Thread: LDing when awake?

The difference is subtle by definition, although in practice they are very different creatures. An LDD has the added bonus of being possible at any point during the day, (day as in Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday ect. Not as in day vs. night). This factor can lead to some interesting interactions with the physical world, for example I often create holographic inserts of thought based things into my life, such as imagining myself doing all sorts of magic normally only open in dreams. Because you are already awake you can use art forms like painting or writing to record these feats real-time, instead of after waking up like with a normal LD. There are some limits starting out, but they are related to the same ones lucid dreaming has, the exception is that starting out it requires a lot of focus to deal with two worlds at once. I’m not sure which one is more fulfilling for me personally, as I use both for certain situations, although I must admit that the LDD has greatly advanced my progress in the arts, sciences, and general fantasizing.

P.S.

I started writing the tutorial last night, no promise on when it will be done, but I'll try to get it finished ASAP.

^^ Definitely looking forward to the tutorial, Finnegan!

@ Finnegan am also looking forward to a tutorial for that. It seems like advanced (advanced advanced) visualization, but I won't know until I hear it out 100%.

@purplepearl
I don't think that LDD can compare to LDing in the fact that you can create sensations at will in an LD if you wish (push a button and orgasm, haha) and I don't know if that is possible in a LDD. As far as I can see it is extreme visualization, so it could effect you waking life a bunch. When waking from a dream I often find my visualization enhanced, making me able to do things like play a game of chess, do long multiplication (427*6,273,035) because the amount of stability in the visuals. So in this case, lding cant conpare to LDDing. If she can do that at will, then drawing would almost be like tracing because the amount you would be able to see what you want and visualize it. Making it 100% still yours, but easier. So I think they are just different. If she can produce any effects or thoughts of LDs in waking life including the randomness that sometimes is there, then she wouldn't need LDing at all.

Feel free to correct me in any points Finnegan, this is my thoughts on it for now. I love being corrected though, because it is always a chance to learn.

I tend to stray away from words like visualization and imagination to describe the LDD as they are often misnomers, etymologically relating to sight more than general phantasia. What I would liken it to is a fully integrated virtual reality, either immersive or mediated, as any sensation that your mind can conceive is able to be used in this fashion. The title LDD is quite general and I made it as a category for a lot of sub-techniques that I make use of in my daily life. Such as simulating subjective qualities and/or replicating objects, memorization of various environments and objects or creative interaction by combining memory into new things, and either active production of the hallucination or passive observance of it, ect.

with that said, I still sleep sometimes so the LD does have it's place, and is a great training zone to develop this skill.

Hey Finnegan! I'm glad to see you are back. In the mean time, I experimented a bit more with the technique I talked about and also did a bit of research. I'd like to hear more about your way of LDDing!

Simon

The only way I have heard of people going to a lucid dream while in a wake state is through meditation.

I hate them so much! Asians... just kidding I am Asian too.

But serriously, when I was a beginner and learned new things on my own and found the most effective mindset, methods, philosophy etc. for DILDing guess what open up a Dream Yoga book and it is already discovered hundreds of years perhaps a thousand years ago...

And now when I have been learning to WILD it's the same thing most effective mindset, methods and philosophy etc. is just a description of meditation.

Maybe I should just become a monk and let a real master teach me.

Like this: (Ok not like this... xD)

Good point Mastermind, although I came to this technique through my dream twin (basically my dreamguide, somewhat like a a part of me who has spent her life living in the Drealm), during my further research I found things like Nidra Yoga, and realized this concept is actually ancient.

Can't wait until you're done with your tutorial!

^^ What matters, ultimately, is the mindset itself. Whether you got there through self-discovery, intensive research, 7 years in Tibet, divine intervention, input from DC's, or somewhere else altogether, it does not matter.

Success in LD'ing -- day or night -- doesn't depend on who thought first of what you're doing, or if someone else did a better job describing it. It depends on doing it.

