Does lucid dreaming make you smarter?

Do you think lucid dreaming can have a direct effect on your brain in some way?
I once read a rumour that lucid dreaming makes your brain cells work harder and therefore allegedly would have a positive effect, kind of like how using your brain regularly in waking life can make you smarter, and this sounds sort of reasonable to me.
It would be great if this were the case.

One thing I believe we can all agree on is that lucid dreaming at least make you cognitively smarter in the sense that you understand that you are dreaming.
You will obviously also have much better possibilities to learn from your dream experiences and your own subconscious mind, and taking control over nightmares can be an effective way to increase your self-confidence in waking life and realize any of your irrational fears.
However, does lucid dreaming actually have any direct effects on your brain?

Good question!
:)

Edit: And the answer must be yes to does it change our brains! Every thought of our´s changes the very physical properties of the brain.
So of course lucid dreams do as well anyway - but I also assume, there are specific beneficial effects associated with LD!

Hey ! i don´t think it has a direct effect, but i am quite sure from my experience that if you look deeper it can open the doors of curiosity and exploration, and this, can make you a more knowledgeable person in many ways.

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One thing I believe we can all agree on is that lucid dreaming at least make you cognitively smarter in the sense that you understand that you are dreaming

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I disagree here, but i am not sure what you mean. I don´t think lucid dreaming, per se, makes you smarter, but that would be a good experiment with lots of confounding variables.

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Originally Posted by VagalTone

I disagree here, but i am not sure what you mean. I don´t think lucid dreaming, per se, makes you smarter, but that would be a good experiment with lots of confounding variables.

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What I meant was that lucid dreaming should technically make us smarter in terms of how good we are at recognizing the dreamstate.
Think of it as a kind of "awareness IQ". :cheeky:
I was thinking that maybe this sort of extra awareness would stimulate your brain better during the dreams so that it had beneficial effects.
After all, in lucid dreams we are much more aware than in normal dreams so our brain should be more "awake" and active, which in my mind seems like it should stimulate your brain cells in some way.

From the research we see so far, the brain is extrememy active when we dream. When we become lucid, our brainwaves change and resemble more our waking state. At the same time we experience higher brain activity in certain regions as you may have guessed.

Now, lucid dreaming does not make us smarter per say, but to some point, we could consider it to be a cognitive (and motor!) enhancer, due the possibility of improving certain skills without any effort.

Where it gets interesting is when that "awareness" you mention (meta-consciousness or self awareness could be other terms for it), starts to become a regular event. This wouldn't necessarily make us smarter, but it would bring many relevant benefits: think people who tend to loose contact with reality, like dementia patients, schizophrenics, just to mention 2 examples.

The thing is: do we need lucid dreaming for that? Is it really the responsible agent? Because if you think about it, what is making you lucid are actually actions you perform in the waking life :)

Still, I'd also agree with people saying that AT LEAST, lucid dreaming can bring many positive psychological benefits to those who practice.

Ps: just realized that my point only stands if we assume waking life practice and the lucid dreams themselves as 2 different components.

That's a very interesting question

The only thing that I've noticed is that there is a parallel between my having greater control over dreams and having greater control over my thoughts and feelings in waking life. In other words, as I become better at sitting, listening to silence, watching my thoughts float along without attaching myself to them, I also become better at doing whatever I want in my dreams. I'm not sure if that is because I believe that it makes me have more control, if there is some actual change in the brain's physiology, or if it is just learning how to smile at that little voice that nags at you saying, 'no you can't do that', and put it in the backseat of your reality.

In any case, I would say that learning how to control your own mind is it's own kind of useful intelligence.

It all makes sense - awareness-IQ - hm - maybe there is indeed something measurable, a faculty having to do with orientation and anchoring in the environment and assessment of inner states - something that would rather necessarily be getting a good training by LD.

And I also have been wondering, if being proficient in LD might not be beneficial to a person with - for example - schizophrenia.
There was a thread lately, with somebody wondering as to the opposite effect - that RC and going for LD might lead to "insanity".

I do not have an opinion (maybe yet..) - maybe the borders of what is real do get more fluid and even less discernible.
But my optimistic tendencies say - theoretically and under thorough and good professional guidance - it could well be a really valuable tool..

