RCs CAN make you lucid

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06-12-2013, 04:18 PM
Rothgar

RCs CAN make you lucid

I frequently hear people say RCs in dreams dont make you lucid, but just confirms it. But I must disagree with that. I am on vacation and walked into a new bathroom, and did an RC, since unusual bathroom situations are a dream sign for me. I discovered of course I was indeed awake. Last night I dreamed I "had an accident" and had to clean up in the toilet. Just like in real life I did an RC and as I did in RL a few days earlier. I honestly thought I was awake, although considered the possibility of being in a dream in both situations. I was quite surprised the RC failed and was going to keep checking when I vaguely recalled I had been sleeping recently, so then knew yes I was dreaming. Both situations the RCs were the same and expectations were the same. I did not have a prior suspicion I was dreaming.
06-12-2013, 04:34 PM
006

Just because an RC fails, it doesn't means it can't make you lucid. In my opinion more should do as yes, some can fail, but soon anyway you will be able to tell whether you are in a dream or not without RCs.
06-12-2013, 04:39 PM
Flycat

This post is completely true. My first 2 LDs were because of RCs.
06-12-2013, 04:48 PM
JoannaB

Sure, I also once had an experience where I was convinced I was awake, did an RC anyway, and was shocked to find out I was dreaming. On the other hand in my later LD, I did an RC but it failed to confirm that I was dreaming, but I though "skrew that! I know I am dreaming." So basically I knew, and it did not matter that the RC failed. I think what people mean when they say that RCs do not make you lucid is that while RCs are a useful tool, but most people get lucid not because of the results of an RC. And also if you lack the necessary awareness, you could do an RC in a dream and fail to become lucid. So it is like a good pen does not make you a good writer, and you can be a good writer even if you do not own a good pen, but a good pen can be a useful tool and it could certainly be instrumental in writing something good.
06-12-2013, 04:54 PM
Bobblehat

Yes, I've done RCs in dreams because I was in situations "that you are supposed to do a reality check in" and did one and was absolutely flabbergasted to find out I was dreaming.
06-12-2013, 05:43 PM
Rothgar

Just to clarify, if an RC fails, I mean checking for reality fails...ie you confirm the dream state. The check itself worked perfectly as it should.
06-12-2013, 06:06 PM
Bobblehat

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rothgar

Just to clarify, if an RC fails, I mean checking for reality fails...ie you confirm the dream state. The check itself worked perfectly as it should.

I've seen that cause so much confusion through the years!
06-12-2013, 07:11 PM
JoannaB

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rothgar

Just to clarify, if an RC fails, I mean checking for reality fails...ie you confirm the dream state. The check itself worked perfectly as it should.

Ah! See, I would be reluctant to call that "RC failed" because failure has a negative connotation, and nothing negative happened here - in fact something very desirable happened.
06-12-2013, 07:23 PM
gab

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rothgar

I frequently hear people say RCs in dreams dont make you lucid, but just confirms it. But I must disagree with that. I am on vacation and walked into a new bathroom, and did an RC, since unusual bathroom situations are a dream sign for me. I discovered of course I was indeed awake.... I did not have a prior suspicion I was dreaming.

This is how I see it.

Many times it certainly may look, that RCs get you lucid. Especially, when the sequence of getting awareness that prompts your RC is so fast, you may think RC got you lucid, and then you gained awareness.

But, let me ask you, what is the difference between someone getting/not getting lucid when seeing his dream sign? The only difference is if he has/doesn't have awareness at that moment.

Sometimes, I have a discussion with myself. Something like this: Hrm, could be a dream. I could count my fingers, but it's no good, because I'm sure I'm asleep. Ok, I'll count. Holy smokes, I AM dreaming." In case like this, it's clear that awareness came first, that helped me recall a memory from waking life about RCs and allowed me to question my state.

But sometimes, RC follows awareness so fast, that it feels like RC came first, then awareness.

So even if someone thinks he did RC just out of the blue, that's not entirely so. In case of dream signs, I'm sure a person RCs for that in waking life and thinks about how he will RC in a dream - that's form of awareness training. Then you get a tiny amount of awareness that urges you to do RC and allowes you to realize what you just did and gets you lucid. Otherwise, a person RCs and that's the end of it.
06-12-2013, 07:47 PM
Rothgar

Enough awareness to do an RC I dont think equates to enough awareness to know you are dreaming without an RC. It may seem like a moot point, but I think some who read forums conclude RCs are not needed...why confirm what you already know? I am pretty emphatic that is not the case. Over time my awareness has become better and I often do spontaneously know I am dreaming....but not always. RCs still are an important part of my set of techniques.
06-12-2013, 08:23 PM
gab

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rothgar

Enough awareness to do an RC I dont think equates to enough awareness to know you are dreaming without an RC. It may seem like a moot point, but I think some who read forums conclude RCs are not needed...why confirm what you already know? I am pretty emphatic that is not the case. Over time my awareness has become better and I often do spontaneously know I am dreaming....but not always. RCs still are an important part of my set of techniques.

