I have been taking 30-50 MG of melatonin a night, for 4 months...I have some questions

So I have been eating 30-50 mg of melatonin a night.

I started taking it because I like the way melatonin puts me to sleep.

I stared taking 50 MG of melatonin a night, because I saw this on wiki

Dreaming

Some supplemental melatonin users report an increase in vivid dreaming. Extremely high doses of melatonin (50 mg) dramatically increased REM sleep time and dream activity in people both with and without narcolepsy.[101]


so I found out melatonin can destory ebola and cancer and its non toxic.

so I have been eating it for 4 months.

I notice I wake up always at like 5 AM, refreshed and not being able to fall asleep. why is this?

why do I wake up wide awake at 4 or 5 am all the time now

Perhaps the sleep you are getting is very efficient and restful? Not quite sure.

Yeah that's really interesting! The same thing happens to me when I take melatonin, but my dose is only 3-5 mg. I was reading a study where long term side effects of melatonin were studied in haemodialysis patients that had disturbed sleep, and in the study they said that after 3 months of taking a low dose of ~3 mg/day that sleep time and efficiency improved somewhat. (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23432361)
So maybe Dezz is right, maybe your sleep is getting more efficient and restful.
But I also wonder if taking such a high dose for so long would have any other kind of negative, long-term side-effects such as becoming dependent on it to fall asleep. Or I wonder if it would influence the amount of the hormone that our bodies naturally produce, especially if taken in time release tablets.

That's pretty neat though, do you get tired later in the day or are you wide awake for the entire day, so that you straight up need less sleep than you used to?

Am I reading this correctly? 50mg? That is a ridiculous amount and unnecessary imo. 3-6 mg puts me out... I use it infrequently, and have noticed increase in vividness of my dreams when taking it.

Your brain naturally produces melatonin though. Taking it regularly at even a 1-2 mg per night for an extended period of time will mess with your brains natural ability to produce this chemical.

Oh my! This is really a lot!

Please people do a thorough research before taking supplements and read what it says on the label rather than going with random wiki articles. The liver breaks down excess melatonin into serotonin, so excess melatonin can have serious unintended consequences beyond affecting your sleep cycle. Long term use of any supplement can be dangerous. :nono:

Younger people have less need to take such supplements anyways because their body is able to produce it naturally. Dosage should be limited to single digits - 1-3mg, especially for younger people.

I will echo the comments that 30-50mg is a *massive, massive* dose and you really should consider stopping it right away.

Melatonin suppresses REM sleep in favor of deep sleep, so you probably have gotten a full night's amount of deep sleep in the shorter amount of time which is why you wake up feeling rested.

But REM sleep is also important, and REM sleep is where we do most of our dreaming.

Yuschak, who wrote the "bible" on supplements and lucid dreaming, mentioned that melatonin (even in 3mg-5mg range), while enhancing bed-time drowsiness making it easier to initially get to sleep, tended to cause middle of the night insomnia like you're experiencing.

I only take melatonin when I really need to sleep early, but when I take it, I also wake up in the middle of the night feeling fully awake.

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Originally Posted by NyxCC

Oh my! This is really a lot!

Please people do a thorough research before taking supplements and read what it says on the label rather than going with random wiki articles. The liver breaks down excess melatonin into serotonin, so excess melatonin can have serious unintended consequences beyond affecting your sleep cycle. Long term use of any supplement can be dangerous. :nono:

Younger people have less need to take such supplements anyways because their body is able to produce it naturally. Dosage should be limited to single digits - 1-3mg, especially for younger people.

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I don't think that melatonin is actually broken down into serotonin in the liver. Would you be willing to share your source of that information?

Two metabolites of melatonin are N-acetylserotonin (aka NAS or normelatonin, maybe that is where the confusion was?) and 6-hydroxymelatonin (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21358968). Both of those compounds don't seem to be toxic at all, and while NAS is an intermediate between serotonin and melatonin and NAS can cross the blood-brain barrier, the literature that I have read suggests that no serotonin is produced as a result of increased levels of NAS (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6655558). As for those two metabolites themselves, they are both strong antioxidants, 6-hydroxymelatonin is a cardiotonic agent, and NAS has anti-inflammatory properties. There are a few other molecules that are found in elevated levels after melatonin is ingested, and I'm sure you could look those up as well if you were really interested, but I'm not sure that it's entirely necessary. Melatonin appears to be pretty much entirely non-toxic (Chemical Effects in Biological Systems (CEBS)). Melatonin has several positive effects on the body as well, including being an antioxidant, having a gastroprotective effect which can extend to reducing the severity of lesions induced by NSAIDs, and I think I read something about anti-aging somewhere as well, but I'm not entirely sure about that one :cheeky:(https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11472247).

