paying attention to thoughts

A lot of people think of letting the mind wander as a bad thing but I don't think it is. What do all DILD techniques have in common? It is to teach our mind to recognize the waking state from the dream state. In a non lucid dream we behave abnormally. If we are behaving abnormally then our thoughts should also be abnormal as well. In waking life while the mind is wandering simply pay attention to your thoughts in the context of lucid dreaming. Are the things you are thinking about common things you normally think about or are these thoughts odd even for you? Are you thinking in a nonsensical manner? These are just one of the many questions you could ask yourself while your mind is wandering. The point of this is to develop the ability to recognize when your mode of thinking has become abnormal.

I have seen some people talk about self awareness but they talk about paying attention to your body and your actions. Thats all well and good but it is still externally focused isn't it? This method I have described above is a variation of self awareness but focused more inwards. Being aware of your thoughts and feeling instead of being aware of your body and actions.

My question to you all is that will it work? I am not posting this as a new technique or anything. I am just wondering if you think paying attention to ones own thoughts and feelings in the context of lucid dreaming can be beneficial because a lot of DILD techniques seem to focus way to much externally and not much internally.

If you wander alot in waking life you usually lose your awareness fron your surroundings. In dreams if i start wandering in thoughts my dreams become really random and often the sceanry changes and in lucid dream i usually wake up because the dream turns unstable. I think my lucid dream are stable because i only focus my dream envioroment and dont think much. I used to try this while ago but i never reconized whats weird and whats not in my thought while on a dream. Logic doesnt work that well in dreams

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Originally Posted by Daredevilpwn

I have seen some people talk about self awareness but they talk about paying attention to your body and your actions. Thats all well and good but it is still externally focused isn't it? This method I have described above is a variation of self awareness but focused more inwards. Being aware of your thoughts and feeling instead of being aware of your body and actions.

My question to you all is that will it work? I am not posting this as a new technique or anything. I am just wondering if you think paying attention to ones own thoughts and feelings in the context of lucid dreaming can be beneficial because a lot of DILD techniques seem to focus way to much externally and not much internally.

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What you're talking about is "mindfulness," and yes it is beneficial not only for training yourself to recognize the dream state, but also in living a more fulfilling waking life as well :).

p.s. I don't think we behave "abnormally" in non-lucid dreams. I can only speak personally, but I tend to have the same reactions, thoughts, fears, concerns, etc. as I do when awake -- just dulled by the fog of the dream state.

^^ FryingMan makes a couple of good points, Daredevilpwn, particularly about our consciousnesses (thoughts) behaving in about the same manner in waking life as in dreaming life. It isn't our thoughts that are messed up in dreams, or our thought processes addled, so much as it is our limited access to memory that leads us to believe some very crazy things in dreams (i.e., since you don't remember in a dream that there really are not three moons in the sky, it does not strike you as odd that they are hovering above you). If there is no reference from which to correct what your dreaming mind has put forth as reality, then you will, quite rationally, accept what you are given. The same goes for things you are thinking about during dreams.

That said, your plan is still a good one. Paying attention to your thought processes, or just following your thought streams as they meander about your head, is always a good thing to do, on a lot of levels -- particularly in developing self-awareness/mindfulness, but also in forming a stronger bond with memory: after all, a very rational reaction and decent exercise in this paying attenion is wondering where the hell a particular random thought came from. Do this in a NLD, and you might just find yourself wrenching your memory to verify a thought and, in the process, remembering that you are dreaming.

I'm sure you're not surprised to hear me say that paying attention is a very good thing, Daredevilpwn, but keep in mind that the consciousness you are using to do that attending is pretty much the same one you have during the day. Thouhts are thoughts, and paying attention to them in the context of LD'ing will do no harm, and paying attention to them in the context of memory will be most helpful -- especially during the dream.

tl;dr: Yes, this will work, though maybe not for tne reasons you list (but that might not matter).

Thanks for the answers everyone. I would like to clarify when I said "abnormal". In a lot of dreams I tend to do things that I would not normally do such as fight aliens even though in the real world I would run to the hills if an alien invasion were to come. Sometimes I take on a different persona in a dream whereas I am not myself but some "other" person. Comparing and noticing the difference between my waking life self and dream self and seeing how my dream self does things that I wouldn't do in waking life I considered this to be an "abnormal" state of mind. However your explanation about memory makes more sense. If I am playing the role of a different person in my dream then it is because I do not remember how I am in the real world. Since I cannot compare how I am to how I once was in a non lucid dream then I will just think of everything as normal.