I agree. RCs are needed. They are a great tool. Those who think RCs are not needed I think they don't realize, why RCs work. That you put emotions in practicing them. The "wow, am I dreaming?" and then you RC to check in WL. The "I'm dreaming, so I watch my thumb go through my palm now". And that "wow moment" in WL is the awareness that will give us the urge to RC in a dream. Sometimes we know we are dreaming without RC, sometimes we use it to confirm. But the urge to RC, and lucidity "out of the blue" comes from awareness.

My opinion, of course.
06-12-2013, 09:33 PM
Ekyu

I'll probably get a lot of hate for this, but i find that RCs are a little bit "overrated". Don't get me wrong. They are helpfull when you suddenly are in a completely different environment, like when you're on vacation. But i'm personally not a big fan about doing a reality check at "random times". Although, i will admit that RCs seem to work out for some people, but i still think it's a little bit overrated.. *I'm ready for the hate! :putemuppunk:

I find that RCs should be used more often in the lucid dream, because it keeps you're lucid "awareness" high.
06-12-2013, 10:13 PM
Rothgar

Hey Ekyu, there is no single answer when it comes to LDs. What works for one doesnt always work the same for others. No hate mail here!
06-13-2013, 05:50 PM
Goldenspark

Quote:

Originally Posted by gab

So even if someone thinks he did RC just out of the blue, that's not entirely so. In case of dream signs, I'm sure a person RCs for that in waking life and thinks about how he will RC in a dream - that's form of awareness training. Then you get a tiny amount of awareness that urges you to do RC and allowes you to realize what you just did and gets you lucid. Otherwise, a person RCs and that's the end of it.

Hey Gab, I must admit I had become very skeptical about RCs. It seemed like you said; I needed some level of awareness in order to do an RC to confirm I was dreaming, but my first LD following an RC came the night after reading that the nose pinch RC was probably the best one. Up until then I had been practising the finger through the palm one. It felt like the impulse to do the nose pinch was completely spontaneous, and the brief moment of lucidity that followed seemed to be as a result of the RC.
What has annoyed me is that since then it's not happened again!
I practice the nose pinch RC regularly, but it's like my subconscious is refusing to let me in again!

I think you may be right that the awareness needs to come first, which is maybe why I am a bit stuck.
It's now been a year since I started, and just 4 brief LDs to show for it.

Any other ideas?
06-13-2013, 07:49 PM
gab

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goldenspark

... but my first LD following an RC came the night after reading that the nose pinch RC was probably the best one.

I would say, that reading, thinking, talking about lucid dreaming related stuff is part of awareness.

And I did notice with amazement, how things I read during day I remember when the time is right. You may not actively think "oh, this is a great article". But you have certain feeling when reading it and your mind registers it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goldenspark

Up until then I had been practising the finger through the palm one. It felt like the impulse to do the nose pinch was completely spontaneous, and the brief moment of lucidity that followed seemed to be as a result of the RC.

That's how I feel it every time - spontaneous urge to RC or to ask myself if I'm dreaming. But this has to come from somewhere, and I strongly believe it comes from daytime awareness practice of any shape or form.

So you gain awareness, that gives you an urge to RC and allowes you to recognize what you doing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goldenspark

What has annoyed me is that since then it's not happened again!
I practice the nose pinch RC regularly, but it's like my subconscious is refusing to let me in again!

I think you may be right that the awareness needs to come first, which is maybe why I am a bit stuck.
It's now been a year since I started, and just 4 brief LDs to show for it.

I think that's normal. When I started out, I have been doing the looking at hands RC and thumb/palm. But not untill my 3rd LD I did the thumb/palm RC. Then I have been doing the nose pinch pretty intensly, but I still kept doing the hands in dreams. Untill I finaly did the nose pinch. Why it took so long to transfer, and why so inconsistently, I don't know.

So don't think about your subconsious as doing anything against you. It just does what you tell it to do. Think of your sub as your partner.

I recommend sagaouse's self-awareness. http://www.dreamviews.com/wild/13181...prep-part.html
And here is a short awareness question, with looking at hands RC and a mantra, that got me my first 20 or so LDs. http://www.dreamviews.com/dild/13212...ods-dilds.html