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hello friends, i want to become a world class guitarist , i believe my talent , but later 2 or 3 years , my goal may change into just a ordinary life , but i heard somewhere if you seed anything in your subconscious, it will never let you to change your goal until you achieve , so i want to talk with my subconscious and seed my goal. hope lucid dream will works for these type of experiment , is it possible ?
I've heard of this idea, but cannot offer a solid answer.
There are stories of people who've talked to their subconscious through lucid dreaming for various reasons. Lucid dreaming is a powerful thing, and anything is indeed possible, so I say go for it.
That sounds more like an "Inception" myth... honestly, I'm not sure it works in real life. However, I have no proof either way, so you should give it a try. If it works, great! If it doesn't, no harm done. :)
Before answering, one has to ask:
If you end up changing your goal, is that a bad thing? If you're going for a goal that you don't want or are interested in, why would you force yourself to it? That will only lead disappointment and pressure.
Regarding the answer, no it's not possible, and if it was possible, it would be the worst way to do it. When goal-setting, the worst path for it's completion is leaving it in "your subconscious": you'll be much better off to keep it as constant in your life, like reminding yourself every day why you are working towards it, why you want to complete it, etc. Secondly, "intentional" unconscious seeding doesn't exist (afaik). Subliminal messages have little to no impact on the individual in most cases, and we still don't know what we are exactly dealing with when we lucid dream: your subconscious is not an identity, but more something like a group of systems that process information without you being aware of them.
If you really want to keep your motivation on becoming a guitarist high and long-lasting, then practice lucid dreams and live your own "guitarist" life in there ;)
I can CONFIRM that this WILL work if you do it correctly.
I didn't actually "seed" an idea, but more of subconscious motivation.
I can say it did help me, but it has to be paired with conscious effort as well, obviously.
thanks mate
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Originally Posted by DreamscapeGoat
yes it is, hope it worksQuote:
Originally Posted by LucasPotter
hello mate, ya you are partially right, but have you heard ? mind is a monkey, it will change if something shows up in your way which is better than your goal, and that's end with a frustration of never achieving any of your goal, so i want to stick with my goal, and concentration not only in reality but also in dreams , so that i can twice as faster than normal to reach my destination i suppose :) correct me if i am wrongQuote:
Originally Posted by Zoth
that's sounds awesome mate, please guide me ,looking forward to your replyQuote:
Originally Posted by SinisterDezz
Honestly? You're sabotaging your efforts by trying to remove the emphasis of discipline and put it in your "mind". You are your mind, you will be the one who get's distracted by goals or tasks that seem way more appealing at some point. The ability to focus on your project is not thanks to any special secret like planting your intention in a lucid dream, but due things like the Zeigarnik effect, just to mention one. The science of productivity and habits shows even shows us that it's not a matter of goals, but more a matter of developing behavioral systems: having a goal will pressure you into not failing, dragging yourself into doing something you may find dreadful, and if you fail, you'll become disappointed. The best goal is no goal. In the other hand, by setting up systems, you will be able to determine the best way to avoid temptations that might show up in the future, developing and re-evaluating your discipline (and other possible flaws in your way), and best of all, your actions will become automatic, because the process will be no longer about reaching that goal, but simply performing consistently (in your way, keeping focused on your guitar).Quote:
Originally Posted by karthik
Also, and this cannot be stressed enough, there's no "subconscious" in your brain. It's not like you could grab an intention and drop it there, like it was some kind of mental place, so there's no such thing as seeding something in the subconscious. People reporting it that it's possible do it without any proof: how would you even know you successfully planted something in your subconscious, if it's SUBconscious? Lucid dreaming also doesn't put you in any favored position to implement memories (much less intentions), especially because your memory is already impaired in most of them. You'll do it much better without those mysterious ideas ;) Good luck!
So if I understand correctly you would like to seed a goal into your subconscious, because you dont want to be redirected to other things in real life than playing guitar? Why do you think that doing it like this you will be good at guitar much faster? I agree more with Zoths thinking. I dont think it is a good idea to plant it in your head. Because people change. So will you and everybody here. What if you do succeed into your goal planting, and later in life you would find something better more appealing than guitar playing and you will still play the guitar because it is in your head to do it. That will maybe make you unhappy. If you really want to be a world class guitar player.. it is in your waking life to acomplish that. It is called practice. And if you get demotivated and frustrated about practicing then you are not ment to be a world class guitar player. You are ment to be something else. I am also a guitar player, not world class, because i am not sacrificing and dedicating my whole life for guitarplaying though i will never be world class. I had similar dream when i was younger as well, but now something else is making me happy, and I dont want to be the best guitarist ever and i dont feel bad about not acomplishing my youth dreams at all. But please let me know how is your progress going.. and good luck at acomplishing your dreams!
