Going to other dreams

Hi there :-)


I have a question for lucid dreamers. As far as i understand, the connection between so called 'obe' etc and lucid dreams is very close, correct?


So, I have one friend who says I should research for myself how lucid dreams etc work - ie, we converse about it but I'm informed it is mostly better to discover things for myself. (said with a smile).

Thing is, I have recently had many many dreams involving this person (and another mutual friend also a lifetime lucid dreamer)

So, rather than rely on their opinions, I am seeking some neutral opinions and research!

Is it possible that as lucid/obe'rs, it is possible to say, meet me or the subconscious greater me, converse interact and so on, maybe for hours and all sorts of marvelous beneficial info imparted etc etc, which I then simply recall as a dream?? (albeit a curious one!)

At one way, we are actually meeting in the dream/lucid dream, as I understand, correct?

Also, then considering the approach of self-monitoring, I guess the religious types would say "mindfulness" during the day, ie, the potency of thought and feeling to affect dreams, is it then possible even though non lucid, that I also could interact, in a more proficient way, to the lucid observer? (rather than a staggering drunk). Ie the intent.

If you're asking if we can meet actual people in your dreams, the answer is no. No matter how much we wish it, all of the DCs we meet are only real in our heads. You can't communicate with other people in the waking world through dreaming.

Man, you have such a round about way of asking things. It is okay to be more straight forward. :P
Welcome to DV!

Anyways, there have been reports about "shared dreaming" and I think that most people that have lucid dream have at one time thought that they were in a shared dream, but there is no proof. So scientifically speaking, there isn't anything to say that dreams are anything but inside your head and not other people. If you want to share info with other people, it is 100 times easier to just call them up. :P People that do say that they shared dream (whether you believe them or not) don't actually have the "same dream" but "Similar dreams" and they often try things like sharing information in order to test results (I'll tell you a word while we sleep, when you wake up you tell me what it is), and results for such things have varied.

It is really up to you, there is nothing scientific about it, but I think that it might be a little true and have had "similar experiences" with people I know, but nothing to actually say one way or another. I would like it to be true, but meh... who knows?

I also don't think that trying this while non lucid would be productive as it is something that people that get lucid all the time have troubles doing. Even if a person shows up in a dream, it is probably going to be your unconscious projection of them (see inception hahahaha) and not actually them.

An OBE is just the name given to the experience of being outside your body, possibly looking on your body from outside, but it's really just that feeling of being disconnected from your body.
You can have an OBE from within a lucid dream, but they are very different things really.
You can also have an OBE as a separate body, i.e. it's like another you looking down on yourself, or you can be like a detached consciousness that has no body.
Some people attach mystical dimensions to OBE's, but I don't.

Yes your answers clarify what I have heard. I have heard of shared dreams. Though regarding 'meeting people'. I also have friends who have done this 'flying'/dreaming whatever you name it, since all their lives and it does seem to me that it is possible to 'meet' aspects of other people as a thoughtform. Whether or not the other person is aware of it. Granted, dreams are 'all in our heads' still, I think there is a connective aspect somewhere along the line. I think whether or not someone is in your dream or not and how aware of it they are may depend on how sensitive they are in waking life to thoughts/feelings. For example, I think of something personal concerning my brother, that night he has a dream with me giving him an object. He then understands the meaning or message of his dream. It is his receptivity and personal perception to the 'thought' that in turn creates the 'dream'. This is what I mean by meeting people in dreams :-)

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Originally Posted by Him

If you're asking if we can meet actual people in your dreams, the answer is no. No matter how much we wish it, all of the DCs we meet are only real in our heads. You can't communicate with other people in the waking world through dreaming.

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well, 'all in our heads' it is ALL there I guess - Of course, I dont mean actual actual people, I mean, on a subconcious level we are ALL connected, therefore, 'meeting' people in dreams, eg: family members, if we understand the dream correctly, we are actually interacting with a much deeper and to me, more significant part of that person, compared to 'waking life', which communication is mostly filled by technicalities and practicalities, info required for the mostly mundane and superfical life, such as it has become

What I meant is that you're only communicating with your interpretation of that person. It isn't actually that person, they only act the way you would think they would react. It's not them or any part of them, just the idea of who they are/were that lives in you

I agree with him^^.

