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Can anyone clearly discern letters and numbers while LD'ing, and succesfully recall them while awake?
I know that especially clock numbers are a classic reality check to discern lucidity (to see if they change), but are other text and numbers clear enough to be recalled? Any insight would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Legend
it seems rather difficult to recall those kinds of details. ive recalled numbers id seen on digital clocks in my dreams. ive read text and recalled it too. most of the time, things like text are right on the tip of my tongue, but i cant recall it.
Mostly that seems to be a way for you to do a reality check. It doesn't HAVE to happen if you don't want it to happen. I've had 'static' numbers on clocks before.
One time I saw a fire alarm labeled "FIRE!" and so I pulled it. When I looked back, it said "FIGHT!" and everyone in the mall (where i was) was having a huge brawl!! I only remembered this because it matched the context of the dream tho.
Hello,
I'm so glad you posted this! Many times, I see random words, as if on transparent cue cards, while falling asleep. I'm glad to hear that someone else does too :)
I try to write them down and keep them in groups per night. Sometimes, I can draw meaning from them for a future event. Other times, they seem to have no significance.
~Deja
Something weird about this happened to me just a few days ago. It was a non-lucid dream though. What happened was: I was in a car and looking through the front window at the car infront of us. Then I looked at its license plate and it said the words "arc angel", but the thing was, it said it in 6 letters. I clearly remember seeing "arc" on one side of the division in the plate and "angel" written in 3 letters (which is physically impossible) on the other side. Weird.
From what I understand, researchers conclude that lettters and numbers (>5) are artificial human constructs, handled by the higher analytical thought processes resident in the left hemisphere of the brain. Subconcious, right hemispherical processes (like dreaming), are right brain functions, and are received and handled holistically (arriving as "whole" concepts - like music and art, which doesn't have to be "pre-processed" to make sense to us).
Essentially, when we see a word while awake, we "add up the letters" to make a word, or "work" a mathematical problem to arrive at a solution.
Apparently, while dreaming, we assume we've "read" a word, but in fact, what actually seems to have occurred is that we perceived a holistic concept and only put it in the context of having been presented to us as a written word.
If anyone feels that they can confidetly dispute this, I'm all ears.
-Legend
P.S. I've noticed that numbers can be recalled if spoken in a dream... has anyone else experienced this?
Dear Legend,Quote:
Originally posted by Legend
Can anyone clearly discern letters and numbers while LD'ing, and succesfully recall them while awake?
I know that especially clock numbers are a classic reality check to discern lucidity (to see if they change), but are other text and numbers clear enough to be recalled? Any insight would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Legend
First, I love your Avatar... I've recently began learning Mandarin and Chinese Script and so I surprised myself by actually being able to read your Avatar -- Dou, the Way.
Anyway, yes, dreamers have a horrible time keeping letters together. Writing and dreams is simply conflicting symbol paradigms -- or perhaps from different levels. To give you some insight into this idea of different levels, years ago in a Lucid Dream I was fighting the sensation of waking up and tried to stay in the dream, and so I was able to stall and drag out the phenomena of waking up. What happened was that the Dream Scenary slowly broke down from Visual Images to Written Narrative -- the Dream when from 'Movie' to just being the basic 'Script'.
So it may be that our Dreams are based on conceptual ideas that source out of our verbal inventories -- the seeds of our Dreams may be in the words we know and how we picture them. In this case, words would be riding under out dreams. They would simply be out of their element if they were to rise to the surface -- they would be struggling to wiggle themselves into visual images, or morph into other words before they could have the time to solidfy into solid images.
Just several months ago, an important Dream of mine was able to show a Book, but was able to get around the problem of unstable writing. The Book did not have writing. The Cover of the Book had a space embossed for the Title, but instead of having a title in words, there was a kind of Window. In this Dream I had been saying The Lord's Prayer, or what we Catholics call the "Our Father". Everytime I mention "Father" or "Heaven" or any of the specifically Holy Words, the window on the cover of this Book lit up in White Light.
Monsieur Volont,
Thanks for joining in on this, and yes, that avatar is unmistakably "The Way" - touche! ("Tao" in English).
I'm especially grateful for your sharing your experience in attempting to prolong an LD, and having it 'devolve' into script, as it mirrors a similar anomaly of my own (If only inversely).
In a recent LD, I was attempting to communicate a day and date to a DC, and unfortunately was unprepared enough that I had to calcuate it in my mind. So, as I normally would, I thought of the day's current date, which day of the week it was, and began "counting" forward (i.e: IF today is Friday the 9th, THEN Saturday will be the 10th, etc.).
