The origins of humanity

[BjStrife]

I just watched an episode of "Ancient Aliens", where they discussed the theory that humans could have been engineered by aliens, or rather the primitive species were "upgraded" into homo sapiends etc. I can't say I either support or reject such theories, but one thing they mentioned was that the information about human origin is stored within our DNA, we just don't know how to access it. Now - would it be possible to ask about such information in a lucid dream? Might your subconsciousness tell you the truth about our DNA? Might we possibly find out which of the current theories are true? If there is some truth to the bible (creation), whether it was just the standard evolution proposed by Darwin, or maybe even the alien engineering thing? I'd try it myself, but I didn't practice LDing for about a year and am just trying to get back into it, so it might take a while before I get the chance to try this. Could any of you (more experienced guys) give this a try and share the results? Or is this even possible? I think this might be a really amazing discovery, or at least an interesting idea to try out.

[Zoth]

(Since you posted in General Lucid Discussion, I'll address your post on the basis of dreaming): I can't say I either support or reject such theories, but one thing they mentioned was that the information about human origin is stored within our DNA, we just don't know how to access it. We do know how to access to a large extent. We are able to determine the percentage of DNA we share with other living organisms, we are able to read it, separate it from the junk DNA, and even alter it in some ways. What we can't do is access something like DNA through anthropomorphism: it would a bit like trying to talk with a screen of binary code. Those theories are fascinating, but they go against pretty much everything we know regarding biology. Regarding testing something like this in a lucid dream, it's impossible: it's somewhat impossible to achieve objective knowledge through dream experience for obvious reasons. Hell, it's already impossible to perceive reality objectively Anyway, dreams might even be considered a layer behind: if you talk to Freud in a ld, you aren't talking to Freud; if walk to a park, you are not walking at all, least there is no park. Lucid dreaming is ultimately 100% "role-play" and mostly unconscious one: you assume rules to function because the experience can only resemble experiences from your own life: if you tell a person to lucid dreaming and find a person with a bad case of Pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis, the person (assuming she doesn't know what this is) will dream with something random. In fact, one can advance in lucid dreaming by taking into account his/her own biases, and include them in their perspective of lucidity. One basic degree of dream control that exemplifies this perfectly is how people adapt to their own form of flying. But you can never ask something (like a DC with a card saying "I represent BjStrife's DNA") and get an objective answer. Even in terms of personal information (think something like feelings, emotions, worries), lucid dreamers can be extremely biased: think of a person who is very depressed and thinks she will never get better tries asking a dream character if she will overcome this. The DC can answer anything based on what the dreamer wants to hear, fears to hear, expects to hear, or what the guy in that mental health tv program said 2 years ago when the person was distracted looking for a lost earring under the couch. Your "subconscious", not as an identity, but as multitude of mental processes that escape your awareness, builds this amazingly well in dreams, in conjuction with your own memories. A great example of this "genuine inspiration":

[BjStrife]

Thanks, Zoth, that was a great reply. The idea that a DC can give you a lot of information regarding yourself, which you may not be aware of, but it is stored in your subconscious, is quite common, as far as I know, but it's still a theory for me, so I wouldn't know. I never had a chance to try this myself, because I didn't get that far with lucid dreaming, to be able to conjure a DC and talk to him in this manner. I saw numerous people claiming that LDing helps with their personal development due to getting some kind of advice about their lives from their dreams. My idea was that if this worked, then why would it not be possible to gain information about your DNA, since it's the basic element of our bodies, therefore it should influence your subconscious in some way. I guess I'll need more experience with DCs to really figure out if they can give you any useful information at all.

