Violently shaken awake by an entity!?

Hello all.

Last night I was having a somewhat Lucid Dream, I wasn't aware that I was dreaming yet I could remember some vague moments of the dream.

Anyway the dream was somewhat Nightmare orientated. The storyline was that I was trying to sleep in a dark and industrial room, and there was a disturbing eerie alarm that stopped me from sleeping.

I was on some kind of chat room with my friends, and we were all texting about how we will at some point fall asleep.

I then saw a man wearing a cloak. He was in my bed and he said something like "just get some rest, come on" So I immediatly layed down on my pillow and closed my eyes.

The second I did this, the man grabbed my shoulders and violently started shaking me awake. I suspected it was sleep paralysis, so I used a technique for getting out of it which works almost all of the time. (Make sure your mouth is open and snore over and over again until you can move out of it.)

The man shaking me had a ghastly and horrifying presence about him, I just wondered what everyone thinks of this. Possibly hypnogogic/hypnopompic imagery?

Would love to hear your thoughts.

Kindest regards.

Yeah it fits in with many accounts I've read about.

I've never seen anyone whilst going through the transition to a Lucid myself but have felt a dark presence a few times, I usually just hear whispering, occasionally screaming in my ears and feel like I'm lifting up into the air end over end, once I felt like I'd fell through my bed and something grabbed my ankle, pulling me across the floor.

There are accounts dating back to Medieval times about the Old Hag which sounds pretty similar to your experience, a dark figure who would sit on people's chests and hold them down.

A lot of people on here say you only get SP if you have a medical condition but I'd never had SP once before I started LDing, since I started a few years ago though I've had pretty classic symptoms of it many times!

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Originally Posted by Mr0Blonde

Yeah it fits in with many accounts I've read about.

I've never seen anyone whilst going through the transition to a Lucid myself but have felt a dark presence a few times, I usually just hear whispering, occasionally screaming in my ears and feel like I'm lifting up into the air end over end, once I felt like I'd fell through my bed and something grabbed my ankle, pulling me across the floor.

There are accounts dating back to Medieval times about the Old Hag which sounds pretty similar to your experience, a dark figure who would sit on people's chests and hold them down.

A lot of people on here say you only get SP if you have a medical condition but I'd never had SP once before I started LDing, since I started a few years ago though I've had pretty classic symptoms of it many times!

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I've known it as being hag ridden. That sounds scary about being dragged across the floor, any visuals along with this?

Medical conditions can influence SP definitely, as well as mental illnesses. I think SP is most scary when you wake up to it, as most of the time you're unaware and unconscious then suddenly you'll be attacked out of no where... the element of shock makes it a lot more severe on top of that. Really hope I don't experience it again.

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Originally Posted by Mr0Blonde

A lot of people on here say you only get SP if you have a medical condition but I'd never had SP once before I started LDing, since I started a few years ago though I've had pretty classic symptoms of it many times!

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This is because Sleep Paralysis actually is a medical condition. The experience that everyone calls "Sleep Paralysis" is actually what is known as REM Atonia, a normal part of everyone's sleep process where your muscles essentially shut down, preventing you from moving and acting out your dreams. Usually your mind is already asleep when it happens, but sometimes when WILDing or when waking up too fast, your mind is awake while your body is still asleep. This is what is mistakenly called "Sleep Paralysis" and what unfortunately scares a lot of people away from lucid dreaming. You can find more on this thread: http://www.dreamviews.com/wake-initi...explained.html

Personally, I've had REM Atonia twice while WILDing, and only once have I had a semi-scary experience. A dark haired woman was standing beside my bed looking down at me. I was scared for about 3 seconds until I realized that I was dreaming, after which she disappeared and I went on with my lucid for a bit. So basically, if you learn to recognize these scary experiences as dreams, there's no way they can hurt you when you become lucid.

In your case, however, it sounds like either a dream or very vivid hypnopompic imagery. It fits with the nightmare theme you were already having in the dream, so it makes sense that it would carry over to the imagery while you're still drowsy as you're waking up. But I do agree, it is worst when it happens upon waking up as opposed to as you're falling asleep, since the logic portion of your brain doesn't have time enough to fully kick in before it happens to tell you it's not real.

AjnaFX.

No funnily enough it wasn't actually scary.
I didn't have any visuals but when I opened my eyes and got up, I was getting off the ground on my landing outside my room where I'd felt like I was pulled too.

I never really got scared getting into a Lucid, even in the early days as I was just excited to know I'm getting in! Even now I still get excited and I get Lucid all the time.

The only time I get a little freaked out is when I hear the screaming in my ears lol, but I haven't seen an actual physical presence so far so been lucky, I would imagine that being pretty freaky given the realism of the hallucinations.




Spellbee2.


From what I've read about SP symptoms, they match what I get when I go through WILD the vast majority of the time, if that's REM Atonia how could anyone ever be diagnosed with SP if they feel exactly the same?

Wouldn't it all just be put down to REM Atonia if that's a perfectly normal everyday thing, rather than SP? Or is there some defining deference I'm missing?

Maybe my wording could've been better. The process of REM atonia happens every night, but being conscious during REM atonia is rare for normal sleepers (except during WILD or other rare occurrences). True Sleep Paralysis, however, is the medical disorder where the REM atonia can take longer to wear off, which makes this paralyzing experience happen fairly often, anywhere from once a week to almost every night.

The symptoms are the same, yes, hence the name confusion. But the main difference between actual SP and what many people call SP is the rate of occurrence.

To say it more simply, REM atonia is being conscious of the paralyzed body during REM sleep (before any dream is formed, or after it ended, or during a transition between two dreams.
The paralysis is 100% normal during any REM sleep stage.
(Being conscious of) REM atonia is rare but more frequent than actual SP.


