have, over time, made us forget what's really important and sentience has just fallen by the wayside? All those tribes from back in the day used to be really involved with lucid dreaming and exploring the spiritual realms, even more so than our society today! But then we also find a giant gap in between generations where dreaming became less and less important. Who knows what actually happened. But it seems as if we are just getting back into this, remembering some long lost "truths" from long ago. Does this mean that lucid dreaming IS actually hardwired somewhere in our brains and we're meant to do it? Who knows, I'm only speculating. But hey it is pretty cool to consider, no?

What do we mean by 'natural' here? Do these people who have always had lucid dreams, not sought them, are surprised to find their ability is a rare thing, have some kind of genetic predisposition, is it advantageous to lucid dream for natural selection?

No. Every 'natural' learned, whether as a nightmare coping mechanism, or through sheer serendipitous experimentation, lucidity is something you learn.

Nature and nurture is just a binary reduction, there is nothing that can be reduced to one centre of biology or environment, everything is an interaction of both.

So yes, I'd say that it is definitely possible to become a natural. Some members of this forum lucid dream nightly. And also, the idea that naturals LD nightly simply isn't true, my mum and a friend of mine are both naturals but do not lucid dream on a nightly basis (and at low levels of reasoning that could be more accurately called semi-lucid I might add).

Originally Posted by Caboose128

And while most brains aren't hardwired to become lucid, maybe it was not always like this? Maybe through all the conditioning and social/political corruption we have, over time, made us forget what's really important and sentience has just fallen by the wayside? All those tribes from back in the day used to be really involved with lucid dreaming and exploring the spiritual realms, even more so than our society today! But then we also find a giant gap in between generations where dreaming became less and less important. Who knows what actually happened. But it seems as if we are just getting back into this, remembering some long lost "truths" from long ago. Does this mean that lucid dreaming IS actually hardwired somewhere in our brains and we're meant to do it? Who knows, I'm only speculating. But hey it is pretty cool to consider, no?

Pretty cool indeed! I really like this bit, Caboose, and would be extremely delighted should we find out one day that it is true...

"can you become a natural lucid dreamer"....

You Should learn what natural means

Originally Posted by Lucidit

"can you become a natural lucid dreamer"....

You Should learn what natural means

what is natural?

Originally Posted by Lucidit

"can you become a natural lucid dreamer"....

You Should learn what natural means

I think it's meaningless in the context of lucid dreaming.

Originally Posted by BrandonBoss

what is natural?

You beat me to the punch

Originally Posted by BrandonBoss

what is natural?

you probably know what natural is so there's no point to explain it to you

I just posted this on another thread but it seems relevant here also.

Firstly before you get anywhere I think it needs to be defined what exactly a Natural LDer is? As one Mans/Woman's interpretation seems to be different from another's.

If we look at other Skills in which the term Natural is used we get an idea.
If someone says "they're a Natural Guitar Player", referring to Hendrix or Clapton say, then it doesn't mean that either of them could play the Guitar before any of them picked one up!

Again if one says "they were a Natural Wordsmith or Poet" referring to Shakespeare or Kipling, again it wouldn't mean that they could Write the way they could without any Learning!
Had they lead different lives they may have never written a Play or Poem in there entire life.

What it means is that they picked it up quickly and became Masters of it once they applied there self to the Skill!

From that my Definition of a Natural Lucid Dreamer is somebody who after finding out what Lucid Dreaming is and applies themselves to it, has many Regular Lucid Dreams from that point on with relative ease.

Obviously if someone has many Lucid Dreams without even knowing what a LD is, then they would also be considered a Natural LDer.

@Lucidit; the point is to question natural as a concept. We all know what it means, but how does that definition actually stand up? You should ask yourself what it means.

@MrBlonde; talent is just flawed as the idea of being natural at anything. Clapton and Hendrix are/was amazing guitar players because they played every waking moment guitar until they were amazing guitar players.