[EbbTide000]

BjStrife. Thank you for opening this Thread Brilliant Youtube Zoth I don't agree with Zoth, BjStrife But I can't Lucid Dream. This thread has given me a reason to put some effort into Lucid Dreaming to prove Zoth wrong. I believe the Matrix IS an Intelligent Being independent of me (my waking and dreaming mind). I get that belief from mind-blowing outer-world (waking life) synchronicities. Like the sharks at the begining of this thread. *** http://www.dreamviews.com/beyond-dre...-reloaded.html ***(1,771 views) Also, I bought a little while mouse and named him Buck-Hello because he was a boy and I used to say Hello to him a lot. I bought him to try and Share dream with him. And I did. Here is that amazing thread of mine. *** http://www.dreamviews.com/beyond-dre...275-mouse.html ***18/901 views Post 12 Has this funny Youtube in it: **** https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wFM...e_gdata_player ***(0:26) 215, 571 views Hahaha-hehehe remember the mind-blowing synchos with the sharks swimming ashore onto my Sacred Beach (Henley Beach here in Adelaide) and then me share dreaming with Buckelo. Then Mort the "mouse" Lemur gets chased (on shore) by big shark. You wouldn't dream about it. There IS an Intelligent Entity playing with us dreamers, Zoth.

[BjStrife]

Hi havago, I believe the Matrix IS an Intelligent Being independent of me (my waking and dreaming mind). if by the "Matrix" you mean the world we live in (or rather, the world our physical bodies reside in), then I agree that the world around us could be considered a sentient and intelligent (to a certain degree) entity. I've always been amazed how flawless nature can be, how everything has it's purpose and is far more advanced than we can even think of (like the aforementioned DNA, our brains, etc). Isn't that a beautiful analogy to the development of humankind? And since "mother nature" (I don't really like to describe this as a "god", but some people might incline to that) had a few billion years more to develop, I'd say it's accurate to consider it, as you say, intelligent. There IS an Intelligent Entity playing with us dreamers, Zoth. This, on the other hand, would probably mean that everything, including shared dreams, OBEs and so on, is real, which I'm not really sure of.

[Zoth]

This thread has given me a reason to put some effort into Lucid Dreaming to prove Zoth wrong. I believe the Matrix IS an Intelligent Being independent of me (my waking and dreaming mind). I get that belief from mind-blowing outer-world (waking life) synchronicities. Coincidentally, Havago helps me make my point. As you can see BjStrife, we can grab all these theories that might even be true (we can't be sure), but by testing this via lucid dreaming is impossible. If Havago has a lucid dream in which an identity says there's a coin behind the closet in the living room, and Havago wakes up and finds this to be true, she will most likely be victim of confirmation bias, because she already believes that there is an intelligent entity influencing our dreams. Havago might as well be right, but since she is unable to confirm this entity (or make any supported set of predictions based on it), we can't never say exactly what's going on. A much more likely scenario would be that she one day notice the coin, but never gave it a thought. The idea that a DC can give you a lot of information regarding yourself, which you may not be aware of, but it is stored in your subconscious, is quite common, as far as I know, but it's still a theory for me, so I wouldn't know. Luckily, even a person without any lucid dreaming experiences can clarify this We (as lucid dreamers) tend to commonly revolve around concepts like "dream guide: expression of your subconscious" or "Dream Character", but the truth is, there is no entity (at least, inside our brain) creating our dreams but ourselves. When we mention the word subconscious (which should be more like "unconscious") we are referring to processing of information that is outside the individual's awareness. Take for example when you're in a party: you can't pay attention to everyone, so you end up speaking with a person, but suddenly you hear someone saying your name. What happened? The answer is that you were perceiving all the information in the room, but since doing so would be a tremendous use of resources, your brain unconsciously processes all that sensory input. When it deems something relevant, like your name (which might be a sign that you're being called, or that information of interest is being received), it dips that information into your consciousness. Other example is driving: if you had to do everything in a conscious manner - using both feet, looking in front, hands on the wheel, look for cars, signs, etc etc, you would likely go insane after a few minutes of driving, and most likely have an accident. Thus, once you get some level of automaticity, driving seems like "driving a bike", so natural that you don't even need to think about it. I saw numerous people claiming that LDing helps with their personal development due to getting some kind of advice about their lives from their dreams. Yes it works (quite nicely most of the time). At the same time, a bit of denial takes place. For example, people that don't share Havago's beliefs can still dream about a dead relative and experience great psychology effects. This occurs just as easily with people that hear voices: many of them actually develop emotional relationships with their voices, and take offense if someone tells them they are not real. They know (well, some of them ) it's their own voice, but that particular denial grants them the ability to have a close friend always around. Cotard's syndrom's patients are even worse. Just because it's a dream, and you're talking with a mental model created by yourself (subconsciously derived from memories/fears/worries/etc), doesn't mean it doesn't feel (or is) real. Honestly, sometimes I feel like a child when I talk to some dream characters: after all, it was a dream character that gave me my first dream control lesson ^^ It's because of concepts like this that I find neuroscience so fascinating: we're already believing in irrational things, like hallucinations, and dreams, and experiences, etc etc, but once we stop to realize that our brain is doing so much more than just reading the lines of this text, it becomes apparent that much of what we perceive is actually a product of ourselves and not really the outside reality Also, I bought a little while mouse and named him Buck-Hello because he was a boy and I used to say Hello to him a lot. I bought him to try and Share dream with him. And I did. We can never agree or disagree with this statement because we weren't there to confirm the facts (or determine how on earth did your mouse confirmed he had dreamed about you 0o). This, on the other hand, would probably mean that everything, including shared dreams, OBEs and so on, is real, which I'm not really sure of. Well, OBEs are indeed real (we can even induce them in the laboratory). We can even go further with objects like the "God's Helmet". I'd pay to try one