I can tell by your speech that you are very into metaphysical ideas, but the best way that we talk and communicate with others is on the physical level. I am sorry that your life is mundane and superficial, I love dreams, and things similar, but communication with people and the relationships that are there are extremely important and the things we do with and for others are the only things that will outlast us. My favorite philosophical book so far is "meditations on first philosophy" by René Descartes, because I feel like he does a good way of describing metaphysical thoughts and showing why the physical is still more important.

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Originally Posted by Sensei

I agree with him^^.

I can tell by your speech that you are very into metaphysical ideas, but the best way that we talk and communicate with others is on the physical level. I am sorry that your life is mundane and superficial, I love dreams, and things similar, but communication with people and the relationships that are there are extremely important and the things we do with and for others are the only things that will outlast us. My favorite philosophical book so far is "meditations on first philosophy" by René Descartes, because I feel like he does a good way of describing metaphysical thoughts and showing why the physical is still more important.

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Indeed, physicality must be important of course, there must be a reason why we are physical and we communicate in this way that we seem used to. My point is, simply to create some discussion around this point. It seems to me, we often communicate in many ways, not just words.

I did not say my life is superfical and mundane. I am saying life in general, is the daily situation for the vast majority. The daily thoughts regarding work, buying food and so on. As much as we are indoctrinated to distract ourselves from ourselves. I think it is important to have a good sense of humour with all this.

My point was also, the importance in understanding 'thought' and where it comes from, whether it is conditioned (superfical) or from your less conditioned self, therefore deeper.

People, especially nowdays more and more, look for handy quick answers and distraction, entertainment, which is also what I mean by superfical - and therefore pay little attention to their thought, their real person and feelings which have much more depth.

Thought I think is important in understanding dreams. If you are more aware of your thoughts, your motivations, words, actions, in the daily life, then I think it is possible to understand your unconditioned thoughts and feelings, therefore dreams also - and vice versa.

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Originally Posted by Him

What I meant is that you're only communicating with your interpretation of that person. It isn't actually that person, they only act the way you would think they would react. It's not them or any part of them, just the idea of who they are/were that lives in you

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Sure - but if it is considered that as some say, ALL is MIND - therefore, all even 'waking' life is an interpretation? We dream of eachother in waking life also, surely?

We communicate with ideas and dreams are also ideas? Seems to me there are quite a few accounts of people have communicated with all sorts of life in dreams but also with 'people' which is then validated.

Like in life, if I walk into town and see someone I know across the road and wave. Then next day the converstation might be something like "oh I saw you on so and so street yesterday!" Then they say, "I saw you also!"

Then in dreams, these experiences also seem apparent? So the waking life is also 'ideas' of people? :-) People 'see eachother' in dreams. People share the same (possibly deeper) thoughts and ideas which is represented in dreams by the subconscious in way(s) that may be understood symbolically.

Then where do these 'ideas' come from in a dream? Ideas are from thought? Where is the thought and the idea from? It must be a combination of the feelings and impressions we pick up of people/places and also how we translate them?

But there has to be some commonalities somewhere along the line?

How is it possible to explain experiences where people had the same or similar dream? (seems quite a common experience) Or, one lucid dreams of one person who is not lucid dreaming, then they either recall a vague dream or not at all - but still there appears some kind of communication picked up by the subconscious, I believe as Robert Waggoner had an example of this? So there is some kind of communication, whether or not the scenery and language of dreams represent this according to our own minds.

I think by listening to your subconcious you can learn alot even about other people
for example if you went out for coffee with a friend and she said ' oh everything is great and life is awesome', at the same time she is fidgeting with her phone or biting her nails, when you are awake maybe you won't catch on to anything but when you sleep you dream she is super agitated about something because your subconcious was telling you something.

Also i had lots of dreams where my friends are telling me something, and when i later called them up they told me something special was happening in there lives, even when we weren't in the same country and hadn't spoken for a long time, also no facebook. the dream wasn't like oh i have a new green pen, but a super strong emotion that i couldn't ignore, so if you turn on your inner blue tooth and really listening you will pick up new info :-)

You explain very well (and in a better simpler way) what I express and thanks for that example you give. It is a good explanation of the subconscious connections. The way in waking life, we communicate subconcious, often it is not always about words, unless it is some practical info we need. There is much communication with who we are I guess. The saying, "a picture tells a thousand words". The subconscious creates these images, stories, I guess as a means of understanding what we pick up at a deeper way.