That you can train your brain for whatever it is you do in your dreams - normal dreams also, probably - I find very easily acceptable.
Esp. since the very same brain-regions are active while - for example - running and dream-running.
While you can only confirm this to be true for LD - this is probably also true for normal dreams.

What really astounded me thoroughly - there is a guy, who starts out playing darts with us.
When I talked to a mate of his and mine - he told me, he had asked him, how come he is improving without having a board of his own.

No joke - really - the guy had answered he would always dream of throwing darts, since he started!
That without me telling about my plans to lucid-dart one day - well - now they all know!
Got to ask this board-less guy next time, if he might even be lucid - now that would be some discovery - I hardly know him, and he was here only twice for playing darts..

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Originally Posted by anotherdreamer

That's a very interesting question

The only thing that I've noticed is that there is a parallel between my having greater control over dreams and having greater control over my thoughts and feelings in waking life. In other words, as I become better at sitting, listening to silence, watching my thoughts float along without attaching myself to them, I also become better at doing whatever I want in my dreams. I'm not sure if that is because I believe that it makes me have more control, if there is some actual change in the brain's physiology, or if it is just learning how to smile at that little voice that nags at you saying, 'no you can't do that', and put it in the backseat of your reality.

In any case, I would say that learning how to control your own mind is it's own kind of useful intelligence.

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Congratulation!
I have hopes in exactly this direction as well - for when I´ll be a bit more experienced.

What you describe makes perfect sense - and it sounds like a huge achievement in terms of psychological development and health.
To gain a better level of dream-control should really coincide with a great deal of bigger self- and real-life control.
The use of attention and emotion to your benefit - actually steer what you think, feel and perceive - you should gain a greater autonomy for yourself as individual.
And also it should free up creative potential - imaginative scope.
In real life many perceived limitations to what is possible are only imaginary too.
Self-inflicted or taken on from society.
I´m not saying all is possible - and I do not harbour any supernatural hopes here, mind you - what I mean is finding new and not thought of real-life solutions, which wouldn´t have come to you otherwise, maybe.

I am sure, many, many aspects around this whole subject will be researched in the near future, and we will see more and more results telling us, what exactly can all be measured concerning beneficial effects.
This present time with LD spreading into common practice - should be real party-time for psychology/psychiatry-research - as well as neurobiology in general.

:yumdumdoodledum:

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Originally Posted by StephL

What really astounded me thoroughly - there is a guy, who starts out playing darts with us.
When I talked to a mate of his and mine - he told me, he had asked him, how come he is improving without having a board of his own.

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There was a study where they trained mice to do certain tasks, I think it was going through a maze to capture cheese or something. The mice would only be able to reach a certain skill level by practicing it a lot and then they would no longer improve until they went to sleep. The next day the mice would show a lot more improvement instantly, as though they had been practicing all night in their dreams. I know that I practice stuff all the time in my dreams too, from piano to martial arts. It's usually only things that involve repeatable muscle movements.

AND I read another study that talked about how we can work out in our dreams and build actual muscle mass by doing so. It was the finger experiment! Where some subjects would exercise their finger for so long and others would imagine that they were exercising their fingers for the same amount of time. Those that were imagining the exercises developed almost as much muscle mass as those that were actually doing the physical movements. I think you can google it, it's called From mental power to muscle power—gaining strength by using the mind

I know the studies, actually, anotherdreamer!
Cool that you do as well!

And - Zoth will know more - there is also one with throwing coins in buckets - with lucid dreamers practising in LD having amazing skill rises, without practising in real life..
He will probably be able to say more..

And - we have a relatively new and quite inactive member - MelSchaedlich - but she is a German psychology researcher - and she did a study on what lucid dreamers use LD for.

Her saying hello on here: hello from a researcher

And here you can download her paper as pdf - or read it - from university Heidelberg: Applications of lucid dreams

Soo - maybe she is doing other things at the moment - but there is actual work done.

Aand - check out this thread: http://www.dreamviews.com/lucid-drea...ess-brain.html

Interesting topic. I have a few points to add.