Sorry about the block of text!

@pressure: You probably don't have to worry too much about taking high doses of melatonin. Researchers gave mice ridiculously high doses (200 mg/kg of body weight) and the mice pretty much just fell asleep and had some temporarily elevated levels of liver enzymes, but no lasting toxic effects.

I'm not sure about what effect taking such a high dose would have on dreaming, but it is definitely not necessary to take that high of a dose for sleeping. Even the standard 3-5 mg tablets are an unnecessarily high dose for falling asleep. But be wary that long-term studies (longer than 3 months) on the side-effects of taking melatonin haven't really been done yet, so it might do some kind of weird thing that we don't know about yet. :hugitout:

^^ That's some good research and I am well aware of all the benefits of melatonin and the general view that there is no toxicity. I can bring evidence that the break down does occur in the liver (refer to book "Melatonin: Therapeutic value and neuroprotection" for example). On number of websites usage is not recommended for people with liver issues.

As for the serotonin part, perhaps I am wrong about the metabolite. I recall coming along this info a while ago, though at the present am unable to find it.

It's a pity though that my opinion on the subject has been discredited. I am more than convinced that a high dosage of any substance can have detrimental side effects. Too much vitamin C can contribute to kidney stones for example, even if it is an antioxidant. The body is a complex system and taking supplements transfers resources from one place to another. Continuous intake of anything will lead to either excess or depletion in another area.

I was hoping my post would discourage people who read articles like the one quoted from wikipedia (and also happen to come across this post) to take unwise amounts of supplements that I am convinced will be dangerous to their health. Alas, your evidence might push them in precisely that direction. :(

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Originally Posted by AnotherDreamer

Yeah that's really interesting! The same thing happens to me when I take melatonin, but my dose is only 3-5 mg. I was reading a study where long term side effects of melatonin were studied in haemodialysis patients that had disturbed sleep, and in the study they said that after 3 months of taking a low dose of ~3 mg/day that sleep time and efficiency improved somewhat.
So maybe Dezz is right, maybe your sleep is getting more efficient and restful.
But I also wonder if taking such a high dose for so long would have any other kind of negative, long-term side-effects such as becoming dependent on it to fall asleep. Or I wonder if it would influence the amount of the hormone that our bodies naturally produce, especially if taken in time release tablets.

That's pretty neat though, do you get tired later in the day or are you wide awake for the entire day, so that you straight up need less sleep than you used to?

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I wake up feeling very good. I am breathing better, and the acid reflux I had for 6 years...is gone. Strange because doctors gave me all kinds of stuff to help...and none of it did.

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Originally Posted by Michael

Am I reading this correctly? 50mg? That is a ridiculous amount and unnecessary imo. 3-6 mg puts me out... I use it infrequently, and have noticed increase in vividness of my dreams when taking it.

Your brain naturally produces melatonin though. Taking it regularly at even a 1-2 mg per night for an extended period of time will mess with your brains natural ability to produce this chemical.

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YES! Our brain do naturally produce it, but through my research I have found that sodium floride, destories out pineal glands! They put this sodium fluoride in everything. I have found out that every living thing in the world, has melatonin. making it the most important universal hormone in basic cellular life in the world.

its found even in the most dangerous viruses in the world, and actually, melatonin has the ability to destroy viruses, because it has the master key access to enter and destroy them, because it is a free radical scavenger. I found out later that 50 MG is what they give to cancer patients.

which makes me wonder, since I am 35 and have been smoking cigs and weed since I was 15, so technically, I AM a candidate for cancer, through my own doings. The melatonin has taken away my stomach issues that plagued me for 6 years....

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Originally Posted by FryingMan

I will echo the comments that 30-50mg is a *massive, massive* dose and you really should consider stopping it right away.

Melatonin suppresses REM sleep in favor of deep sleep, so you probably have gotten a full night's amount of deep sleep in the shorter amount of time which is why you wake up feeling rested.

But REM sleep is also important, and REM sleep is where we do most of our dreaming.

Yuschak, who wrote the "bible" on supplements and lucid dreaming, mentioned that melatonin (even in 3mg-5mg range), while enhancing bed-time drowsiness making it easier to initially get to sleep, tended to cause middle of the night insomnia like you're experiencing.