To my dismay, I felt myself being drawn out of the LD with every attempt at calculation. Luckily, it was only three days I needed, but I figured that my merely attempting to use higher analytical function (like math) was enough to knock someone out of an LD. (And perhaps can provide a possible "escape hatch tehnique" to exit a nightmarish LD?)
But its also sort of another chicken vs. egg conundrum... Did you recognize a fading LD as "script", or was my attempt at working with a sort of script (#'s) responsible for fading mine out? (Hmmmm...)
Thanks,
Legend
(...and Kudos to Deja... I found that saltcube OBE/LD timer... now just gotta work dem kinks out ;) ).
I can read clearly in a LD...in fact, I have learned to read 100WPS in a LD.
There is only one type of LD I can actually read real time books in, & I actually have to leave them open when I do that...
I remember once, upon reaching lucidity, I found myself inside a house unknown to me. The first thing I did was go to the bookcase and take out the vast numbers of books available. I read the book titles (none of them had illustrated covers) and enjoyed the literature. It was a satisfying experience. Funny how all I wanted to do was read and remember them. Unfortunately it was 2 years ago and I didn't have the patience for it :mad:Quote:
Originally posted by nesgirl119
I can read clearly in a LD...in fact, I have learned to read 100WPS in a LD.
There is only one type of LD I can actually read real time books in, & I actually have to leave them open when I do that...
Next time you do this nesgirl119, remember your reading and let us know about it :wink:
Back when I first started LD, I used the ephemeral nature of words and numbers as my reality-check.
I wore a watch in the real world with a sticker across the face: "Am I DREAMing? 123987"
Because I was in school and pretty much constantly checking the watch anyway (;)) - it proved a very effective regular reality check.
The most amusing occurance was in dream state, I checked my watch. It said "Am I dreaming" without the numbers and wrong case. And then it morphed into "Ask Again Later" like a Magic 8-Ball. :)
I like the way you explained this, Legend. It makes a lot more sense to me now. I think you're totally right. Oftentimes people will speak to me in a dream and I'll understand what they mean, but they'll be speaking gibberish. Dreams seem to communicate to me in feelings.. i know that dog is mine because it just is... i understand speech without listning to what's being said... numbers and letters communicate their meaning to me without my actually reading them. It's all really really interesting.Quote:
Originally posted by Legend
From what I understand, researchers conclude that lettters and numbers (>5) are artificial human constructs, handled by the higher analytical thought processes resident in the left hemisphere of the brain. Subconcious, right hemispherical processes (like dreaming), are right brain functions, and are received and handled holistically (arriving as \"whole\" concepts - like music and art, which doesn't have to be \"pre-processed\" to make sense to us).
Essentially, when we see a word while awake, we \"add up the letters\" to make a word, or \"work\" a mathematical problem to arrive at a solution.
Apparently, while dreaming, we assume we've \"read\" a word, but in fact, what actually seems to have occurred is that we perceived a holistic concept and only put it in the context of having been presented to us as a written word.
If anyone feels that they can confidetly dispute this, I'm all ears.
-Legend
P.S. I've noticed that numbers can be recalled if spoken in a dream... has anyone else experienced this?
nesgirl119 wrote:
Genjyo wrote:Quote:
I can read clearly in a LD...in fact, I have learned to read 100WPS in a LD.
There is only one type of LD I can actually read real time books in, & I actually have to leave them open when I do that...[/b]
Fascinating! If I had the resources (and the scientific credentials), I'd pull both of you in for extensive experimentation. You could really contribute to an entirely new understanding of LD.Quote:
I remember once, upon reaching lucidity, I found myself inside a house unknown to me. The first thing I did was go to the bookcase and take out the vast numbers of books available. I read the book titles (none of them had illustrated covers) and enjoyed the literature.[/b]
Just for my own benefit, am I correctly understanding you that you distinctly remember the individual characters that made up those words?
And humble thanks to Dangeruss... but it's not like I can take credit for anything I pass on. Most of the time, I'm as lost as last year's easter eggs. :wink:
Thanks to ALL who posted,
Legend
lol Legend, I'd be glad to share my experiences. Even so, the thought of being experimented on isn't too comforting :mad: :eek: Seeing letters and numbers in LD have already been well documented.
