Lucid dreaming skill levels

I've though I could divide lucid dreaming skill into 5 categories to better track my progress...


Apprentice - You learn information about lucid dreaming, doing casual dream journaling, improving your dream recall, sometimes you manage to get lucid

Journeyman - You are familiar with induction techniques and you know how to use them, dream journaling and recall is your every day bread, you manage to get lucid at least ~2 times per week

Expert - You've read everything about lucid dreaming, you know how to use your knowledge, dream control is better and better, you recall dreams almost after every rem phase, go lucid at least ~5 times per week,

Artisan - You manage to get lucid almost every day and now you working on dream control improvement - teleportation, make things appear in your direct view and so on... lucid dreaming day practice is life habit and induction is easy to conduce

Master - You are able to go lucid every rem phase, full control of your dreams, every dream is recalled



This is what just come to my mind, your ideas are welcome!

An interesting concept. However, I noticed that the requirements you attach to the higher 'ranks' are already very very advanced. It's a decent system, but if you are going to use it to track your own progress I suggest you emphasize the lower few ranks a bit more.

Unless you see yourself as a quite advanced dreamer already try to make a few more subdivisions like an even lower rank for those who have yet to get lucid dreams and so forth, seeing as lucid dreaming at LEAST five times a week is already quite a feat.

Perhaps a nice idea to self motivate, but I hope it doesn't confuse people who just start with this thing. As far as dream control is concerned, I've seen newbies with only few lds do phenomenal things. People are encouraged to polish their control skills at any level. Also, recall and lucid dreams do not necessarily increase linearly together. So, you may have a decent recall and still get lucid very frequently. Finally, ld length is something to think about too.

At any rate if this system motivates you to do better, go for it. I find periodically starting with the basics all over again a good idea no matter what level we think we are :P.

I agree with NyxCC - doesn't quite correspond to people's experiences.
Especially since people with hardly any LDs can display very good dream-control already, once they are there.
Then there are people with hundreds of LDs - maybe starting from childhood - who didn't read everything - or even a lot - about LDing.
And recall is very much connected - but not as stringently as you depict it.
Nice effort, though! :)

Yes that's true, I learned my friend how to lucid dream and he managed to flying fast and going through the wall in the first lucid dream. This means that there are three skills involved - Lucid dreaming induction, Dream control and Dream recall closely related to each other.

So you'd have to grade each of the skills individually, having an apprentice-master rank for each area? That would be more accurate?

i am definitely an apprentice.

*Edited* According to the discussion below, there are three skills involved which must be categorized separately, but they are closely affecting each other.

Lucid dreaming induction
You are able to use an induction method with consistent resuls

Apprentice - you manage to go lucid ~3 times per month
Journeyman - ~2 times per week
Expert - ~5 times per week
Artisan - ~1 times per day
Master - ~ 1 times per rem

Dream recall

Apprentice - ~3 dreams/f per week
Journeyman - ~1 dream/f per night
Expert - ~3 full dreams per night
Artisan - ~5 full dreams per night
Master - Every dream full recalled

Dream control

Apprentice - Do an successful Reality Check, Interact with a Dream Character, Eat Something
Journeyman - Successfully stabilize the dream, Dream anchoring, Flying, Telekinesis, Super Strength, Super Speed, Basic Summoning, Gain Invulnerability, Object/DC changing, Push your hand through an solid object, Partial Transformation
Expert - Teleport, Element Manipulation, Fully move through big solid object, Advanced Flying
Artisan - Advanced Summoning, Time Control, Full Transformation
Master - You control every chosen aspect of your dreaming mind, you can do anything you want with no obstacles

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Originally Posted by anotherdreamer

So you'd have to grade each of the skills individually, having an apprentice-master rank for each area? That would be more accurate?

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I think so...

I have dream recall about once a month (less than apprentice?) I am capable of at least one dream recall a night (journeyman?), I can sometimes do dream stabilization, can usually do flying, and my latest LD I fully moved through a solid window and did superspeed. But most of my LDs are still too short. I am familiar with most theory.