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are you sure melatonin reduced REM sleep....my research says it INCREASES IT... I cant post links because im to new here, but I know it says it decreases the first 2 cycles of sleep, which are useless, and increases REM deep sleep, that heals your cells and boost your immune system


I think you need to check your facts?


I started researching and found out that there are melatonin receptors in my stomach



We tend to think of melatonin, often called the “sleep hormone,” in terms of—you guessed it—sleep. So what does melatonin have to do with your digestion? The answer is a lot.

WHY MELATONIN?

Melatonin is a naturally occurring hormone that is made in various parts of the body. When produced by the brain’s pineal gland (which happens whenever you’re exposed to darkness), melatonin has a strong influence on circadian rhythms and encourages sleep. It also has many other beneficial effects. Preliminary studies show that it is an effective treatment for migraine, obesity and seasonal affective disorder.

What many people don’t know: The gastrointestinal (GI) tract secretes up to 500 times as much melatonin as the pineal gland. Researchers have determined that the hormone plays an important role in the GI system by preventing oxidative stress on GI cells…regulating cholesterol uptake by the intestinal wall...helping to heal damage to the lining of the GI tract…and promoting the secretion of other hormones that aid digestion and elimination. Studies have shown that supplementing with melatonin can help to treat esophageal ulcers, dyspepsia (upset stomach) and irritable bowel syndrome.



its well documented and I encourage everyone to do their own research...

The flood of sodium fluoride in water and food also creates other more serious health problems that are not widely publicized, even suppressed. Nevertheless, in addition to fluorosis, independent labs and reputable researchers have linked the following health issues with daily long term intake of sodium fluoride:

*Cancer
*Genetic DNA Damage
*Thyroid Disruption - affecting the complete endocrine system and leading to obesity
*Neurological - diminished IQ and inability to focus, lethargy and weariness.
*Alzheimer's Disease
*Melatonin Disruption, lowers immunity to cancer, accelerates aging, sleep disorders.
*Pineal Gland, calcification, which clogs this gland located in the middle of the brain




any ways, this is more then just a sleep drug. Melatonin fights cancer, and ebola, and it can penetrate every cell in your body to boost your immune system. Does anyone else think that they are trying to destory our pineal glands on purpose?

but now on to the lucid issues I have.

I have noticed I do remember my dreams now, but I found out, that my dreams are a world just like this one that we are in. What I mean is, I dont have dreams anymore, I have memories of another EXISTENCE which is a big difference.

I have noticed I will dream, wake up go to the bathroom, and fall right into the same dream... only I will be living a life, just like im living here. Its not to much different. Its almost alternate in nature. Like I have another me....But its a place, just like we are on earth.

In other words, My other self....is alseep right now....and he wakes up when I fall alseep.

when I become lucid, its like he becomes aware, that something is wrong... most of the times I realize im lucid, I wake up because he became aware of something

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Originally Posted by NyxCC

^^ That's some good research and I am well aware of all the benefits of melatonin and the general view that there is no toxicity. I can bring evidence that the break down does occur in the liver (refer to book "Melatonin: Therapeutic value and neuroprotection" for example). On number of websites usage is not recommended for people with liver issues.

As for the serotonin part, perhaps I am wrong about the metabolite. I recall coming along this info a while ago, though at the present am unable to find it.

It's a pity though that my opinion on the subject has been discredited. I am more than convinced that a high dosage of any substance can have detrimental side effects. Too much vitamin C can contribute to kidney stones for example, even if it is an antioxidant. The body is a complex system and taking supplements transfers resources from one place to another. Continuous intake of anything will lead to either excess or depletion in another area.

I was hoping my post would discourage people who read articles like the one quoted from wikipedia (and also happen to come across this post) to take unwise amounts of supplements that I am convinced will be dangerous to their health. Alas, your evidence might push them in precisely that direction. :(

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I am sorry that you feel that way Nyx, I think that people should always research before taking any supplements. I was hoping that my post would encourage people to research things without any wikis, in order to get an unbiased answer on whether they are comfortable taking a supplement or any medication in general.

It is not true that a high dosage of any substance can have detrimental side effects. Some substances are simply lost in the urine or feces when in excess. I agree that the body is a complex system, and I don't think that we know that much about it, but at the same time there has been a lot of research on various substances and I don't think that it's fair to make bold claims and warn people against taking some things when there isn't any evidence supporting those claims.