In my dream I recall reading books and gaining knowledge at the same time. Sadly, the only thing I remember is the act of reading different books (fiction/non-fiction...short stories, novels, and even looking up some encyclopedias) and not the actual content. To me, every character was accurately represented. I could not power read there though. It was great fun and that has been one of the few dreams that seemed to last a great deal of time.
Oh, reference The Tao, or Dao.... I am using what has been adopted as what has become almost the Standard Phonetic Transliterated Language between Mandarin and the Phonetically bassed Languages -- Pinyin. Pinyin is wonderful. Do you know Mandarin, or are you studying it? There are quite a few On Line tools that one can use, and then if one is willing to spend just a bit of money, all sorts of learning tools are available. In Pinyin, your Tao is Dao4 (the four indicating that Dao is spoken with a falling tone). The Character is still quite in current use, being used in the very common word 'Zhi(1)dao(4)' which means 'to know'.Quote:
Originally posted by Legend
Monsieur Volont,
Thanks for joining in on this, and yes, that avatar is unmistakably \"The Way\" - touche! (\"Tao\" in English).
I'm especially grateful for your sharing your experience in attempting to prolong an LD, and having it 'devolve' into script, as it mirrors a similar anomaly of my own (If only inversely).
In a recent LD, I was attempting to communicate a day and date to a DC, and unfortunately was unprepared enough that I had to calcuate it in my mind. So, as I normally would, I thought of the day's current date, which day of the week it was, and began \"counting\" forward (i.e: IF today is Friday the 9th, THEN Saturday will be the 10th, etc.).
To my dismay, I felt myself being drawn out of the LD with every attempt at calculation. Luckily, it was only three days I needed, but I figured that my merely attempting to use higher analytical function (like math) was enough to knock someone out of an LD. (And perhaps can provide a possible \"escape hatch tehnique\" to exit a nightmarish LD?)
But its also sort of another chicken vs. egg conundrum... Did you recognize a fading LD as \"script\", or was my attempt at working with a sort of script (#'s) responsible for fading mine out? (Hmmmm...)
Thanks,
Legend
(...and Kudos to Deja... I found that saltcube OBE/LD timer... now just gotta work dem kinks out ;) ).
Now, about our Dreams... it is good to see some simularities between our two templates. Contingency and Limitation are the hallmarks of any Real Experience. People who insist that dreaming is entirely from the fantastic imagination need to be reminded that 'stone walls' can be run into even within dreams... and here the Stone Wall seems to be the access of the Analytical Conceptual Mind.
What exactly, the reading the real time book, or reading 100WPS in a LD?Quote:
Originally posted by Genjyo
I remember once, upon reaching lucidity, I found myself inside a house unknown to me. The first thing I did was go to the bookcase and take out the vast numbers of books available. I read the book titles (none of them had illustrated covers) and enjoyed the literature. It was a satisfying experience. Funny how all I wanted to do was read and remember them. Unfortunately it was 2 years ago and I didn't have the patience for it :mad:
Next time you do this nesgirl119, remember your reading and let us know about it :wink:
:o Both in that case!!
Something else worth noting the information I found in those books was completely new to me. Never before had I read any of the book titles nor content of my dream literature. It's such a parallel to when you find yourself in unfamiliar territory within your dreams.
Great idea. I think I will try that w/Cody on the way to CA, & prove once again that they are indeed LDs....& not 100% real life!!....!!!!Quote:
Originally posted by Genjyo
:o Both in that case!!
Something else worth noting the information I found in those books was completely new to me. Never before had I read any of the book titles nor content of my dream literature. It's such a parallel to when you find yourself in unfamiliar territory within your dreams.
Then after that, I will read in a LD again!! :D
nesgirl119 wrote:
Please... when you do - could you pay particular attention to the spelling of a word you find in your reading that you may not have normally known? (seen before/knew the defintition of).Quote:
Great idea. I think I will try that w/Cody on the way to CA, & prove once again that they are indeed LDs....& not 100% real life!!....!!!! [/b]
I know it sounds odd, but it would be a great help if you could spell out the word you find that way after recall, and post it here ~ it would be awesome (especially if you can also recall the title and author as well).
Thanks in advance,
Legend
P.S. Enjoy Cali!
I can't flip the pages unfortunately, but I can read a book left open!! That I will try to do!!Quote:
Originally posted by Legend
nesgirl119 wrote:
Please... when you do - could you pay particular attention to the EXACT word you find at this location:Quote:
Great idea. I think I will try that w/Cody on the way to CA, & prove once again that they are indeed LDs....& not 100% real life!!....!!!!
