Suppress dreaming/REM sleep while on piracetam

Since starting to take piracetam, I have begun having extremely vivid, sometimes disturbing dreams that I still remember long after (which is something I'm extremely new to, because I was on SSRIs for years and during that time I rarely, if ever, remembered dreams).

I feel like I may be on the edge of lucidity even, but this is something that I honestly don't want. A whole night of dreaming I think really negatively impacts my sleep and I felt somewhat fatigued in the morning after.

This forum is the only place I feel like I can turn to to learn how I can control this. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against lucid dreaming (I've even had some interest in it), but if and until I decide to pursue lucid dreaming, I want to be able to get a good nights' sleep without having these dreams throughout it because some of them are quite distressing.

I like taking piracetam because when I'm awake I generally feel like I have a much better mood, improved vision, and clearer thinking.

So here's my question: If I decide to continue taking piracetam, is there anything I can do to suppress my REM sleep in favor of a more deep sleep? I don't want to take anything with a long half-life, just something that will mostly last only while I'm asleep (mirtazapine gives me profound physical fatigue the next day so this won't work).

Can you guys give me any advice? :(

I'll list some supplement ideas but first I'll suggest this: If you're willing to get used to the idea, it can actually be quite pleasant to wake multiple times after each dream cycle and then fall back to sleep. You get to experience the cozy sleepy feeling of drifting off to sleep several times a night instead of once. I think much of the disturbance to sleep quality comes from thinking it's unnatural and resisting it. So you just need to adjust your attitude toward it. Maybe that route is not your preference, but as you're trying other things you'll probably still experience some of the midnight awakenings, so perhaps take those opportunities to make the most of it.

You could try diphenhydramine (Benadryl), melatonin, magnesium, and picamilon. All non-prescription, generally safe, and I think affordable. You can try them separately, all together, or any combination. You would take picamilon throughout the day with the piracetam and the others about 30-60 minutes before sleep. I'd start with the recommended doses. That combo should give you a pretty deep sleep for about 4-5 hours. What happens in the remaining 3-4 hours of the night is where things vary. You might cruise through sleep until the morning. Or you might experience REM rebound, causing fewer but stronger dream periods later. Or you might have something in between, more muted dreams that may or may not disturb your sleep.

Diphenhydramine is a good knockout but can make me somewhat drowsy the next morning. Tolerance also builds quickly so I wouldn't take it every day. Maybe once or twice a week. I don't take it unless I'm already quite sleepy. If I take it while still alert, it gives me disturbed and confused thoughts. Don't take it in the middle of the night as that will surely make you drowsy the next day.

Melatonin can be taken every day. It might cause REM rebound more than the others. The recommended dosing for melatonin is notoriously varied. Many say 0.5mg but the tablets you find in stores are often 3mg or 5mg. If you're willing to experiment with the dose, you might find a sweet spot. This one also, don't try in the middle of the night.

Magnesium is essential and you can take it everyday. I find that it mellows out my nerves when going to sleep and waking up, making it less of a jolt. If you take too much you'll find that it has an unpleasant laxative effect, but otherwise no side effects of drowsiness or REM rebound.

I really like picamilon. You can take it every day. Some recommend taking a few days off per week but I've had no trouble with it every day. I don't take any racetams but I've heard it's common to combine with picamilon to ease any jitters or overly-intense focus throughout the day. I definitely dream less while on it and it doesn't cause drowsiness or REM rebound.

Whatever you try, timing will be important. If you can move your stimulant doses to earlier in the day, it will give them time to wear off by night time. Consider if you're taking anything else throughout the day. For example, taking B or C vitamins late in the day might have a stimulating effect on dreaming. Caffeine and energy drinks should be an obvious red flag. Exercise, sugar, and high glycemic index foods late in the day can also have a stimulating effect.

Actually from what i know piractem reduces rem sleep and makes you sleep shorter waking up more refreshed and suppress lucid dreaming , personally i was on prozac for a while and stopped it and started piractem and my sleep length has drastically decreased and my dreams also did, but if you asking for something that really suppress rem it would be MELATONIN WITH NO DOUBT actually melatonin suppress rem soo good that after 4 hours of pure non rem it has an effect called rebound rem (after melatonin is eliminated rem returns on steroids) if you want 8 hours of non rem sleep , take 1 mg melatonin before you sleep and 1 mg after you sleep for 4 hours .

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Originally Posted by lucidusorbis

Actually from what i know piractem reduces rem sleep and makes you sleep shorter waking up more refreshed and suppress lucid dreaming , personally i was on prozac for a while and stopped it and started piractem and my sleep length has drastically decreased and my dreams also did, but if you asking for something that really suppress rem it would be MELATONIN WITH NO DOUBT actually melatonin suppress rem soo good that after 4 hours of pure non rem it has an effect called rebound rem (after melatonin is eliminated rem returns on steroids) if you want 8 hours of non rem sleep , take 1 mg melatonin before you sleep and 1 mg after you sleep for 4 hours .

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Most reports and even some studies (such as Influence of vincamine and piracetam on sleep--waking pattern of the cat) seem to show that Piracetam increase REM sleep.

Most anecdotal reports by people who have used piracetam seem to conclude that piracetam can—and does—cause more vivid dreams, and in my case it enhanced memory of the dreams as well. I want to avoid this, for now.

I'm still trying to piece some things together. The Vitamin C thing is interesting, because I've been drinking quite a bit of pure orange juice lately and even taking some of those Halls Defense Vitamin C drops (never an abundance though. Could vitamin C be the culprit? I'm so confused at this point :(

Bump

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Originally Posted by lucidusorbis

Actually from what i know piractem reduces rem sleep and makes you sleep shorter waking up more refreshed and suppress lucid dreaming

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This is what Thomas Yuschak says in his book, so for a long time I also assumed this was true. Then one night, feeling experimental, I tried piracetam during a WBTB and entered a WILD that was unusually vivid and clear. Piracetam doesn't give me LDs every time (I've yet to find a technique/supplement with a near-perfect success rate) but it definitely doesn't suppress my ability to dream or get lucid and often seems to encourage it. I was intrigued to discover in this thread that other people have had this experience with piracetam as well.

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Originally Posted by Verre

This is what Thomas Yuschak says in his book, so for a long time I also assumed this was true. Then one night, feeling experimental, I tried piracetam during a WBTB and entered a WILD that was unusually vivid and clear. Piracetam doesn't give me LDs every time (I've yet to find a technique/supplement with a near-perfect success rate) but it definitely doesn't suppress my ability to dream or get lucid and often seems to encourage it. I was intrigued to discover in this thread that other people have had this experience with piracetam as well.

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I think acute administration of priactem during the second half of sleep would favor lucid dreaming since it increases brain activity in a similar way to most stimulants would work , but if you take piractem on chronic basis (like me ) it would probably suppress it since your brain is on over drive all day long and eagerly goes onto non rem sleep through most of the night making you wake up early and have more quality sleep, more over the stimulatory effects of piractem would be negated due to its low concentration since you probably would take it in the morning if your taking it for cognitive reasons.