That's all, I don't want to get into any kind of argument about this, especially when I agree with your intentions, mostly. I'm sorry if I made you feel sad, I think you're awesome! :hug:

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Originally Posted by pressure

I wake up feeling very good. I am breathing better, and the acid reflux I had for 6 years...is gone. Strange because doctors gave me all kinds of stuff to help...and none of it did.

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I'm really glad to hear that, it always makes me happy to hear positive stories about people finding ways to heal themselves :content:

Good research and discussion, anotherdreamer and NyxCC!

I have some general remarks on ultra-high dosages of lucid dreaming supplements. The OP has gone for an extremely high melatonin dose, but my remarks are more about lucid dreaming supplements in general rather than melatonin.

Whenever possible, it's always best to start with a low dose rather than a high dose. This allows you to more easily find your lowest effective personal dose. If 1, 3, or 5 mg of your lucid dreaming supplement can bring you results, I recommend sticking closer to that rather than 30, 40, or 50 mg. This greatly reduces the risk of developing tolerances (substances becoming less effective for you over time) and experiencing side effects.

If you want to try higher doses of supplements, take the time to safely work your way up. It's less exciting, sure, but it'll keep you much safer than running straight for the high doses. Remember that most lucid dreaming supplements are nowhere near as safe as melatonin! Some (especially serotonergics) have the potential to be outright fatal if mishandled.

Always focus on safety! Nothing is more important to having lots of lucid dreams than leading a long, healthy life. :content:

Read Yuschak: "Advanced Lucid Dreaming; The Power of Supplements". melatonin suppresses REM in the early sleep cycles, the idea being that doing so promotes "REM rebound", longer and closer together REM cycles later in the night, resulting in "stronger", longer dreaming.

I take tons of Melatonin, it is not broken down into Serotonin, and in fact in the brain it is made from Serotonin.

I also take 5HTP to increase Serotonin, not sure why you think high Serotonin is a bad thing, unless you fear Serotonin Syndrome

High Melatonin will definitely induce insomnia, it also generally causes headache (but I never get these), it can make you sad and depressed, I always seem to cry a bit on the way to work.

I worry more about the other things that manufacturers always seem to toss into the pills like B6
I have some 5mg tablets that actually have 2x as much B6, tho they do list the B6 first on the ingredients list, still they don't always even mention it on the front of the bottle.

Melatonin does cause sleep disruption, it causes me to wake up after every dream cycle (so I have a chance to Dream Journal and refocus mind on trying to lucid dream in the next cycle) it causes my dreams to be more vivid, and it my opinion has cause my chance at lucid dreaming to go from 1/month to like 2.x times per weekend (I only seem to lucid on weekends)

Melatonin is one of the, if not the most effective anti-oxidant known, primarily because it is able to go everywhere in the body even into the nucleus and is believed to have binding sites everywhere.

It is prescribed at 50mg doses for people with cancer
as for destroying ebola that seems a bit out there (how many ebola patients do you think are taking it?)
but on a slightly related note it does increase Immune function significantly, and so if your are a tissue transplant patient it may increase tissue rejection, so if you find yourself borrowing someone else's kidneys or heart you might want to discontinue

I wouldn't recommend females take it at this level because it can cause menstrual problems (even spontaneous abortion)

My question would be how do you take this amount

Because it does cause sleep disruption and has a very very short half-life here is How I take it

initially I take 0,100,or 200 mg of 5HTP then sleep thru 2 cycles (generally 7:30 to 10:30)
then I take 5mg fast acting/5mg slow acting w/ 10mg B6 (all built into the pill) at like 10:30
(i usually go back to sleep no problem)
then at 12:00 I either take this same amount or 2x as much
then at 1:30 same thing again
then at 3:00 same thing again
on weekends I continue to take it at 4:30ish 6:00ish and 7:30ish but often I switch at 6:00 am to taking only fast acting like 5 or 10mg

I generally take the Melatonin even If I have insomnia, every cycle on schedule, if it is a weekend and I do ever get back to sleep I generally
lucid 1-2 times in the last two cycles.

After the first 3 cycles (the first 2 without Melatonin and the 3rd one with only the 10mg) I would say it is 50/50 as to If I actually fall asleep, (generally I do fall asleep when I give up on trying, then find myself in a lucid, since I have been up all night thinking about lucidity)

If you add it all up depending on how many cycles and if I take 10 or 20 per in the later cycles I generally take more than 50mg more like 70+

Do you just take it all at once? with its short half life you won't have any left by morning that is when I lucid dream so hence the slow release and multiple dosing.

