Question For Regular LDers.

I wrote a post on here a few months ago about finding a way to Lucid every night, that involved WBTB and getting myself completely awake, then MILD or WILDing from that.
The only downside to that is it can be very difficult to fall back to sleep after waking up so much, I found ways around this but sometimes it could still be difficult getting back to sleep.

3 weeks ago though I was pretty busy at work so didn't want to WBTB but still wanted a chance at becoming Lucid, so after waking from a Non Lucid (I wake up naturally after most REM cycles) I turned on my back as that's the way I used to have the best chance of becoming Lucid before finding the way I previously mentioned.
I didn't do anything else other than turn on my back and I became Lucid that night.
The next night I thought I'd do the same thing and again became Lucid, then the next night and the next.....

It's been 3 weeks now and I've been Lucid every night at least once doing this, when before when I used to do this the most I achieved was 6 nights in a row.
The difference between getting Lucid this way and from what I was doing with the WBTB is after the WBTB, 95% of my Lucid's were WILDs and now 95% are DILDs, I just click on at some point in the Dream that I'm Dreaming.

My question is to the regular LDers, after a relatively long time having nightly LDs, or even close to nightly, do you get so accustomed to the Dream state that you just know you're Dreaming without needing the WBTB or MILD or really trying in any way?(except RCing through the day).
I don't click on I'm Dreaming in every Dream I have, I'll wake after a Non Lucid, turn on my back then fall back to sleep, I'll either have another Vivid Non Lucid, wake up and stay on my back or if I've turned to my side, turn back on my back, then have another Vivid Non Lucid, or I'll click on during the Dream and become Lucid.
This happens on average about 4-5 times a night and in 1 or 2 of them I'll become Lucid.

The only other thing I do (apart from a little prospective memory) is RC quite excessively, I've gotten into the habit of checking my awareness many times during the day no matter what I'm doing.
If people are around I just question my state in my head so I don't look like a bit of a nut case lol, so it could have a lot to do with that, I've read that RCing to much doesn't really help though so that's why I'm asking what you all think?

What nobody?

I didn't expect a list of responses but I've heard at least a few people on here can LD nightly and some others close to it.

All I'd really like to know is....
Do you still use techniques like MILD, WILD and WBTB to get Lucid every night? Or did some of you start out that way and then after some time of very regular LDs, find you didn't need them anymore?

I'm gonna be shot on this reply because I have to head to work, but let me try to point you out some key concepts:

- First of all, lucidity is like a muscle. Do you think professional athletes stop training after they win a gold medal? In the same way, when we reach regular lucidity we still continue our "practice", otherwise the regular lucids will vanish eventually. There might be some differences, but overall, the recipe is the same throughout the journey.
- Second, the thing that separates regular lucid dreams and non regular is time and habit. You might notice that when you're picking up or starting to lucid dream it takes A LOT of conscious effort to practice reality checks, mantras, techniques etc. But at some point the body gets used to that routine, and by performing it for a long time will give you regular lucids while doing the same actions, but in a much less "hassled" way. Habit formation takes time, but once you reach it, you'll see how things come much more naturally (except dream journal, that still is a pain for some people even after years of doing it xD)

WBTB is not crucial, but it can help and many people do it because it doesn't pose a problem to their routine/sleep. You'll only truly advance (as you seem to have figure it out) by finding the perfection technique for you (how and what to do). So whatever you're doing to manage those results, keep doing it, it's what all regular lucid dreamers do.

Hello again Mr0Blonde! I was going to bump this thread for you this morning but I see that it is not necessary. I am NOT a regular yet but I think for almost all people what Zoth says above seems to be true from what I have read in these forums. Many people come back to the forum after years away from lucid dreaming trying to get it back the way it was. It sounds like you're still doing things during the day to maintain that muscle, if you will, but I think most people eventually start forgetting to flex that muscle and then they lose the ability to be a regular lucid dreamer.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mr0Blonde

The only other thing I do (apart from a little prospective memory) is RC quite excessively, I've gotten into the habit of checking my awareness many times during the day no matter what I'm doing.
...I've read that RCing to much doesn't really help though so that's why I'm asking what you all think?