Lucid dreaming is a creative practice that taps new skills and sensations. In this way, it can be similar to meditation, learning a new language, learning to draw, or learning to write with your opposite hand. These activities tend to improve mental function by increasing neuroplasticity. But lucid dreaming isn't so special in this sense, as many other activities promote the same thing. Still, I think lucid dream can open up curiosity of other topics for more learning and neuroplasticity.

Lucid dreaming also increases time in REM through repetition and intent. Current scientific models of sleep emphasize that it's a period of recovery, with NREM mostly benefiting the body and REM mostly benefiting the mind. Spending more time in REM could plausibly allow for more mental recovery to improve alertness, learning, memory, etc. Here, it's not so much lucid dreaming but the side effect of more REM. On the other hand, too much REM is associated with depression.

Finally, as mentioned above, lucid dreaming is an opportunity to practice skills, similar to mental rehersal which is often used by athletes and musicians. I think though this is most effective when paired with real practice.

Awesome, StephL, thanks! I love reading papers about this stuff

Sisyphus, I completely agree, those are the most undeniable results and benefits of lucid dreaming. But I also feel as though there is something more to the ability that I've noticed has improved throughout the years as a result from lucid dreaming (controlling my mind and my body through conscious intent). The theory that I have been taught in school says that our emotions and our body's processes are controlled by biochemical reactions that take place in a very ordered manner, like a machine. In this theory, love, happiness, depression would be nothing more than biochemical reactions taking place, driven by hormones and stimuli. But I think that the relationship between the body and consciousness is a reciprocal relationship, not a one way relationship where the body's reactions would completely determine what is consciously observed. I believe that our consciousness has the ability to impact our bodies just as effectively. So in learning to control our minds and our bodies through lucid dreaming, I think that we are developing a great deal of power in controlling both our conscious perspective of reality and the health of our bodies.

There is absolutely no doubt about the mind - and also consciously - having the ability to influence the body on a physical level!
Think about placebo-effects - and - all your brain-activity changes the brain physically - and what it does to the rest of the body as well.
Or think of yogis.

I read somewhere, that you can in LD, if you are experienced - you can "ask" you subconsciousness about what it knows about your body - which might have escaped your conscious attention.
And actually also give valuable advice as to what to do about it.
Since I believe there is a lot of such knowledge hidden in the brain somewhere.
Maybe you can even use this special state of mind to directly influence your body - say - boost immune-system function, regeneration/repair-effects, maybe even help with more complex stuff like chronic pain..?
Maybe esp. in nREM LD for some things (coming to this idea now from another thread..)?

I can well imagine this to work - at least to a certain extent - and this extent might be bigger, than most expect just now.
There is a lot of science to be done!!

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Originally Posted by StephL

Maybe you can even use this special state of mind to directly influence your body - say - boost immune-system function, regeneration/repair-effects, maybe even help with more complex stuff like chronic pain..?
Maybe esp. in nREM LD for some things

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Yea! this is something that I have first hand experience with. One example is when I was a little kid, about 12, I had these warts on my hands and nothing the doctors did would make them go away. They tried burning them, freezing them, chemically burning them, cutting them out, nothing would work. So the doctor finally told me that I should try to use my mind to get rid of them. So I came home and meditated for a couple hours on my immune system recognizing them and getting rid of them. It was one of the first times that I have focused so intensely on controlling my body. Three days later, the great wart civilization died and fell off my hand and it has never returned.

And you mentioned the placebo effect. I believe that it is the single most powerful, underutilized tool in western medicine. I also suspect that the extent to which you can use the placebo effect is tied in with the very skills that are developed in lucid dreaming. It's one of the things that I really want to research :D

Intesting post, anotherdreamer. That doctor is quite interesting too.

And placebo effect, as well as nocicebo, deserves a very serious research. What the hell is really going on ? I think this line of research may eventually clarify some relationships between mind and brain, how these two interact.

Soo - if we really want to participate in finding out about how LD can make us smarter - here is the opportunity:

http://www.dreamviews.com/research/1...ml#post2065396

Check this out please!

This may interest you and may help to clarify this discussion. It seems that, in fact, lucid dreamers have a higher need for cognition. Check out these two articles

Lucid dreaming: associations with internal locus of control, need for cognition and creativity

Lucid Dreaming: Is Need for Cognition Associated with Lucid Dreams?