How long do i have to wait...

So, I just lied in my bed without moving my body for about 1.5 hours... I have to say, I can only not move my body for so long before becoming so uncomfortable that I cannot stand it and am forced to move. So, I got the usual: feeling of a lead blanked, some tingling, etc. A few new things happened this time however: I reached a point where I started to see and hear things and this made me think that I was heading into a dream. It didn't get me anywhere. While that was happening, my heartbeat felt so strong it was scary... I told myself not to worry, but when you can feel the blood rushing through your neck like that.. its .. well.. tense. Anyway, after that it was the normal again. Then, I reached a point where it felt like my head was turning to the right (not physically though..) and as my head slowly went to the right, it felt as though the right part of my head (my ear mostly) was "dissolving" into my pillow. I could hear what sounded like fizzing.. like pop rocks :D (I love those...). It was very strange... I also thought this was a good sign but again it got me nowhere. Soon after, I had to choose between dying of discomfort and opening my eyes and moving.. so.. I admit, I messed it up. But I got farther than ever before too.

I haven't been actively trying to LD, I just got back into it... but this time I am determined. By the end of my summer vacation, I will have had my first real lucid dream.
This battle may be lost, but the war is far from over.

One thing to note: the conditions for an LD during this "experiment" were less than optimal. But I still made progress.. as far as getting closer to LD.
Let me know what you guys think about this. How long should I lie there before I give up?

Maybe you are thinking too much? Just try relaxing and allowing your thoughts to either relax and stop or just do their thing. Don't you think--just let the thoughts think. Observe them or observe something else, but maybe stop fusing with your thoughts. So next time your head is dissolving, don't think, "Oh, my head is dissolving! Progress!" Just observe it, like you were observing your hand or some other mundane object. I rest my awareness on body and breath, which has worked for induction a few times.

As for relaxing and not moving, there are yogic moves for this--naukasana and shavasana--that you can use to relax. They get me to a point where I don't even want to move, but am still alert. Look them up and try them out. Colloquially known as "boat pose" and "corpse pose." Good luck!

As for how long you lie there, lie there as long as you like. The worst that will happen is that you'll fall asleep (oops!) or not fall asleep (oops!). :) If you have optimal amount of time set up for the WILD, then not falling asleep for a bit shouldn't be a big deal.

I believe that part of your approach when trying to Lucid dream is off. The key to your method is relaxation, and the best thing for you to do when trying is to just relax completly. Its sounds like youre getting the hang of it considering you got really far, but you need to relax more. Most of the time youre heart should be beating really slow unless youre attempting astral projection. But unless youre doing that try to keep your heart rate as low as possible- its a big part of getting in to the dream world. Also, when you start getting those signs and you start progressing in your attempt, just relax- dont get excited or anything. Dont respond to it, just let it happen. I know youre thinking, "Thats impossible" but its not, trust me i once thought that and with a little practice and effort it becomes possible. Plus supressing strong emotions of excitement and such are necessary in order to stay in a lucid dream, but dont worry its really easy, you just need to put in the effort. This may seems like alot but the only two points im trying to get across are- pure relaxation, and supressing your emotions during attempts. Hope this made sense. Peace

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Originally Posted by ThreeCat

Maybe you are thinking too much? Just try relaxing and allowing your thoughts to either relax and stop or just do their thing. Don't you think--just let the thoughts think. Observe them or observe something else, but maybe stop fusing with your thoughts. So next time your head is dissolving, don't think, "Oh, my head is dissolving! Progress!" Just observe it, like you were observing your hand or some other mundane object. I rest my awareness on body and breath, which has worked for induction a few times.

As for relaxing and not moving, there are yogic moves for this--naukasana and shavasana--that you can use to relax. They get me to a point where I don't even want to move, but am still alert. Look them up and try them out. Colloquially known as "boat pose" and "corpse pose." Good luck!

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I hope practice and persistence will get me there...
You're right about the thought though, I assume anyone can relate when I say that I have my "voice" in my head (you know what i mean) and sometimes I just cant shut it up... when I can shut it up, its almost as if I forget to think about it.. idk. Rather strange...

