New Theory: Using REM Rebound to Increase Dream Awareness and Lucidity

It seems to me like conventional lucid dreaming wisdom states that the longer you sleep, the better it is for lucid dreams, because REM (dream) sleep is longer the more you sleep.

But some recent experimenting and reading on my part has led me to come up with a somewhat contradictory theory that seems new, in that I do not recall reading it before on lucid dreaming sites. It fits in with this article nicely:
Strange but True: Less Sleep Means More Dreams: Scientific American

It states:

""When someone is sleep deprived we see greater sleep intensity, meaning greater brain activity during sleep; dreaming is definitely increased and likely more vivid," says neurologist Mark Mahowald of the University of Minnesota and director of the Minnesota Regional Sleep Disorders Center in Minneapolis."

"Nielsen also found that dream intensity increased with REM deprivation. Subjects who were only getting about 25 minutes of REM sleep rated the quality of their dreams between nine and eight on a nine-point scale (one being dull, nine being dynamite)."

In my view, dream vividness, dream awareness, dream recall, and lucidity (or nearness to it) are all closely related, if not the same thing. If a dream is vivid, it is the same as easily recalled. And the reason it is so vivid and memorable is because you were aware of what was going on. And the more aware you are, the more likely you are to remember to reality check or realize it is all a dream and become lucid. So these are all different ways of expressing more or less the same concept.

I have found that if I have a sleep debt, and wake myself up a few times during the night, I find it much easier to recall a detailed dream and journal it each of those awakenings, than if I had plenty of sleep previously.

I have read about REM rebound elsewhere on lucid dreaming sites, but it always seems to refer to either using alcohol, etc. to suppress REM early in the night to have a rebound later in the same night, or to refer to total sleep deprivation to force a rebound.

My theory refers to neither. Say you naturally sleep 8-9 hours a night. My theory is that (assuming you start with no sleep debt) if you sleep only, say, 6-7 hours that night, the missing REM of those last 2 or so hours rebounds the following night, meaning more recall, higher vividness, more awareness, and a higher chance of becoming lucid. If you get 6-7 hours that night also, the effect is compounded the night after that.

It still is very important to dream journal and to reality check regularly. I use an alarm to wake myself up several times in the night to journal my dreams.

Has anyone else found something like this to work for them?

Not wanting to burst your originality bubble but this idea has been around a long time, it's used in the CAT method and mentioned in the book Are You Dreaming?

Other than it not being new, it's still a good idea and does work :-)

I'm sure it isn't original, if it's not original I don't mind, just as long as it helps.

It seems to me though that Cycle Adjustment Technique is different (although a very good technique itself). What I read about CAT talks nothing about the REM rebound effect, rather they all talk about having more awareness at the end of sleep because the mind is used to being awake then. My theory has nothing to do with being asleep when you are normally awake, rather it has to do with building up REM causing it to be longer and more vivid in following nights.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Matt1

I'm sure it isn't original, if it's not original I don't mind, just as long as it helps.

It seems to me though that Cycle Adjustment Technique is different (although a very good technique itself). What I read about CAT talks nothing about the REM rebound effect, rather they all talk about having more awareness at the end of sleep because the mind is used to being awake then. My theory has nothing to do with being asleep when you are normally awake, rather it has to do with building up REM causing it to be longer and more vivid in following nights.

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It's definitely part of it. Read the book by the guy who invented it, it talks about exactly what you're saying. Also try googling CAT rem rebound, it's in the original text.

Quote:

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from the Scientific American article In a 2005 study published in Sleep, Nielsen showed that losing 30 minutes of REM one night can lead to a 35 percent REM increase the next night—subjects jumped from 74 minutes of REM to a rebound of 100 minutes.

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Based on the above, one could use a REM Dreamer to wake themselves up when they go into REM sleep, and thus build up the rebound effect. From what I understand there is this kind of wake-up function built in to the REM Dreamer.

Anyone here experimented with REM deprivation to build up the rebound effect? Results?

Niall

A few days ago, I was sleep deprived(don't know if that counts). Next day, a very very long crazy vivid NLD.

LucidMoon, you're right it is in the original. Surprised that aspect is not mentioned more.

LouaiB, yes that is a perfect example of my theory. If you lose sleep one night, all the long REM of your last sleep cycle(s) gets put into the following night, meaning dreams that are more vivid (and more aware/lucid, hopefully, if you've done your journaling and reality checks).

Interesting...I had only a couple of hours sleep last night. I don't normally have this problem but simply couldn't sleep all night. Good timing for me to see this, I wouldn't want to deprive myself of sleep but I didn't exactly choose to this time so I guess I'll see if I get a difference.

After my night of very little sleep 2 nights ago, last night was very typical recall for me, though I did notice the dreams I remember were spread evenly through the night rather than being biased to the morning after several hours of sleep. I also think I just missed getting a LD.

Now I wouldn't want to be drawing conclusions from one night like this, I never did intend to, I just thought it would be interesting to see what happened since I'd by chance got the right setup.

Well, sleeping longer and being sleep deprived are two different ways to get enhanced dreams and lucids. They both have pros and cons and they can be used based on your schedule.

Sleeping longer
During our sleep we go through sleep cycles. Each is about 90 min long. First cycle starts with about 80 min of NREM and ends with 10 min of REM. Each time they repeat, NREM gets shorter and REM longer.

Since we know that REM dreams are what we are aiming for, logic dictates, that after about 8 hrs of sleep, we have better chance of getting lucid than at the beginning of the sleep. Simply because we spend more time in REM. We are also closer to waking up, so our mind is slowly waking and getting aware, and that means better chance of getting aware in a dream.

REM rebound
When we are sleep deprived, or something prevents first few REM stages to happen at the beginning of a sleep, then we get something called REM rebound. It means, that we get more REM to make up for the lost one.

So, if you can sleep in, do that to have a better chance of a lucid and have some cool dreams that you are more likely to remember.

If you are forced to study or work all night, use that to your advantage. Please know, that REM rebound only works to the certain extend. If you make yourself to stay up past certain hours, then you are more likely to pass our into unconsious deep sleep and not get any REM rebound.

Since articulating my theory here, I've haven't been needing to get up early too much, so I just sleep in and don't test my theory :cheeky: But one night I only got about 6 hours sleep, then the following night when sleeping in I did have better recall when awakening. Towards waking I almost got lucid, but convinced myself I could exhale through a closed nose because I was blowing hard enough.

For at least the next two nights though I will be getting up early, and when I do my reality checks I have been remembering my intention to either SSILD or FILD, so I make sure to remember to try those on awakenings after journaling any dreams. If it works I will report back.

Okay so after trying this for a while... It seems like dream recall/vividness takes a hit when behind on sleep a lot, at least for me. And, I fall back asleep so quickly, FILD and SSILD don't work. I'm still tinkering around with this, but so far, it seems best to strike a balance between too much sleep and too little sleep.