The only thing I can suggest is hypnosis or self-hypnosis. Self-hypnosis done correctly can work wonders! It's all about achieving a deep trance state and implanting idea's on that level. Idea's can be seeded in but also weeded out, however, you should be very careful doing this alone.
There are a few people around the world who experiment with this kind of thing. Most notably the monroe institute with their hemi-sync series (although this is more for OBE's), but other people like Jose Silva, John La Tourette, Paul Scheele, James K. Van Fleet - just to name a few pioneers.
well....hmm alright mate, then at least motivation from subconscious ??Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoth
But i really really hate that, i want to fix my goal ,please suggest me something :(, i want to devote my life to musicQuote:
Originally Posted by wolfgarr
have you tried this mate?Quote:
Originally Posted by Eonnn
Well, only you can answer that OP. Everyone is different. Give it a try and tell us how it goes?
yes i will, any procedure? , i dont even know how to do it, any precautions ? do's n dont's ?
I think what would be better for this kind of thing is hypnosis. I don't know a lot about it though, so the only advice I can give you is the following. If you want to become good at, for example, guitar playing then keep telling yourself a mantra. They are used for LD as well. If you don't know what a mantra is: It is a phrase that bears some sort of meaning for you, that you constantly repeat to yourself. I.e. "I will practice the guitar every day" or "I will become the best guitar player ever!" and say that OVER AND OVER when you, for example, take a walk or when you cycle to the train station.Quote:
Originally Posted by karthik
Besides that you can also meditate and repeat a mantra (I've only experience with concentration meditation though). Perhaps you can try meditating INSIDE of your lucid dream? I haven't tried that yet, but I would love to hear people's experience on this as well.
Last but not least, play guitar in your dream. Any setting, any song, anything that has to do with it. Best of luck karthik.
Mantra is a good idea, Karthik just do a search on google and research self-hypnosis. There are step by step instructions which are easy to find.
@Athylus: I meditated inside the core of the earth once it was fantastic! everytime I meditate in a dream I achieve much deeper states of being than I would IRL.
Thanks for sharing Eonnn! Sounds pretty awesome, whenever I've tried it I would wake up. There's much more room for improvement when it comes to LDing.
oh thanks lot mate, thanks for your guidance, hope it will work , and yeah that's where everything lies , i have to think my goal all the time
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Originally Posted by Athylus
yes bro, i will, thanks for your reply, and are you sure about that ? i mean meditation in dreams
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Originally Posted by Eonnn
Well the issue is complex, I would definatley say that you can plant those types of ideas in your head. To the sceptics I would point out that dreams are your subconsious so dream control is basically the manipulation of your subconsious mind what matters is the degree of controll you can have. To be honest we probably convince our subconsious of things by our thought processes via waking life all the time i know i do. I think its dangerous and would take alot of practice. The safest root would be to do this slowly sometimes you change for a reason also if I may I think it would be alot safer to just talk to dcs and your subconscious so that you could understand yourself better. I personally believe that when you have a better understanding of yourself you have a better idea of what you have to do in your waking life to change yourself in some way. Everyone has a passion but you should also be open to other possibillities as well imo excuse the bad spelling im running short on time
So basically you want to be a world class guitarist, but you are afraid that your goal may change. You shouldn't be afraid of that: if, some day, you decide you don't want to be a guitarist anymore, just forget about it.
Anyway, you can definetely achieve your goal: if you can imagine it, you can get it, simple as that.
As for the "how", look for creative visualization ;) Very briefly (google it for more details): if you visualize yourself as already being a world class guitarist, you'll create this mental image in your mind and your brain will perceive it as real because it cannot distinguish what is imagined from what is real (otherwise we'd be always lucid in our dreams, for example). This imagine will then be transferred to your reticular activating system which will then find ways to achieve that image in the real world in a totally unconscious way. You may for example bump "accidentally" into a person who can help you in your journey while doing that ;)
This stuff is powerful, so I really suggest trying it, I've achieved great thing with it. Bear in mind though that if you stop thinking about, this thoughts will go dormant and your reticular activating system will focus on something else, so don't worry about possible changes of mind.