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RCs are one of the best tools lucid dreamers have available. Because they are practiced with awareness. Same thing you are doing - questioning your reality and RCing. I believe, this is what's getting you lucid. You are getting some nice results with it, so you may have found what works for you. Happy dreams:alien:

Thanks for the answer Zoth.
I didn't mean I was going to stop training for Lucid Dreaming all together though, I think I'm making a bad job explaining what I'm asking though.

When I first started being able to Lucid on a nightly basis I was using WBTB, MILD and WILD, I was also RCing through the day and using Prospective Memory.
I'd wake myself up with WBTB completely and get my brain as active as I could before going back to sleep and when I tried to MILD I would either get Lucid from a MILD or more often keep conscious as I fell a sleep and have a WILD.

I had many great LDs from this and will go back to it if what's happening now starts to fail but using these techniques WBTB, MILD and WILD feels like forced ways into Lucidity.
You're not self aware enough to know the difference between the Waking state and the Dream state so with these techniques you can force your way in, either by keeping consciousness (WILD) or drumming it into your head as you fall to Sleep (MILD).

What I've been wondering is, can people get so accustomed to the Dream state, or become self aware enough through habitual questioning of their state, that they can just know they are Dreaming in the majority of the Dreams they have? Without the need for "forcing" it using WBTB, WILD and MILD?

I've read Tibetan Monks who practice Dream Yoga can be so self aware that they can know they are Dreaming in every REM cycle, but I don't know if that's a different thing all together, or if I've taken a step in that direction so wanted to see if any of the very regular LDs on this forum had gone from starting with these techniques above, to then getting that level of self awareness I'm talking about?
Because if some others have then I'll know there's a good chance this will continue for me, if not on the other hand, maybe I'm just on one hell of a hot streak and I'll have to go back to my previous way of getting Lucid when they start dropping off.

Hope that all makes sense.


Cheers Fogelbise,
Hows your LDing going mate?


Thanks Gab.
Yeah I think RCing is a big part of it, it's funny though as I rarely use RCs in any of my Lucid's, I just click on and know I'm Dreaming, if I do use them it will be just a quick check to make sure before I do something that could kill me if I'm really awake.
You're right, the main help they give is the constant questioning of reality itself more than actually needing to use them so I'll definitely keep doing them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mr0Blonde

Cheers Fogelbise,
Hows your LDing going mate?

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I had a 2 lucid nights in a row with 1 lucid in the first night and 2 lucids in the 2nd night and then proceeded to get lazy and stopped really working on the fundamentals during the day...working my way back up...

I will send you a PM also. Hoping you get some more hits on this thread, especially from some LDers that seem to have the LDs on tap/on demand. I am not there yet, unfortunately and have expect that I have to put in a lot more time and energy.

If you're still RCing during the day then you're still training in the fundamental of lucidity, self-awareness. That coupled with the nighttime awakening and the lighter sleep from supine posture brings about nighttime awareness enough for lucidity.

So, far from 'not doing anything', you've actually got a very strong LD practice going.

If I stop doing everything I will continue for a few days having LDs like I was, then it will start dwindling. I agree with Ctharlie that you are actually practicing quite a bit. The more you do something the better you get at it, the less you have to try for it. I only do awareness training at night before bed (unless I am in a slump) for 10 minutes. If I am on a good sleep schedule I will wake up multiple times throughout the night and do 1-10 minutes of awareness, visualization, autosuggestion, dream incubation, also try for a WILD. So doing RCs is way more than I do throughout a day (save for slump.time) because I am getting closer to my goal of LDing without losing anything from my life. Just taking out of hobby time to get on DV. That way if I ever don't have time for DV because of work or family, I won't lose any LDs.

A lot of times I already know I am dreaming. But doing a rc in a dream is just a way to double check.