9th page
6th paragraph
3rd word
(9, 6, 3... get it? ...memory aids)
I know it sounds odd, but it would be a great help if you could spell out the word after recall, and post it here ~ it would be awesome (especially if you can also recall the title and author as well).
Thanks in advance,
Legend
P.S. Enjoy Cali![/b]
We are going to CA in the LD, sorry I should have mentioned that earlier.....however, I will for sure be going in a month & 1/2!! :oops:
Out of curiosity, how was the 100WPS measured? Standard 5char/word as well?Quote:
Originally posted by nesgirl119
or reading 100WPS in a LD?
Well, nesgirl119, if your 'trip' is a month and a half away, maybe that'll be enough time for you to overlook my glitch. You replied by quoting a post I made, but then I changed because I thought it would much too complicated for you to do.
Let's just say that if you can recall anything about that reading, I'd be grateful. :)
Was measured 100 Words per second....I am able to read much faster in a LD than in real time..Quote:
Originally posted by kimpossible
Out of curiosity, how was the 100WPS measured? Standard 5char/word as well?
BTW, I failed to meet Cody last night in CA (in the LD silly) & he is going to be mad, but I managed to read a magazine article (an open book of course). I did reread the book, only b/c I wanted to make sure this is exactly what I read. The magazine article's name was called 'After The Fire'. The author's name was Rebecca (I didn't remember the last 1/2 of her name, so sorry). The plot of the story is on the night of 2-7 long ago, there was a mother & her daughter, who tried to light up the stove b/c the house was seriously cold, but then there was an explosion of fire, & after breaking through the window, she pleaded w/a neighbor to help. Then a bishop from her religion came to try to help her, but the doctor said that she & her daughter wouldn't survive!!
Well, w/o looking much on the pages, that isn't bad.
Again, I read a book in a LD on 'How to operate a Nintendo in a LD!' I got ahold of 100WPS, & finished the book in no time!
My work here is done!!
Right. I'm just wondering what method was used to measure the 100WPS?
Dream control....extreme dream control!Quote:
Originally posted by kimpossible
Right. I'm just wondering what method was used to measure the 100WPS?
I'm sold (Well Done!)
Legend
Hey! You can do it too! Just touch up your D. Control a little, & you can do it as well!Quote:
Originally posted by Legend
I'm sold (Well Done!)
Legend
If you want to try the 'Reading the Real Time Book' method, here is what you need to do:
~Leave a book open on your counter (you cannot flip the pages, unfortunately)
~Prepare for WILD
~Instead of Following the Dream Imagery in the final phase of WILD, try to get up.
~If successful, you have a 10% chance of being in the right situation (the other situations include WILD, FA, waking up, or maybe NonLD dreaming). RC just in case.
~After this, read the open book (you cannot flip the pages, so don't try).
~Go back to bed
~Get up & make sure that the book is exactly what you read.
Splash does this, too, BTW! Works very well!
Thanks! I am SO going to do that (as soon as I get WILD down pat... I get to the SP and vibrations, but not much more at the moment... just gotta keep at it, I guess!)
-Legend
Clear this up for me?
You can't flip the pages. So you open a single page, go to sleep. 10% of the time you'll be able to read that single page at a rate of 100wps?
Am I understanding correctly?
(and I'm still not getting how the 100wps was measured. I read at a trillion wps this morning in a non-lucid dream. I must have been thinking about your posts when going to sleep... The problem there is that when you can invent the scale of time arbitrarily, n / t measurements are going to be arbitrary as well.)
I said that you cannot flip the pages of a Real Time book if you are reading it. 10% of the time this method will work at all, b/c sometimes you may have a FA instead, or you might just WILD.Quote:
Originally posted by kimpossible
Clear this up for me?
You can't flip the pages. So you open a single page, go to sleep. 10% of the time you'll be able to read that single page at a rate of 100wps?
Am I understanding correctly?
(and I'm still not getting how the 100wps was measured. I read at a trillion wps this morning in a non-lucid dream. I must have been thinking about your posts when going to sleep... The problem there is that when you can invent the scale of time arbitrarily, n / t measurements are going to be arbitrary as well.)
The 100wps is valid on a LD book only....it won't work on Real Time books! Real time books require you to use that method mentioned above, but it can take a while to get it to work if you haven't done it b4.....it can only be done in la ciencia ficcions. It is kind of like if you do it in a LD, you can read 100wps, but you cannot read a real time book, & it is vice-versa in a la ciencia ficcion.