I think the number of lucids you assigned to each level is not accurate. I think I am no longer just an apprentice but I LD only once or at times twice a month.

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Originally Posted by JoannaB

I have dream recall about once a month (less than apprentice?) I am capable of at least one dream recall a night (journeyman?), I can sometimes do dream stabilization, can usually do flying, and my latest LD I fully moved through a solid window and did superspeed. But most of my LDs are still too short. I am familiar with most theory.

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Yes that's why I do it separately, you can be master dream recaller and apprentice lucid dreamer...

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I think the number of lucids you assigned to each level is not accurate. I think I am no longer just an apprentice but I LD only once or at times twice a month.

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If you would play a guitar ~2 times per month for ~5 minutes, would you be more than apprentice?

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Originally Posted by Nfri

Yes that's why I do it separately, you can be master dream recaller and apprentice lucid dreamer...



If you would play a guitar ~2 times per month for ~5 minutes, would you be more than apprentice?

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There is a difference between performing guitar and practicing guitar, just as there's a difference in practicing and achieving lucid dreaming. Steady practice can show effects in burst of improvement of ability. But dreaming is so different from waking activities that most analogies just don't hold.

For instance: can you get better at playing guitar just by thoroughly and deeply believing that you can?

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Originally Posted by FryingMan

There is a difference between performing guitar and practicing guitar, just as there's a difference in practicing and achieving lucid dreaming. Steady practice can show effects in burst of improvement of ability. But dreaming is so different from waking activities that most analogies just don't hold.

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Well I don't see much difference between ''waking skills'' and lucid dreaming induction skills.... (except dream control skill)

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For instance: can you get better at playing guitar just by thoroughly and deeply believing that you can?

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Can you get better at inducing lucid dreams just by thoroughly and deeply believing that you can? I think no... it's good to believe, but doesn't do much alone - same as the quitar skill. (I'm talking about lucid dreaming induction skill, not dream control skill)

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Originally Posted by Nfri

Well I don't see much difference between ''waking skills'' and lucid dreaming induction skills.... (except dream control skill)



Can you get better at inducing lucid dreams just by thoroughly and deeply believing that you can? I think no... it's good to believe, but doesn't do much alone - same as the quitar skill. (I'm talking about lucid dreaming induction skill, not dream control skill)

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Yes, I believe so. And the flip side is true as well: if you have a negative attitude, if you think you *can't* lucid dream, then you very likely will not.

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Originally Posted by Nfri

Lucid dreaming induction
You are able to use an induction method with consistent resuls

Apprentice - you manage to go lucid ~3 times per month
Journeyman - ~2 times per week
Expert - ~5 times per week
Artisan - ~1 times per day
Master - ~ 1 times per rem

Dream recall

Apprentice - ~3 dreams/f per week
Journeyman - ~1 dream/f per night
Expert - ~3 full dreams per night
Artisan - ~5 full dreams per night
Master - Every dream full recalled

Dream control

Apprentice - Do an successful Reality Check, Interact with a Dream Character, Eat Something
Journeyman - Successfully stabilize the dream, Dream anchoring, Flying, Telekinesis, Super Strength, Super Speed, Basic Summoning, Gain Invulnerability, Object/DC changing, Push your hand through an solid object, Partial Transformation
Expert - Teleport, Element Manipulation, Fully move through big solid object, Advanced Flying
Artisan - Advanced Summoning, Time Control, Full Transformation
Master - You control every chosen aspect of your dreaming mind, you can do anything you want with no obstacles

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So, I guess that we should be called something like Recaller, Controller, and Inductor/Inductress? Just an idea. :D


About the topic, I like the idea, but I disagree a bit about the Dream Control part :happyface:

The thing is that I'm an Expert Recaller, and not even an Apprentice Inductor, meaning I may have 2 micro-lucids in one week, but then 1-2 months of nothing. And even with that, and being all my LDs really short, non-stable, blurry.... the couple of times I was able to stabilize (even if I woke up seconds later), I could do things that, based on this list, only an Expert Controller could do... go through wall, summon an object before my eyes, change it...