Have fun with it ^^
So if you plant and Idea in you subconscious its basically not permanent as hypnosis? It requires maintnence? hmmm thats interesting. Do you know if this applies to actually talking to your sc and directly asking things? Do you also have personal exp with this? I have honestly been interested in this idea as well but have been a little afraid of it in case i change something i dont want to.
Well, I'm not an expert of course, and I've never been hypnotized (I've tried self hypnosis a couple of times though), but one thing I know for sure is this: nothing is permanent. That means that even if you have a very strong belief about something, that belief can be changed and this new belief can be changed again and so on for, like, for ever.
A belief is basically a neural pathway strenghtened by time (the more you think/experience it, the more it gets strong) which thus fires very often. If you stop putting your attention on it and focus on something else constantly, this neural pathway will go dormant and will less likely fire automatically.
If, for example, you have a belief that looks matter in seduction, thoughts concerning this belief will pop up automatically. But if you stop putting your attention on it and start thinking about the opposite (especially when in a deeply relaxed state, like when visualizing or under hypnosis), the new belief will become the dominant one, while the previous will go dormant.
As for the talking to the sc thing, I personally did it in my dreams, solving some problems that concerned me. I had some worries about relationships and I asked myself "how can I solve these problems?", without coming up with an answer. I found it in a dream (NLD). Of course it's not something very deep..you don't find an answer and then act accordingly immediately like in hypnosis, you still have to put your focus on it consciously for a while, but it's a start ;)
Hope I clarified things up :P
Thanks man :) so just to clarify... Talking to your sc and asking for something wont have immediate results you have to want it? My problem is that I have alot of negative intrusive thoughts which i am trying to make more positive so i am worried that i may ask for the wrong thing and I appear to have a really easy time at convincing myself of things.
Here's the deal
You can't talk to your subconscious. Your subconscious is the medium that allows you to exist, every action you have ever undertaken was in some way dealt with by the subconscious. To think that you may talk to it is absurd, it is not a separate entity.
The subconscious is an aggregation of mental processes that are not within focal awareness, it is a component of your brain as much as any other. These processes interact so heavily within every part of the brain that it is virtually impossible to say that the subconscious is a separate entity. As you refer to it, as if it is a person and can think on it's own implies that it exhibits the exact properties that make us conscious. How does it make sense for the subconscious to exhibit conscious actions?
I don't want to be harsh, but this is the reality of the situation.
The best way to become a good guitarist is by practicing and getting your name out there. Trying to talk to an imaginary figure within your dreams will give you a small boost at best. As repeated a few times by the more intelligible posts here; the brain is extremely malleable, besides the fact that the "subconscious seed" you speak of doesn't actually exist as some like to propose, your ideas may change drastically over time. Ambitions are built through affirming your potential and by producing positive results through earnest work.
Of course there's no such a thing as the subconscious as an entity, the "talk to the subconscious" thing or the "plant a seed in the subconscious" thing is just a metaphor.
Point is, everything we think&believe and thus do&achieve is governed by the subconscious, which, I repeat, is not an entity, but rather a series of neural pathways built in time which fire automatically, without consciously thinking about them (thus "subconscious"). About 90% of our behaviour is totally automatic, subconscious. When we drive a car there is almost nothing we do conciously. Same goes for playing the guitar.
As for the "be a world class guitarist" though, it's truly possible to influence it with visualization and I have first hand experience with it. If OP was already a world class guitarist, he would have a series of experiences and beliefs that determine he's a world class guitarist, just like I have experiences and beliefs that allow me to drive a car. Since the brain doesn't distinguish what is real from what is imagined, you can install these experiences and beliefs into your brain. The rest is automatically filled.
Just an example: you are thirsty and you want to drink a glass of water. You have this mental image, conscious or unconscious, of you drinking a glass of water. All the steps between "I'm sitting on my couch and I'm thirsty" and "I'm drinking a glass of water" are automatically filled. Does that mean that if OP is now a rookie and he plants these fake experiences into his brain of him being a world class guitarist he'll automatically become one? Of course not, the brain still needs some time and "experiments" to reach that point, but it will eventually achieve it. It's just how our brain works.