Fogelbise.

Nice one getting more Lucid's!
Thanks for the PM, I'll send you one back later or tomorrow.


Ctharlhie.

Yeah I see what you mean and thanks for answering but it's not really what I'm asking.
For the last 2 years since I started trying to Lucid Dream I've reality checked throughout the day, naturally woke up during cycles and turned on my back, however the most Lucid nights in a row (without WBTB,WILD and MILD) I achieved was 6, I'm now on 24!
When I say not really doing anything except RCs, I mean I no longer need to use WBTB, WILD and MILD and am still getting nightly Lucid Dreams without them.
RCs and turning on my back are the only things I am doing, naturally waking after cycles is natural and takes no effort from me, even my Dream Journal I only write Lucid's down, never Non Lucid's for about the last 4 months.

I just don't see why the amount of Lucid's I'm having has gone up so drastically when I'm only doing the same thing I was before (not that I'm complaining).


Brandon Boss.

Yeah I think you do your RCs different to me as I read in one of your posts you really put the effort in when you do them, it only takes about 5 seconds for me to RC, that's why I do it so frequently through the day.

It sounds good what you're doing but the thing I didn't like the most was having to wake up properly in the night! Sometimes falling back to sleep could be hard and I'll be glad if this keeps up and I don't have to do that anymore.

Good luck with yours though, not that it looks like you need it.

This is a very nice place you're in is it not? Congratulations. :)

How are your nightly lucid dreams on average? Are they long, short, vivid, stale, great control, moderate control? I'd be interested to hear a little bit more.

I do most of my WILD practise in the day, I don't keep a dream journal for dreams, I don't WBTB and I don't reality check.

I have trained my dream recall and awareness for 5-6 years so most of my awakenings now are usually like "Holy s*it! That was a dream?" sort of like you would wake up right now and realize that after reading this post that you had just been dreaming all that. So I am half paranoid... :rolleyes:

Anyway I do get some spontanious lucid moment from week to week.

But I am not a natural nor a master I am just a guy who have practised consistently year after year. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mr0Blonde

Ctharlhie.

Yeah I see what you mean and thanks for answering but it's not really what I'm asking.
For the last 2 years since I started trying to Lucid Dream I've reality checked throughout the day, naturally woke up during cycles and turned on my back, however the most Lucid nights in a row (without WBTB,WILD and MILD) I achieved was 6, I'm now on 24!
When I say not really doing anything except RCs, I mean I no longer need to use WBTB, WILD and MILD and am still getting nightly Lucid Dreams without them.
RCs and turning on my back are the only things I am doing, naturally waking after cycles is natural and takes no effort from me, even my Dream Journal I only write Lucid's down, never Non Lucid's for about the last 4 months.

I just don't see why the amount of Lucid's I'm having has gone up so drastically when I'm only doing the same thing I was before (not that I'm complaining).

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Everything you learn creates a neural connection. In this case we have what we could roughly call your 'lucidity circuit', and with the more LDs you have the stronger the wiring becomes. This is what I think the underlying process of intent and how natural and proficient lucid dreamers LD on a nightly basis with little/no effort. I don't know whether this goes further towards answering your OP?

Hi Micael.

Yeah man it is really great, that's why I'm really looking for this answer as I'm hoping it lasts!

The quality of the first couple of nights (going back to not using WBTB and the other 2 techniques) was just like when I WILD, the same as real life!
They were very Vivid, I had full waking memory and found it very easy to remember and carry out goals I wanted to achieve, it literally feels as if I've woken up in another World.

After the first couple of nights though I had 3 nights in a row where they were still very Vivid and real feeling, but I didn't have full waking memory, I would have goals I wanted to carry out but upon getting Lucid I would not veer to far from the Dream and not just go off and do my own thing like I usually would.
I started to think that getting regular Lucid's this way (DILD) wasn't going to be as good as with the WBTB/WILDing way.