[dutchraptor]

The DC can answer anything based on what the dreamer wants to hear, fears to hear, expects to hear, or what the guy in that mental health tv program said 2 years ago when the person was distracted looking for a lost earring under the couch. Your "subconscious", not as an identity, but as multitude of mental processes that escape your awareness, builds this amazingly well in dreams, in conjuction with your own memories. A great example of this "genuine inspiration": Brilliantly said, damn I wish I could compose a sentence that well. The only reason I know the word Pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis is thanks to the simpsons

[EbbTide000]

The Real god was absent, from the big band till the universe cooled to Absolute Zero. He came into being when matter ceased resisting energy (at Absolute Zero) At that moment he became instantly merged with all matter through out "all time" and became the Eternal Soul of the Universe. We are all one in him. So it is he who responds when we ask a dream character a question. Here is Post 12 of my thread called " There is something I am Busting to convey. Revery is that Thing" Oh, I posted it at*12:51 AM On 12-06-2013 (6-December-2013) ******** Just stalked Waking Nomad His profile said he was in dv's Youtube section.I poked it and looked at first youtube and it was this little Gem :*** https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Q6a...e_gdata_player ***(7:48) This is the dv page Waking Nomad was viewing just now: *** Media - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views *** This Youtube confirms what this thread is about (me thinks). That deep revery is the thing. ******* Here is the Last Walz by Engleburt Humperdink (from the guys Lucid Dream. *** https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBie...e_gdata_player *** The "sharks" happened when someone played a dream game with me. So please click on my signature and play WakingNomad's Remote Viewing Experiment.

[EbbTide000]

Sorry The link to that guys advanced Lucid Dream, broke. Go to Post 12 of this thread: *** http://www.dreamviews.com/beyond-dre...ery-thing.html ***( Here is Steven Berlin Yoitube... direct: *** https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Q6a...e_gdata_player ***(7:48) It is titled: Lucid Dreaming #5 - Beloved Lover (Transcendence) By Stephen Berlin Apr 9, 2008 4,559 views The Cosmic Dance.

[BjStrife]

Coincidentally, Havago helps me make my point. As you can see BjStrife, we can grab all these theories that might even be true (we can't be sure), but by testing this via lucid dreaming is impossible. If Havago has a lucid dream in which an identity says there's a coin behind the closet in the living room, and Havago wakes up and finds this to be true, she will most likely be victim of confirmation bias, because she already believes that there is an intelligent entity influencing our dreams. Havago might as well be right, but since she is unable to confirm this entity (or make any supported set of predictions based on it), we can't never say exactly what's going on. A much more likely scenario would be that she one day notice the coin, but never gave it a thought. Basically, this means: There might be a possibility that we can get real information from a DC/DG, but it's very likely that our mind is just telling us what we want to hear. Therefore, even if it was possible, we posed the question and recieved genuine information about the subject, we would still not accept it as valid, because it's simply unlikely. Sometimes, logic is just.. harmful Well, OBEs are indeed real (we can even induce them in the laboratory). We can even go further with objects like the "God's Helmet". I'd pay to try one Do you have any experience with Astral Projection or OBEs? I've been trying that for a few years without much success. My bet is on OBE just being a form of WILD.