What do you mean by automatically filled? In that same example it is just as likely that he could be distracted by something and forget to drink water all together. It happens to me rather frequently in fact.
The only reason you know what to do when you want to drink a glass of water is because you have repeated the action so many times that it does not require conscious intervention.
You cannot compare a series of motor actions becoming habitual to becoming a world class guitarist.
Most importantly though is that, the reason I said the "plant a seed in the subconscious" doesn't exist is not because you can't plant one, but because it outside of your control to retain it.
The whole method is flawed, since you cannot know what idea you have implanted. The subconscious is what regulates out deepest doubts and fears, if someone who is not confident enough in themselves (To learn something through repetition and hard work) turns to the "subconscious" to implant an idea , they would be equally vulnerable to implanting the idea that subconscious will turn on them.
At best this method will give you a little boost, perhaps some motivation for a week, maybe a bit more. Just like how you learned to react to becoming thirsty, the strive for becoming a world class guitarist should be earned through repetition. Unfortunately neural pathways aren't formed by taking to an illusionary metaphor once, especially when you know that it's a metaphor.
In fact you are not supposed to do it once.
Ok, I've been a little harsh..anyway, have you ever tried to do it? Do you have proof it doesn't work? (Ok, still harsh, I'm in a bad mood :P )
I'm feeling better, I'll expand on my answer ^^
Of course you can be distracted, like in anything else..the point is that you should do that often so that you constantly keep you reticular activating system on it and this thought gets stronger.
"Most importantly though is that, the reason I said the "plant a seed in the subconscious" doesn't exist is not because you can't plant one, but because it outside of your control to retain it." - False. Like I said, you simply keep repeating it until it sinks in, simply staying present and observing any arising fearful or doubtful thought.
"The subconscious is what regulates out deepest doubts and fears, if someone who is not confident enough in themselves (To learn something through repetition and hard work) turns to the "subconscious" to implant an idea , they would be equally vulnerable to implanting the idea that subconscious will turn on them." - This is self image related, but the self image can be modified (read Psycho-Cybernetics). Besides, like I said previosly, everytime a doubtful thought arises, you simply observe it and let it go (try meditation if you don't know what I'm talking about). Focus on the positive, ignore/let go the negative, focus on the positive, ignore/let go the negative and so on.
"At best this method will give you a little boost, perhaps some motivation for a week, maybe a bit more." - That's why, like I said, you are supposed to repeatedly keep doing it, hopefully till you reach your goal. Of course it's obvious that by simply visualizing that he's a world class guitarist OP won't go very far, he still needs to take action. Nonetheless, it's a powerful tool.
"Unfortunately neural pathways aren't formed by taking to an illusionary metaphor once, especially when you know that it's a metaphor." - This is still a doubtful thought. You should rather see it as a helping tool.
Well clearly that would work, but it is different to what the OP intended, the term "planting a seed" infers that you only have to do it once. Besides it would still require a great deal of work that could be just as easily affirmed by just playing guitar.
your technique could work wonders for public speaking, or perhaps gaining confidence for going on stage. That same potential just isn't here.
Confidence for a practical skill such as playing an instrument is best learned through repetition of the action itself, as is the ability to play the instrument.
Also I never really directed my first post towards yours, it was more aimed towards the first few posts.
I understand entirely where you are coming from, I did at a point gain a deal of comfort out of communicating with DC's as if they were people. It would be much more suitable if the OP tried to create an image that he could learn an extra hard song within the next week, or do a great gig in his local bar etc etc. The method you outline is suited well for small goals, not so much for huge goals that require an immense amount of work (and often talent).
No hard feelings by the way. The topic interests me, just looking for a good discussion :)
Yeah, first off I want to apologize..I was just not feeling good and I kind of attacked you..so, no hard feelings ^^
Anyway, as far as the "planting a seed" thing is concerned..a seed, even in real life, must be hosed :P
As far as the becoming better at playing an instrument thing, it's actually possible to practice the right things to do with visualization/LD. Michael Jordan did it when it came to having perfect shots and winning games, so it can be done as a supplement to real life practice with instruments too.
Anyway, yeah, it works wonders for small goals and it takes more time with big ones, like OP's one. In spite of that, I still believe it's useful because it keeps you on track and constantly having this mental image of you having already accomplished your goal keeps you motivated and lets you move forward.