Thread: Extreme Paradox with Recent LDs -- Dream Characters are Lucid! Has anyone else experienced this?

Years ago when I was lucid dreaming regularly, I had one dream in which a dream character tried to unsuccessfully convince me that this was a dream, or rather he was saying that he knew he was dreaming, and ironically I started then to lecture him on lucid dreaming while I remained non-lucid. I had another dream lucid this time, meaning i knew it was a dream, in which me and one of my dream characters had a philosophical discussion on who was the dreamer and who the figment of imagination.

I find it interesting that people have such weird generalized misconceptions such as that dream characters in lucid dreams will and must deny that it is a dream, or that lucid dream characters are boring and mindless. Our non-lucid dreams are not filled with boring mindless dream characters (at least mine are not), why should dream characters become boring once you become lucid? That makes no sense to me and was not my experience when I was a lucid dreamer. It's not like you being conscious in a dream sucks out the fun out of DCs. Also your mind is perfectly capable of developing interesting characters with complex personalities, and why would you when lucid choose to surround yourself with boring puppets? And yet so many people describe their DCs as mindless, that I am beginning to wonder what caused it: is it expectations driven, do people read about mindless DCs and expect them to be mindless in own dreams as a result? Is it a lack of security and confidence in themselves that causes people to create dumb DCs so they do not have perceived competition in dreams? Are you in so much desire to have full control that you usually perceive a dream character who is interesting as a threat to your control? There is no rule that DCs need to be boring. There is no rule that DCs cannot acknowledge that it is a dream. The DCs are a part of your mind as much as your conscious self, but they are more creations of your subconscious mind. However, our subconscious mind is capable of great creativity as evidenced by vivid non-lucid dreams and parts of lucid dreams which we did not consciously create but just experience as already part of the dreamscape. you are now less in control of your lucid dreams than you have been in the past, but maybe that is a good thing because now your subconscious is showing you flaws with your prior lucid dreams, the greatest of which is preconceived notions such as DCs must be boring and must talk and act in predictable way. Your dreams can be so much more interesting if you let dream characters be interesting. If you lived your waking life in a world where you were e only smart person and everybody else was incapable of saying anything smart, over time I bet that would make you dumber and depressed. Why would you want your dreams to be like that then? We are naturally social creatures, and spending our dream lives in a world populated by dumb puppets is no way to live - remember your dreams are also an essential part of your life, and need to be fulfilling.

Edit: Another thing, you say the DC "deceived" you. The only way that would be possible would be if you believe the DC to be a separate entity somehow capable of deception. On the one hand you had given your DCs too little credit by claiming that they cannot be interesting and have to follow a formula such as deny that it is a dream, on the other hand you are giving your DCs too much credit by claiming they can deceive you. Among the possible beliefs that lucid dreamers can hold: (1) some people believe in shared dreaming, and believe that dream characters are entities separate from themselves - you profess to not believe that is possible; (2) some people believe that they are capable of creating tulpas, entities which are creations of their own mind but are entities of their own with own thought processes that are separate from the dreamer - if you believe that dream characters can deceive you, do you believe in tulpas then? (3) the more scientific lucid dreamers believe that everything and everyone you encounter in a dream whether lucid or non-lucid is a creation of the dreamer's own mind. Thus dream characters are your creation, and they are part of you, a part of you that is not consciously controlled by the part of your mind that you choose to consciously identify with. If this is your belief, then DCs cannot deceive you. They say what some part of you is thinking. It could be that a part of you that you are not willing to consciously acknowledge is wondering whether shared dreaming is possible after all. Of course, if it is possible if you are wrong in your belief that it is impossible, and if you have a rational scientific mind, you should be considering the possibility that your beliefs can be wrong, then these DCs could be external entities that are sharing a dream with you trying to convince you that they are real. The paradox is that science has no way to differentiate between unknown shared dream external entities and subconscious irrational creations of your own design. The distinction is based largely on your belief / your faith in what is going on here. There is no objective evidence to support one claim over the other. But if you are more comfortable thinking that shared dreaming is completely impossible, then you should not claim your DCs are deceiving you. If you do not believe they can be external entities with own minds, then you need to be willing to accept them as your own creations and not assign them motives external to you.

Originally Posted by gab

Linking to other lucid dreaming forums is not allowed. But we have our own http://www.dreamviews.com/general-lu...cid-dream.html Check it out.

Originally Posted by Woodstock

I don't want to argue with a moderator, but why can't we post links to other lucid dreaming forums? If I find something interesting on ld4all and wanted to talk about it here, who would that hurt?

Originally Posted by RavenOfShadow

Not allowed to link to other Lucid dreaming forums o.o? Is this North Korea? Haha. Alright I won't in the future, wasn't aware of that! I thought we were supposed to help each other lucid dream by sharing our experience and resources. Ah well. Either way, lets see some more insightful comments on the original post, thats why we're here!

Yes, it is true that linking to other lucid dreaming forums goes against posting rules because it draws visitors away from DreamViews.

It's not that we dislike the other forums, and mentioning them won't get you sent to the gulag.

We really want forum members to stay here, on this site, and we believe you'll find a better overall lucid dreaming experience here than anywhere else on the internet. The off-topic here is also pretty cool.

No, we're not North Korea, and I think you will find staff here to be courteous. Unlike Korea, we have no medium-range ballistic missiles. What we do have is staff who care and members that are worth knowing, and the latter we have in abundance.

You can post links to reference-dreaming sites and blogs as long as nothing is being sold on those sites. We respect our member's privacy and don't want anyone steering them into for-profit sites that could take advantage of them.

Check out that thread gab linked. It's filled with great ideas. You can also find the Task-of-The-Month linked in my signature, both good reasons to stick around DreamViews.


**Sorry to hijack your thread, MatthewMoisen. Your lucid dreaming experiences sound interesting. I hope you decide to start a Dream Journal here.

Originally Posted by melanieb

Yes, it is true that linking to other lucid dreaming forums goes against posting rules because it draws visitors away from DreamViews.

It's not that we dislike the other forums, and mentioning them won't get you sent to the gulag.

We really want forum members to stay here, on this site, and we believe you'll find a better overall lucid dreaming experience here than anywhere else on the internet. The off-topic here is also pretty cool.

No, we're not North Korea, and I think you will find staff here to be courteous. Unlike Korea, we have no medium-range ballistic missiles. What we do have is staff who care and members that are worth knowing, and the latter we have in abundance.

You can post links to reference-dreaming sites and blogs as long as nothing is being sold on those sites. We respect our member's privacy and don't want anyone steering them into for-profit sites that could take advantage of them.

Check out that thread gab linked. It's filled with great ideas. You can also find the Task-of-The-Month linked in my signature, both good reasons to stick around DreamViews.


**Sorry to hijack your thread, MatthewMoisen. Your lucid dreaming experiences sound interesting. I hope you decide to start a Dream Journal here.

I'm just giving you a hard time, I understand completely! I really do love it here. A very mature and helpful community in the week i've been here!