Anyway this last part it's hard to categorize, as there are things that you can do while others you can't... In any case I will have to note them on my "to-do" so I can eventually train and test if I'm able to do them when I have the chance...

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Originally Posted by Irreo

So, I guess that we should be called something like Recaller, Controller, and Inductor/Inductress? Just an idea. :D

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great idea :) lucid inductor= Linductor :>

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About the topic, I like the idea, but I disagree a bit about the Dream Control part :happyface:

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Yeah, the dream control part is quite subjective, but I meant you can do these tasks consistenly without failing...

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the couple of times I was able to stabilize (even if I woke up seconds later)

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Stabilization should prolong your dream and not to ends it :) That wasn't really a great stabilization imho :P

Nfri, the problem I have with this approach is that it is very discouraging to some of us who have been struggling for a long time and have not gotten to apprentice level yet if you define apprentice level as 3 LDs a month. I actually have been feeling like I had quite an ackomplishment for myself to have had four lucid dreams in the last two months which for me is a huge improvement and I have been working hard to achieve it. I understand that for some people it does not take a year of effort to get to this level, heck, when I was 19 I know I could with much less efford LD much more frequently, but now I am struggling hard and I need to be able to count every accomplishment to keep motivated, because if I dismiss what I have thus far as nothing yet, and if I say that the fact that I have in the past two months had almost as many LDs as in all of the previous year is nothing special, then what's the point anyway. @$!!!!

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Originally Posted by JoannaB

Nfri, the problem I have with this approach is that it is very discouraging to some of us who have been struggling for a long time and have not gotten to apprentice level yet if you define apprentice level as 3 LDs a month. I actually have been feeling like I had quite an ackomplishment for myself to have had four lucid dreams in the last two months which for me is a huge improvement and I have been working hard to achieve it. I understand that for some people it does not take a year of effort to get to this level, heck, when I was 19 I know I could with much less efford LD much more frequently, but now I am struggling hard and I need to be able to count every accomplishment to keep motivated, because if I dismiss what I have thus far as nothing yet, and if I say that the fact that I have in the past two months had almost as many LDs as in all of the previous year is nothing special, then what's the point anyway. @$!!!!

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Oh gosh, to discourage you is the last thing that I would want! I know you are realy hardworking oneironaut, so take this thread just as my subjective bloated view to my dreamed LD progress.

By the way I've dedicated to lucid dreaming lots, lots lots of time too and I can evaluate myself as a journeyman :/ but sometimes to see my slow progression makes me valorize my methods and open my mind to new aproaches with new boost of motivation involved. :)

Do we have members of the bored that are considerd masters?

I don't like the titles. I prefer to describe abilities. Here is a short list I started to outline my own experiences:

Dream Proficiency

1. Dream recall

2. Awakening in dream

3. Lucid Dreaming

4. Lucid dreaming while awake in during meditation

5. Using lucid powers while awake to alter awake experience

6. Keeping a dream going after awakening

7. Stepping directly into a dream from awakeness

8. Going back to a dream after awakening

9. Intentionally contacting a differentially conscious being

10. Carry on a conscious communication with a differentially conscious person.

11. Carry on repeat conversations with same person


JJ

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Originally Posted by Nfri

I've though I could divide lucid dreaming skill into 5 categories to better track my progress...


Apprentice - You learn information about lucid dreaming, doing casual dream journaling, improving your dream recall, sometimes you manage to get lucid

Journeyman - You are familiar with induction techniques and you know how to use them, dream journaling and recall is your every day bread, you manage to get lucid at least ~2 times per week

Expert - You've read everything about lucid dreaming, you know how to use your knowledge, dream control is better and better, you recall dreams almost after every rem phase, go lucid at least ~5 times per week,

Artisan - You manage to get lucid almost every day and now you working on dream control improvement - teleportation, make things appear in your direct view and so on... lucid dreaming day practice is life habit and induction is easy to conduce

Master - You are able to go lucid every rem phase, full control of your dreams, every dream is recalled



This is what just come to my mind, your ideas are welcome!

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