I am considering taking it only Friday/Saturday and Saturday/Sunday since I have had only 10% or less of my lucids on week night days

(one additional cause of insomnia, reading dream views in the middle of the night It is 1:30 I just took 20mg and obviously I am reading dream views at the moment, I'm leaving for work super early today so this is my last cycle) :)

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Originally Posted by pressure

but now on to the lucid issues I have.

I have noticed I do remember my dreams now, but I found out, that my dreams are a world just like this one that we are in. What I mean is, I dont have dreams anymore, I have memories of another EXISTENCE which is a big difference.

I have noticed I will dream, wake up go to the bathroom, and fall right into the same dream... only I will be living a life, just like im living here. Its not to much different. Its almost alternate in nature. Like I have another me....But its a place, just like we are on earth.

In other words, My other self....is alseep right now....and he wakes up when I fall alseep.

when I become lucid, its like he becomes aware, that something is wrong... most of the times I realize im lucid, I wake up because he became aware of something

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Hi pressure, I registered here just to reply to your post. I feel the exact way that you do about lucid dreaming, I feel like I am awake in another life and am addicted to it. The problem is, I can't lucid dream as often as I want. I am going to try your method of mega melatonin but I was wondering if there are any other things that you do or take to help with lucid dreaming? Other supplements? Meditation? Anything? I could use some pointers. I have tried Galantamine, Huperzine, Choline...stuff like that. I appreciate any other advice or pointers!

Angie if your female keep in mind that Melatonin can alter menstrual cycles, so definitely not if pregnant or planing to be come so.
(it likely would only cause some spotty bleeding tho)

I'm in the Lucid dreaming contest at the moment and have been taking unspecified (moderators apparently don't like large doses discussed) amounts of Melatonin, I have had two lucids in the past 4 days

but Melatonin is more likely to make your dreams vivid not necessarily cause you to trigger.

But it is easier to trigger in more vivid dreams and also easier to remember them. If you are going to take a huge total dose it also might be best to take some at bed time then wake back to bed and take the rest. So that you have the highest dose when dreams are best after several hours of sleep, and when you are most likely to trigger (near your normal wake up time) (also obviously you can use MILD when you go back to sleep) [one obvious risk is some people might be groggy if they take Melatonin near waking, like Pressure I don't experience this but keep this in mind if you plan to drive etc.]

So far in the contest the most important thing I feel I have done is actually fragment and disrupt my sleep by setting the alarm clock to wake me at ever faster intervals on Friday night / Saturday morning. This causes your brain to avoid going into deep sleep as a result, your brain to avoid being shocked awake at random points in time during deep sleep, will after entering relatively deep sleep, quickly revert to light sleep. This has caused me to wake pretty much after every dream I have had after the first cycle (when I usually don't wake) I had one lucid that morning Saturday morning, and one on Monday morning (which is an unusual time for me) I have been doing other things too like Melatonin, but I credit the number of spontaneous awakenings per night for the most part.

I reset the alarm many times last night and the night before, but always awoke from dreams before it went off. Ironically the lucid I had was forgotten after a 2:20 am awakening but then when I woke up at 3:10 thinking I had few chances left to get lucid (I get up at 5:00am) I remembered the dream in which I had uncharacteristically good prospective memory (but I credit the contest itself for that as I was forced to try to remember a ridiculously large number of goals in the contest)

cooleymd,
Thank you for the quick reply! I will try the things that you suggested...I know there is not a quick and easy method and it takes work, but I have been working on it for over a year now and seem to still have many dry spells. I obviously haven't tried everything and know there is still a lot to learn. A lucid dreaming contest? That sounds interesting!
Thanks again, I really do appreciate any advice.
Angie

PS..would you recommend taking the mega melatonin in the early morning during peak dream time instead of bedtime? I know you mentioned taking it in groups throughout the night, but if you did take a larger dose, would it be better to do so right before AM dreams?

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Originally Posted by angie

Hi pressure, I registered here just to reply to your post. I feel the exact way that you do about lucid dreaming, I feel like I am awake in another life and am addicted to it. The problem is, I can't lucid dream as often as I want. I am going to try your method of mega melatonin but I was wondering if there are any other things that you do or take to help with lucid dreaming? Other supplements? Meditation? Anything? I could use some pointers. I have tried Galantamine, Huperzine, Choline...stuff like that. I appreciate any other advice or pointers!

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Yes! I have some more advice for you. Start drinking PURE water. Now, do you understand what PURE water means? Its not Fiji, or polland spring. you need to find DISTILLED WATER, it should be steamed distilled. If it doesnt say DISTILLED, its not pure water. You should drink this and only this.