After them 3 nights though they went back to being just like real life again and I can carry out, or at least attempt any goal I set and find them to be as good as WILDs, better in a way because when you WILD you are entering the Dream when it very first starts so you are in a much lighter sleep, in DILDs you have been sleeping for longer so I find them a little more stable.

Length wise they're about the same as what I was getting with the WILDs, the average Lucid lasting about 15 minutes now, they often feel longer but I go over what I did in the Lucid and gather a time from that.
I used to have to Spin a couple of times, sometimes more though to keep it with the WILDs but with these I only usually have to Spin once, I've also been working on ways to lengthen them quite a lot lately so think that could have something to do with it.
I've been waking myself up from being Lucid a few times though as I've been talking to DCs and if they say something interesting I want to remember exactly what they say.
One thing I've been trying to lengthen the Lucid's has had some pretty good side effects so I'll post something up about that in the next few days.


Mastermind.

I know exactly what you mean, the majority of mine are just like that.
Sometimes I think to myself while Lucid, I feel so awake right now yet I know at some point soon I'll wake up again from this!
It's a pretty strange feeling.


Ctharlie.

Now you're talking!
Is that fact? The neural connections getting stronger the more LDs you have?

If so that's exactly what I wanted to hear, I suspected the massive increase in LDs without needing them techniques must have had something to do with having nightly Lucid's for a few months, so that's brilliant news and would make perfect sense, thanks!

Zyzzbrah.

Sorry man I replied everyone except you, I must of missed your comment.

Yeah that's the same for me, I only use them to double check I'm actually Dreaming before doing something dangerous or something that could get me in trouble

@Mr0Blonde; in a simplified yes, every repeated behaviour effects a physical change in the brain over time due to neuronal plasticity, you could almost say that's what learning is.

This is great encouraging info!!

Waking up is easy if you practice autosuggestion. I am going to make a combined thread soon. Getting a second computer soon and me and my wife won't have to share. :P
My RCs take about 30 seconds, but they don't disrupt what I am doing in any way, in my opinion, RCing is a mild form of dream incubation, you are trying to go into the part of your brains that creates dream and create the question "am I dreaming?" In a dream. Remember that dreams don't come from what happens in your day, it is from what you think throughout the day. What is going on throughout your day. If you keep track of what makes your dreams, you should be able to make a dream from the feeling throughout the day that creates dreams. :) the best time for it (for me) is before I go to sleep and subsequent wake ups.

Also, on what Ctharlie said about learning, I agree 100%. But if you don't stick with it you will lose it, don't forget that. You won't lose the knowledge of it normally, but you will lose the "muscle memory" of it and have to start from scratch like with sports. I believe that learning any skill is the same and have treated LDing like learning everything I have ever learned since initially learning basketball. Chess, video games, LDing, calculus. It is all the same way of learning.

I LD almost every single night, and just about every single dream. My first dream of the night goes on like a regular dream for a while, then at some point I'll realize it's a dream and carry on lucid (Or I won't get lucid for that dream). Then I wake up, and go back to sleep. My dream will then usually pick up right where I left off, and only takes a second to become lucid again (it doesn't always pick up where I left off, but I still become lucid almost every time). Then I wake up and keep repeating until it's time to get up. I wake up several times a night because of this. Anywhere from 4-8 times a night. At least 90% of my dream time is lucid. It's also almost always DILD. When I wake up and go back to sleep, and the dream picks back right where I left off, it still takes me a minute to realize I'm dreaming. I very rarely go from being awake to in a dream while staying fully conscious the entire time. Also very rarely do I go the whole night without having lucids. This has been going on since I was about 5-6 years of age. When I first started getting lucids, it was because I would be creating my own dream as I was falling asleep... then when I was sleeping, my dream would resemble what I was creating and I would realize that fact and become lucid. Eventually I became so used to it that it just happens every time. It took a lot of time and practice to gain dream control and keep it going without waking up.

lol, I don't even know if that answers any of your questions. I'm extremely tired and just figured I'd try to explain my situation since I do ld regularly.