Hey all, I just had a quick question that may hopefully spur some healthy discussion below. This might be the wrong place for a question like this, but hopefully the mods will move it to the right place if that is the case. Anyways, I am well of aware of what LD's, OBE's and Astral Projections are, but was just wondering what makes them different from each other. Thanks!
LD's are purely imaginary and occur entirely inside your brain
OBE's are purely imaginary and occur entirely inside your brain which is inside your body
Astral Projections are purely imaginary and occur entirely inside your brain
In the first case your brain is tricking you into thinking it is reality, and you are tricking your brain by knowing it is a dream
In the other two cases you have sided with your brain and are fooling yourself :)
Hahaha... Oh man what a great reply Cooley. This is sure to anger some people, teehee.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cooleymd
Yeah (!!!)Quote:
Originally Posted by RavenOfShadow
:uhm:
:mad:
:evil: .. :evil: .. :evil:
:bslap: :bslap: :bslap:
Words fail Me.
End of thread ! :rolllaugh:
Hi Therome,
It depends on who you ask. The general consensus is that LD is a phenomenon occurring purely in the space of the mind, and is heavily tied to observable physiological processes.
OBE, according to those who believe in it, is when the consciousness is projected from the body, but still exists in what is referred to as the "real-time zone," or the layer of existence between what we experience daily, and the Astral plane. AP takes place on the Astral plane.
However, many materialists would argue that all of it is LD (which I believe is what Cooley is suggesting).
Sorry to be a stick in the mud, but wanted to make sure OP got question answered.
Let the joking recommence :)
Okay, thanks for clearing this up for me. Seems like the topic is up for debate by some people out there, but I'll just stick with having LD's :P
I've had "AP's/OBE's" where I experience the sleep paralysis, vibrations and exiting the body but it's just like a lucid dream or false awakening after that. I could touch things, turn the lights on, open doors. My house was never identical to what it really is like, yet I still went through the experience of leaving my body. This really makes me question AP'ing/OBE'ing so even though I believe I've done it (quite a few times) I'm still on the fence about it.
Spoiler for continued rant:
In 1970 mum read interesting things to me about Astral Travelling (OoBE). The author wrote that very deep physical relaxation is essential before one can get out of the body, consciously. He said it takes a few years of practicing full, deep, relaxing of all muscles before one will succeed in getting out of the body, at will. The slightest tension will ruin a conscious exit.
But years of practicing deep, muscular, relaxation wont cut it, untill one also develops the virtue of real "patience". Because geting out of the body is not really the problem. He wrote that everyone gets out of the body during deep sleep.
What really counts is coming back to the body before the body demands that you come back. He said that most folk will not, voluntarily, return to their heavy, dark, smelly, cold, physical body. We all stay freeeeee as long as possible.
When the body is disturbed by a noise, smell, lights or need to go to the loo, it yanks on the silver-cord. And we are reeled-in, kicking and screaming. We don't wanna come back from the nice higher Astral Planes and all our old friends.
When the astral body crashes into the physical body the psychic-shock obliterates the true memories and we are left with spicks-and-specks of what really happened, and weird dreams.
He wrote that it takes the "supreme discipline" of deciding to leave the heavenly, higher planes, in plenty of time, to return to the physical body, then slowly-and-gently re-enter that cold, heavy, smelly lump-of-flesh, and rise-smoothly, to full waking consciousness.
Even after years of practicing daily, deep, physical relaxation and years of returning back to the sad, loneliness, of physical existance, in the cold, heavy, smelly body in plenty of time to re-enter it with undisturbed memory, one can still experience a bad re-entry. And have no true memory of where you went and what happened.
The re-entry is far more important than the exit.
Nightmares are due to clumsy "crash-landings".
I've been watching an astral projection tutorial on YouTube which stated that you should fully relax and focus on your breath when going to sleep to eventually induce an ap.
The WILD thread in the "Induction Methods and Techniques" sections states that we shouldn't try to WILD when going to sleep.
Both techniques seem to work,so I am really wondering about the difference here,too.
The difference between WILD and AP is that in WILD you use your hypnagogic imagery to enter a lucid dream by focusing on creating the scenery before your eyes. With AP you focus on the sensations and try to feel your astral body, then gradually lift your astral body out of your physical body. It's a very fine line between the two so I can see why people would say AP is the same as lucid dreaming.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kain
The only way to conclude that AP is real and that the so called astral body exists is to start from the hypothesis that it is real.
All of this is a matter of belief.
OBE/AP looks like, feels like, happens from the same physiological phenomenons as when you fall asleep while staying conscious.
Don't you guys understand that the best explaination is that we are talking about same kind of dreamlike phenomenon?
Cooleymd is Right, those who believe that their mind really goes outside of their real body are tricked by their brain
Lets not be too hasty and give credit where credit is do KAAN
I say we give them one third credit
They are not out of their bodies
They are not out of their brains
but...
They are out of their minds :)
as quoted here from wiki:
Robert Todd Carroll writes that the main evidence to support claims of astral travel is anecdotal and comes "in the form of testimonials of those who claim to have experienced being out of their bodies when they may have been out of their minds."