Pure water has the right amount of atoms in it, and it has unique properties able to clean out your pineal (and your whole body) glad which is very important for melatonin production!

Melatonin is secreted from the pineal gland deep inside the brain. For more than a quarter-century, scientists have been intrigued by melatonin’s ability to coordinate the body’s physiological rhythms that help set the brain’s biological clock.

The principal factor affecting melatonin is light, which inhibits the secretion of this hormone. Darkness has the opposite effect from light, resulting in signaling to the pineal gland to increase melatonin secretion.

to start off just drink distilled water, start off with 10 MGs of Melatonin a night, and also eat a banana before bed it has b6 vitamin which helps dream recall.

melatonin wont harm you, its actually the words strongest antioxidant.

yet there are some who will tell you melatonin will harm you, and meletonin, something which ALL HUMANS PRODUCE, is a "controlled substance" in countries like CANADA. its barbaric but there is a conspiracy against the human race .

there is some who will even tell you drinking only pure water, is harmful, and you can even die from drinking pure water.

thats like saying the world is flat and if you sail to off to far you will fall off.

you dont realize it angie but your dreaming right now...... life is just a dream that lasts a lifetime.

Thanks pressure...I will take your advice and start drinking distilled water. I have done a lot of research on melatonin and am astounded at the benefits it has. I have yet to find any harm that it does, so I am not worried about it being bad for me. I will ask you the same thing I asked cooleymd...do you recommend taking melatonin at bedtime, throughout the night, or before peak dream times in the AM? I do appreciate your advice, and if you find something else, please feel free to share with me!
Also, I understand what you are talking about when you say life is a dream...the more I lucid dream, the more I realize that life is not what we think it is. I think this is why I am so obsessed with getting control of it, if that makes sense.

in this contest I have been taking about half on first awakening then about a quarter of the total dose on two more awakenings
but again I don't get tired in the morning and I don't drive to work :)

after at least 3-5 hours of sleep is the best time for DILD lucid dreaming

so that is when you will want the melatonin in ya

Thanks for all of your help, I tried your methods last night with an anonymous dose of melatonin and had very successful results! I really appreciate yours and pressure's advice. Thank you!!!!!!!!!

For what it's worth, I'm not sure the mods really care if you list your dosage amounts. As long as you're willing to put up with a warning or two, I would suggest that you go ahead and list those quantities... that is sort of what this thread is about, after all -- it seems silly to leave out the numbers.


[hopefully the mods haven't been PM'ing you guys about not listing dosage mounts; if they have, then never mind!]

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Originally Posted by Sageous

For what it's worth, I'm not sure the mods really care if you list your dosage amounts. As long as you're willing to put up with a warning or two, I would suggest that you go ahead and list those quantities... that is sort of what this thread is about, after all -- it seems silly to leave out the numbers.


[hopefully the mods haven't been PM'ing you guys about not listing dosage mounts; if they have, then never mind!]

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dosages of what? Everyone produces melatonin in their head. All this is doing is producing more, there is no harmful effects from melatonin. melatonin is a free radical scavenger. with all these cellphones, computers, pollution,ect puts oxidation stress on our bodies. Producing more is needed.

out food does not have the nutrioal content that it had 100 years ago...I think you need to eat 13 oranges to get the effect of 1 orange 100 years ago

yes, there very well is a conspiracy angie, attack your head with fluoride in the water.

have you ever drank PURE water for 1 month angie? I was alive for 3 decades before I started to drink PURE WATER.

I always thought pure water was just water.

^^ I'm pretty sure that, by definition, practice, and common understanding, 50mg of something you are ingesting as a medicine or supplement is indeed a dose. I'm also pretty sure that this is true whether the substance being taken in such a way is naturally or artificially sourced.

That your body produces something doesn't necessarily make it safe in high doses ... your stomach produces hydrochloric acid, for instance, but I wouldn't recommend taking it in doses of any size, much less high doses...

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Originally Posted by pressure

Everyone produces melatonin in their head.

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while conspiracy theories are grenerally 100% in the head

Most melatonin is in the gut:
Distribution, function and physiological role of melatonin in the lower gut
"
at any time of the day or night, the gut contains at least 400 times more melatonin than the pineal gland, once again emphasizing the functional importance of melatonin in the gut
"

"with the highest levels in the rectum"

but in defense of the theories of others: some people seem to have hundreds of times the levels of things from that portion of the lowest intestines in their heads :)