Let me ask this, is trying for 1.5 hours before giving up and just going to bed normally .. giving up too early? Like I said, conditions are not optimal but.. plausible I suppose.

And Exactly what Three cat said- youre probably thinking too much. Thats a killer for lucid dreams. You can still think of course but dont overthink- that will completly prevent you from falling asleep and/or entering the dream world. You dont have to completly empty your mind but just dont over think. And by the way- lie there as long as you want, everyone is different in how long it takes them- but next time just know that your effort is only helping you get closer

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Originally Posted by OneUpBoy71

I believe that part of your approach when trying to Lucid dream is off. The key to your method is relaxation, and the best thing for you to do when trying is to just relax completly. Its sounds like youre getting the hang of it considering you got really far, but you need to relax more. Most of the time youre heart should be beating really slow unless youre attempting astral projection. But unless youre doing that try to keep your heart rate as low as possible- its a big part of getting in to the dream world. Also, when you start getting those signs and you start progressing in your attempt, just relax- dont get excited or anything. Dont respond to it, just let it happen. I know youre thinking, "Thats impossible" but its not, trust me i once thought that and with a little practice and effort it becomes possible. Plus supressing strong emotions of excitement and such are necessary in order to stay in a lucid dream, but dont worry its really easy, you just need to put in the effort. This may seems like alot but the only two points im trying to get across are- pure relaxation, and supressing your emotions during attempts. Hope this made sense. Peace

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Please excuse my double reply, I got ninja'd.

Yeah, I suppose that is probably the biggest issue as of now... I do find it rather difficult to keep my heart rate and breathing down. Not my rate of breathing, but the amount. Not sure if that matters much, but the heart rate thing.. yes.

At one point, I remember the feeling of my beating heart, my breathing, and even my hearing got "dimmer"... I assume that was me falling to sleep yes? Which is what I was going for?

I suppose this is just a matter of practice and persistence...

Yes exactly you were falling asleep. When you start falling asleep your outer senses will fade in that sense and you will start paying attention effortlessly to your mind and thats how your dreams start. And yes its all practice and effort. But from here on, Believe in yourself. It will help you achieve your goal WAY faster than you think. People say "dont have expectations" but in a sense you need them. But more specifically the positive expectations to keep you motivated. Those will also help tremendously and depending on how much you believe in yourself it can affect how often you lucid dream, how long you lucid dream, and everything else. It really is crazy what power "Believing in yourself" has. It can change everything

You should check out those WILD Guides:
http://www.dreamviews.com/wake-initi...ild-guide.html
http://www.dreamviews.com/wake-initi...-key-wild.html

They are best ones i readed out there :D

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Originally Posted by sci4me

I hope practice and persistence will get me there...
You're right about the thought though, I assume anyone can relate when I say that I have my "voice" in my head (you know what i mean) and sometimes I just cant shut it up... when I can shut it up, its almost as if I forget to think about it.. idk. Rather strange...

Let me ask this, is trying for 1.5 hours before giving up and just going to bed normally .. giving up too early? Like I said, conditions are not optimal but.. plausible I suppose.

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You might try sitting quietly during the day for 10-20 minutes. Meditation seems to be both loved and not loved at Dreamviews, but I personally think it is helpful. If your mind is racing, or playing a soundtrack, it means it's wound up, and you will probably find WILD difficult. Try doing some relaxation exercises, and rest your awareness on your breath. Lots of good meditation books out there. I started out with "Mindfulness in Plain English" Bhante G. Don't need to be a Buddhist to dig meditation.

Also I am wondering about your heart racing--is this because you are excited or nervous? If so, don't be. It either will or will not happen. Nothing special going on here; just falling asleep, same as you do every night, except maybe tonight you'll be awake for it? Hmm. That's interesting. :) Try not to make it more than it is :)

1.5 hours sounds like a good while to wait. Try to enjoy that quiet time. Just imagine--you have the luxury to lie in bed motionless for 1.5 hours, alone with no thoughts, or the occasional thought that comes up then dissolves. You can turn that time into a meditation.

I think you will do well. Good luck. :)

Seems your timing was off, 1.5 hours is way too long to have to wait. If you don't get into a dream within 20 minutes then just work on falling asleep, maybe set an alarm to wake you up in an hour to try again.