Actual SP is a sleep disorder, it consists in being paralyzed outside of a REM sleep.
So you are awake but paralyzed.
It is very rare, and most of the case it happens when you are awoken, (hypnopompic).
More rarely before you enter REM stage.

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Originally Posted by Kaan

To say it more simply, REM atonia is being conscious of the paralyzed body during REM sleep (before any dream is formed, or after it ended, or during a transition between two dreams.
The paralysis is 100% normal during any REM sleep stage.
(Being conscious of) REM atonia is rare but more frequent than actual SP.


Actual SP is a sleep disorder, it consists in being paralyzed outside of a REM sleep.
So you are awake but paralyzed.
It is very rare, and most of the case it happens when you are awoken, (hypnopompic).
More rarely before you enter REM stage.

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Ah I see, so the actual paralysis that stops us from acting out dreams is called REM Atonia, and SP is a medical condition in which the REM Atonia is active for too long, thus resulting in frequent episodes?

The SP as a sleep disorder is not exactly "a medical condition in which the REM Atonia is active for too long" because when it happens, you are not in REM sleep (it happens when REM sleep is over, or not yet there), we could rather call it a N-REM atonia.

But yes, it's like the REM atonia is not well synchronized with REM sleep.

what do ya mean by "thus resulting in frequent episodes?" ?

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Originally Posted by Kaan

The SP as a sleep disorder is not exactly "a medical condition in which the REM Atonia is active for too long" because when it happens, you are not in REM sleep (it happens when REM sleep is over, or not yet there), we could rather call it a N-REM atonia.

But yes, it's like the REM atonia is not well synchronized with REM sleep.

what do ya mean by "thus resulting in frequent episodes?" ?

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What I mean is, if the muscle atonia usually stays active for too long or stays active when it shouldn't be, (e.g when you wake up and your body is still asleep) you are likely to experience SP more often because it's out of sync. make sense? Basically the fact that the communication between your body and mind is out of sync means you have a greater chance of experiencing sleep paralysis. You have a greater chance of the muscle paralysis still being active when you wake up.

It is not about communication between the "mind" and the "body" (this is the Lucidity101's kind of claims), it is just that if you suffer from the sleep disorder called "Sleep Paralysis", this will happen sometimes: you will find yourself paralyzed for a certain amount of time while being awake (mind and body).
That's all.
you are paralyzed while awake.

But you can think that you are living a SP, while you are just being conscious of the normal REM atonia (this is what generally happen to people).
I guess the main difference is that you can exit a REM atonia as easily as you can exit a Dream, cause you are just in a normal REM sleep (without formed Dream at this moment, but REM sleep anyway).

I don't see the link with experiencing SP more often.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kaan

It is not about communication between the "mind" and the "body" (this is the Lucidity101's kind of claims), it is just that if you suffer from the sleep disorder called "Sleep Paralysis", this will happen sometimes: you will find yourself paralyzed for a certain amount of time while being awake (mind and body).
That's all.
you are paralyzed while awake.

But you can think that you are living a SP, while you are just being conscious of the normal REM atonia (this is what generally happen to people).
I guess the main difference is that you can exit a REM atonia as easily as you can exit a Dream, cause you are just in a normal REM sleep (without formed Dream at this moment, but REM sleep anyway).

I don't see the link with experiencing SP more often.

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Sorry, could you explain this clearer? I don't understand how you can be paralyzed while you're awake both mind and body. If you're paralyzed then your body is still sleeping? or if your body is awake then the paralysis is no longer in affect?

And isn't REM Atonia just a natural defence mechanism that stops us from acting out our dreams?

I may have got this all wrong. I got told by a YouTuber called GizEdwards that Sleep Paralysis occurs when the mind wakes up before the body does, due to REM Atonia staying active when the mind wakes up. He also said that naturally when we fall asleep the mind falls asleep before the body. And the reverse of this is what I know as Sleep Paralysis. And how you induce sleep paralysis (for WILD) is by tricking your mind into thinking your body is asleep via not responding to a roll over signal. (After waking up from sleep.)

The link between experiencing sleep paralysis more often is very simple. You're more likely to experience Sleep Paralysis if for some reason your REM Atonia stays active for longer than it should be. Because then you have a better chance of waking up while your body is under the muscle paralysis.

My understanding of Sleep Paralysis is consciously experiencing the REM Atonia while awake and aware, your body is still asleep because of the REM Atonia but mindfully you're awake and conscious. Is that not correct?

Correct me if I am wrong, please.

Theories claiming that the need for moving and changing your body position is a signal from the "mind" to see if the body is ready to sleep are not based on scientific facts.
Techniques based on this theories work anyway because it forces you to stay perfectly immobile, this forced immobility is probably the very strong anchor that keeps you mind focused while you body is crossing N-REM stages relaxed enough, and the fact that you don't move at all doesn't delays the sleep onset, contrary to when you move and change position.

This being said, you are not wrong on your understanding about what is SP vs Rem Atonia.
A Rem Atonia being so long that it continues even if you are awoken looses it's "REM atonia"'s name and has to be called SP.
if "REM atonia" happens before your brain and whole body enter in REM sleep, then it's not a normal REM atonia, it's SP as well.

Also, you can be sleeping, mind and body, while being still conscious.
"Sleeping mind" or let's say "sleeping brain" doesn't necessary means that you are unconscious.
If you want to WILD (techniques based on so called SP are WILD techniques) you have to be conscious during at least the N-REM stage that just precedes the REM stage.
That is what focusing on the total immobility of the body allows you: to be conscious during the N-REM stages that precede the incoming REM stage.

Maybe this is what makes you confused: yes you can be sleeping (mind and body) but conscious.

Ah, okay thank you mate I see what you're saying now.