Prehaps I'm being dense.
If it's an "LD book" - then it's a book created in the imagination, right? Like "Operating a Nintendo in LD" (I did check for an ISBN on "Operating a Nintendo*" - nothing in Books In Print. worth the check, though! :))
If the book is created in the imagination, then the mind knows the entire book at some level. So if the book were a trillion words long, then it could be read instantaneously, giving a theoretical infinite number of words/second, right?
Just trying to understand!
No, you're not.....every one always says that to me whenever I mention la ciencia ficcions...Quote:
Originally posted by kimpossible
Prehaps I'm being dense.
If it's an \"LD book\" - then it's a book created in the imagination, right? Like \"Operating a Nintendo in LD\" (I did check for an ISBN on \"Operating a Nintendo*\" - nothing in Books In Print. worth the check, though! :))
If the book is created in the imagination, then the mind knows the entire book at some level. So if the book were a trillion words long, then it could be read instantaneously, giving a theoretical infinite number of words/second, right?
Just trying to understand!
That is true, but there are some books that I have yet to read in there! I have a huge library of them to read...well, & in actuality, my weak subject is reading comprehension, so I have to read them more than once! :D
Thanks for helping me understand.
Now, when you write "la ciencia ficcions" - the literal translation would be "The Science Fiction"
Are you referring to the genre of science fiction within the subset of Books In Print - or is this intended to reference something that doesn't exist within the real [waking] world?
If it's the latter, I might humbly suggest "ficción privada" as being further descriptive whilst maintaining the spanish connotation.
A quick google search suggests the quote to be self-refferential in that the only reference is a post you made here a couple days ago.
I have strong written and spoken function in six languages, survivable in an additional handful esp. written. So I believe my translation to be fairly accurate in the literal sense. And I try to do my homework prior to making a query, so bear with me if you would!
Hi kimpossible,
I can't help but interject myself here, I hope you don't mind, because I'm only trying to help.
I'm assuming that you consider all LD to be purely "imagination-generated". If I can do anything to dissuade you of that limitation, I would be most pleased with myself.
I can't speak for nesgirl119, but I can speak from experience that not all LD's are purely imagination. Perhaps I would be better served to reference OBE'ing in an LD - then you might better understand the concept of what I believe nesgirl is getting at.
If you could LD, and while in that LD, OBE to a real-world, known physical location (like, say.. .a library) - you might be able to read an open book there.
As far fetched as it may seem, it has been scientifically documented by Dr. Robert Munroe, formerly of the Munroe Institute (under U.S. governmental patronage).
Help any?
Legend
Rats! I was hoping to use that longer than I thought...guess I will have to find another new hidden term for S**-**!! Arrgh! :PQuote:
Originally posted by kimpossible
Now, when you write \"la ciencia ficcions\" - the literal translation would be \"The Science Fiction\"
or is this intended to reference something that doesn't exist within the real [waking] world?!
Anyways, it refers to a type of LD that you can actually view real time in, & you can fly through space(hence the name), but cannot walk!!!
I can give you a list of languages I don't speak - or I can just keep my virtual mouth shut next time. Either way is good. 8)
Go on ahead.....I would like to hear them all!Quote:
Originally posted by kimpossible
I can give you a list of languages I don't speak - or I can just keep my virtual mouth shut next time. Either way is good. 8)
Naw, that was a stone-cold bluff. The list I don't speak would require too much research on my part.
If you're interested in the languages I do have - we should take that away from the open forum. I'm boorish enough as it is!
You might want to ask Seeker about that....he knows what I am talking about (unless you'd rather PM me!)Quote:
Originally posted by kimpossible
Naw, that was a stone-cold bluff. The list I don't speak would require too much research on my part.
If you're interested in the languages I do have - we should take that away from the open forum. I'm boorish enough as it is!
PM was where I was going with that...
Okay, we can talk more about it through PMs!Quote:
Originally posted by kimpossible
PM was where I was going with that...
While I have not tried this while LD'ing, I very very often reaqd books whislt dreaming- and for the most part they are very coherent, clocks however change constantly. I find the clock thing very odd, even whilst LD'ing they change, odd in that I always recite the time before I look again, and every time it always changes to some weird number.
Books, these tomes of text are coherent- and generally don't change. The clocks however always do, I am almost beggining to think its because I subconsciously KNOW that clock will change.