There's nothing wrong with the beating heart phenomenon, I've had that before quite a bit, I do agree you might be thinking too much though. I find that clearing your mind and just observing the back of your eyelids works best (for me anyway). Once you start thinking you either become too engaged in the thoughts and can't fall asleep or you lose consciousness.

So lie down and begin to observe the darkness, don't focus on anything in particular. If you find yourself thinking, gently go back to observing, notice how the darkness behind your eyelids isn't completely dark, it almost seems like things are moving around and there are bits of colour. If you start seeing images in your mind's eye, gently go back to observing the darkness, images in your minds eye are the same as thoughts; this is daydreaming not HI.

When you start seeing images within the darkness behind your eyelids observe those, they should be a lot more clear and vivid than just your "normal" imagination and also outside of your control, don't try to change them, just observe.

If you do this correctly and your timing isn't bad (you're within your REM period) you will feel that body numbs up and you'll find yourself in a dream very quickly, alternatively you might go through a bit of scary HI and sounds, but don't count on it. Note that the dream might be about you lying there with your eyes closed, in which case just see through your eyelids and if you can do that vividly then you're in a dream and it's time to get up and have fun. =]

Wow! Thank you all for being so helpful! It is great to see members helping each other. Great job guys.

I will chime in, just a bit. First, let's remember to make sure the OP knows about WBTB.

SCI4ME, WBTB means getting up after say 5-6 hours and waking up a bit and then trying to do WILD. Due to sleep cycles this is the best time for it to work.

Now let's make it very clear that falling asleep is required. Simply laying still is not right.

From a thread MisakaMikoto listed here is a useful quote:

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Originally Posted by sivason

Ok, it is fine to ask, as we use terms specific to the hobby. The term is used in WILD attempts. You may need to understand WILD first. Wake Induced Lucid Dream is the results of putting yourself into a trance like state. You create a strange middle ground between wake and sleep. The goal is to trick the body into falling asleep, without the mind falling asleep. If you can do it (not easy) then you wait through the stages of sleep until you get to a point where you can dream. As you are aware it will be a LD.

Anchor: You will get drifty and spaced out on a serious level while trying this. It is not very natural and you go through states that seem drug induced and confusing. An anchor is something you use (can be any trick) to keep you from getting so spaced out or caught up in the "high" that you forget what you are doing and fall into true sleep.
The case mention above of counting is one I use. By counting until I space off, I can tell if I am spacing off too much. I count to say 20 and space off for a second, so I go back to 1, soon I space off by the time I reach 8 or 9. If however, I space off and it takes me a moment to remember I need to count, then I know I am getting to far gone and can take a moment to wake my mind up a bit. You do not want to be fully aware, so reviewing your school work would be a bad thing. An anchor allows you to know if you space off to much, but should not be grueling and mind engaging.

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Finally, If you have reached a point where you are seeing and feeling strange things, you should move into a comfortable position and allow sleep to take you. You then need to stay aware during the sudden shift to comfortable sleep.

Well, the reason can be very simple... if you do everything right and relax but nothing happens it simply means you're not into an REM-cycle. For me afternoon naps have worked best, giving me hallucinations after 20 minutes or so.

I have had sleep problems for as long as i can remember, spending several hours in bed before actually managing to sleep. It is not because i'm having bad thoughts or a sleeping disorder, i simply think too much and my brain will not relax. This haven't affected my ability to enter the REM stage though and i still dream every single night.

Now, WILD'ing might seem like an impossible thing to someone like me (and maybe you if we're as similar as i think), but i am determined to make it and have gotten far on the road. I haven't actually been able to lucid dream with the WILD method yet, but that is just because i fall asleep every single time. So how do i get my body and mind so relaxed when i'm an overthinkerer? It's actually fairly simple; Focus on something. In the first WILD tutorial i read i remember that the author told me to focus on the different parts of my body. This way i don't let my mind wander and it (suprisingly) quickly starts to relax, causing me to "space off" as Sivason describes it.

Combine this with an anchor and maybe it'll help, good luck!

WILD is impossible for me until i fix my neck, until then i will master the DILD!