So it appears that letting your mind wander while paying attention to what your wandering about is perfectly fine. I mainly made this thread because a lot of awareness techniques seem to shun daydreaming or letting your mind wander. There are times when the mind is focused more inward and other times when it is focused outward or a mix of both. I plan on using this to my advantage. If I find myself more externally focused then I pay attention to what I am doing. If I find myself in a contemplative mood then I can pay attention to my thoughts and feelings. Both of these things are a form of self awareness.

^^ Agreed.

And yes, daydreaming is perhaps a function of mind that could stand some attention. We probably shouldn't be shunning anything the mind does on its own, because it is still our mind, but particularly shunning a repository of imagination and potential unconscious chatter seems counter-intuitive, if you think about it.

So good luck with paying attention, and I hope you'll post if something curious comes of this!

Thanks for this post. I suffer from insomnia and the most irritating thing in the world for me is not sleeping but falling into nonsensical thought land. It's like you're dreaming but you're physically awake and observing how absurd you're thought process is, and that's a typical 8 hours of "rest" for me. I think my insomnia has played a role in my ability to lucid dream, because I'm able to observe my self transition from hypnogogic to lucid dream phase. It's a blessing that takes its toll and most mornings I wake up with little to no actual physical rest.

thanks again for the post though, I thought I was going schizophrenic for a second there.

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Originally Posted by Sageous

^^ FryingMan makes a couple of good points, Daredevilpwn, particularly about our consciousnesses (thoughts) behaving in about the same manner in waking life as in dreaming life. It isn't our thoughts that are messed up in dreams, or our thought processes addled, so much as it is our limited access to memory that leads us to believe some very crazy things in dreams (i.e., since you don't remember in a dream that there really are not three moons in the sky, it does not strike you as odd that they are hovering above you). If there is no reference from which to correct what your dreaming mind has put forth as reality, then you will, quite rationally, accept what you are given. The same goes for things you are thinking about during dreams.

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I find what you say fascinating, because I've noticed that my memory, even in LDs, does tend to behave rather oddly. It feels like there's a filter mediating access to it, preventing access to some things, and modifying or completely fabricating others. I've been fascinated by how often I would stop and try to remember details about my waking life from within a LD and find that I simply can't remember, or I might remember something only to discover later that it was completely wrong. I've learned to try to remind myself to take anything I think I remember during a dream with a grain of salt, since it can be inaccurate no matter how trustworthy it seems to be.

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Originally Posted by isthisreal

Thanks for this post. I suffer from insomnia and the most irritating thing in the world for me is not sleeping but falling into nonsensical thought land. It's like you're dreaming but you're physically awake and observing how absurd you're thought process is, and that's a typical 8 hours of "rest" for me. I think my insomnia has played a role in my ability to lucid dream, because I'm able to observe my self transition from hypnogogic to lucid dream phase. It's a blessing that takes its toll and most mornings I wake up with little to no actual physical rest.

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I've often experienced random mind-wandering like that right on the onset of sleep. It really does seem very similar to dreaming (my thoughts will involuntarily wander and create scenarios in ways that closely mirror actual dreams), except that I am not yet “actually” experiencing the sensory stimuli; it's still taking place “in my mind,” so to speak (although at this stage I'm usually very close to losing consciousness if I haven't already, and I don't recognize the difference, reacting internally just as if it were reality, like a non-lucid dream).

Oh, to also answer the question
your not behaving abnormally,
Your reacting off base instinct.
That is where awareness or "mindfulness" comes in.
We have the ability to be aware of what we feel, see , think.
Otherwise our brains are more reactive and are more easily controlled or. influenced by your environment, mentally and or physically.

The trick with dreams is , to be able to remain aware , not become even more "monkey minded" (loosing focus and becoming caught in a string of analysis or emotional rises and falls..) but
To learn another skill called "concentration" in which to focus your awareness , on your breath, ect so as to cease the reactive. process of our awareness so that the brain may continue into a quiet sleep cycle.

well this is how ive understood it so far.