But for what it's worth, humans have probably been inventing "new" processes for enhancing their dreaming, imaginative, and conscious experiences since they first woke up in that cave (or tree limb) and realized that they just had a dream, that maybe it was important, and maybe it meant there could be more.

... just sayin'

I was not frustrated that I was not inventing the stuff. I was frustrated that I had been searching for years when the answers where right in front of my nose.

Although I realize now just as you say that those years of failures is what gives the answers and process of doing it's value.

This is also why it is so hard to describe to a beginner what they need to do and keep them motivated.

Because longerm success comes from failure and learning by doing. So basically the best advice would be, go and fail and learn.

But beginners want fast result in a week or even just a night.

This is totally off topic, sorry. But I need to get this typed out both for myself with my current hurdles in pick up and for the beginners of dreamviews when it comes to lucid dreaming.

Lose your ego! Free your mind - Everybody falls the first time..

Ok back to topic, I am currently experimenting with lucid day dreaming by following the previous research and attempt from Robert Monroe and a guy named Frank Kepple. And all I can say is that it is really easy to practise and you should try this whenever you are bored on a bus or just taking a nap.
Visualize vividly and totally focus in on it, I have experienced seconds of transitioning just like when you are a beginner and succeeds a transition with DEILD in the morning for the first time, and usually get so shocked that you are snapped back out again.

But this is what is happening during the day after lunch! No pre-sleep or WBTBs and in just 10-30 minutes!

This might be every oneironauts dream, to lucid dream whenever you want and with faster induction and control of the process.

I am really believing in the future of "lding when awake"! And I am so glad to see that there are more, we might change the perspective of dreams in general.

the tutorial is released! click here

Originally Posted by Sageous

Funny, I was just reading about something very similar that was presented originally by Carl Jung called Active Imagination.

With active imagination, you essentially establish a dialogue with the parts of your mind that are usually only available during dreams. In other words, you tap your dreaming mind during waking hours and are able to enjoy the imagery usually reserved for dreams while also being able to converse with your dream-character selves. Or something like that.

I'm not sure if that made any sense, and I personally have never exercised active imagination, but it seemed such a coincidence that I was reading about it at just the same time as when this thread started, I had to share.

Also, if any Jungian psychology-followers out there can better explain his concept, I'd appreciate it...

Concerning "Active Imagination":

I have spent a few weeks devouring Jung materials (thanks again) and think I have a pretty good idea what active imagination is, though it is difficult to nail down to one method. I believe it can refer to many different states, and spans a continuum quite like lucidity itself (lucid, non-lucid, semi-lucid).

What was originally discussed in this topic would be the first kind, and I think Sivason nailed the description already so I will leave that alone.

Active Imagination *seems* to be more of a middle ground though; which can include asking questions and the like such as in lucid dreams, but can also be a more deeply involved experience such as Jung's description of falling into the abyss at his desk; a description that is still very confusing. I have been playing around with this a bit and have had unsatisfactory results at first because of my controlling nature.

However just the other day while meditating I was excessively tired and began to fall asleep. Instead of rousing myself as I usually might, I found myself on the border between HI and a real dream; that is to say it was *very* real, but I was not truly in a WILD state or in another realm (I think), I merely interacted with it. I began to have an interesting dialogue with some strange creature, who had no trouble answering all of my questions in a matter of fact way. It was quite amusing, actually. All of his answers were completely unsurprising, which probably shows that I had too much control and technically did not reach the ideal state, though I was unaware of directing anything consciously.

I have read many accounts of "Jung followers" who relax themselves and imagine their previous dream and just sort of let things play out in their heads without controlling it all. They also call this Active Imagination. This is a way lower level than the first two I have just described, so it seems that the term can mean many things. It can be the process of actually performing a kind of WILD *while meditating*, interacting with very realistic HI, or merely allowing one's imagination to flow without interference; a sort of indirect daydreaming.

Jung was obviously a natural at it, if his descriptions of "being on the verge of madness" can tell us anything.