Also with emotion: I also notice this very much. Sometimes I might not remember all a dream if at all but I know from the strong feeling on waking what may have been happening, of course with dream remembrance couple with a waking feeling, well it only makes it even more striking and obvious. What I do notice, at least for myself, is that very rapidly during the day, all sorts of mental conditioning, daily life nonsense, quickly take hold and if not attentive, this really can over analyse the feeling or indeed, lose the connection with that subconcious thoughtfeelingdream, which I think is where and what we really are is represented, not the socially conditioned persona.

. . . and - re: the dreaming of someone you have not spoken to, no fb etc, that surely is anecdotal evidence of some kind of subconcious connection between people that is expressed through dreams, whether self interpreted or not.

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Originally Posted by Beluga

. . . and - re: the dreaming of someone you have not spoken to, no fb etc, that surely is anecdotal evidence of some kind of subconcious connection between people that is expressed through dreams, whether self interpreted or not.

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No, it's not any kind of evidence.
By all means go and look for some real evidence, but without it all you have is a belief.
If I was being kind it could be called a hypothesis (at a stretch).

I'm not averse to the idea of some kind of basic shared dreaming between two people in the same room, where some low level of conscious awareness of each other could be the seed for some common dream theme, but beyond that I would be very skeptical.

The subconscious and lucid dreaming are mysterious and wonderful enough without having to add a paranormal dimension.

Anecdotal means it is not fullpoof, tangible evidence, it means it is the word of peoples experiences. :-)

I'm gonna put my personnal experience here about that thread.
I think there is a huge gap between shared dreams and interact in someone's dream. You can't share a dream with someone it's impossible because his mind is not your mind. However, i don't know how or why, but you can interact in someone's dream.
I explain myself: One night, i met a friend on my dream for no apparent reasons. I gave her a feather to make her fly because we had to leave the place we were. On the morning, she text me FIRST that she was flying on her dream for the first time in her life because someone gave her the power to do it. She wasn't able to identify the giver (blurred) but i know it was me.
So, from there, you can interact in someone's dream, but how? That's the real question. I wasn't able to reproduct such a thing in a conscious way. It seems that this is only one-sided.

Hope it was helpful :).

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Originally Posted by Beluga

Anecdotal means it is not fullpoof, tangible evidence, it means it is the word of peoples experiences. :-)

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Sure, but it's not "evidence".

I have no problem if you want to believe, but just don't try and make out that there is any basis for it being fact. It's a bit like urban myths. Most if then are just that - myths.

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Originally Posted by Marabou

I'm gonna put my personnal experience here about that thread.
I think there is a huge gap between shared dreams and interact in someone's dream. You can't share a dream with someone it's impossible because his mind is not your mind. However, i don't know how or why, but you can interact in someone's dream.
I explain myself: One night, i met a friend on my dream for no apparent reasons. I gave her a feather to make her fly because we had to leave the place we were. On the morning, she text me FIRST that she was flying on her dream for the first time in her life because someone gave her the power to do it. She wasn't able to identify the giver (blurred) but i know it was me.
So, from there, you can interact in someone's dream, but how? That's the real question. I wasn't able to reproduct such a thing in a conscious way. It seems that this is only one-sided.

Hope it was helpful :).

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A more plausible explanation for that is coincidence. We say, "what are the chances of that? ", but actually loads of coincidences happen that are unremarkable, but we don't see them because they are ordinary. It's only the more surprising ones that we notice, but that doesn't make them linked.
I'm not saying absolutely 100% that there is no connection there, but all you have is a coincidence, which doesn't prove anything.
If there really is a link, come up with a double blind trial that proves the link, then go and make lots of money ; -)

What are you saying is paranormal? The ability too connect to other humans, or the ability to be aware of that connection throughout the night while dreaming?
thousands of peoples experiences of communicating through dreams should count for something or maybe you think everybody is lying?

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Originally Posted by oneironautics

What are you saying is paranormal? The ability too connect to other humans, or the ability to be aware of that connection throughout the night while dreaming?
thousands of peoples experiences of communicating through dreams should count for something or maybe you think everybody is lying?

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Yes, I think its nothing 'paranormal' - dreams are perfectly normal, if a person is used to studying dreams, or has a natural ability to, otherwise for some, then they can be tricky to discern - which can be frustrating! :-)

Exactly, thousands of people seem to understand interaction in the subconscious through dreams as perfectly normal and as you say, why would people make it up!

Also, if you know people personally who understand this, experience and understand the nature and language of their dreams, then they are relaxed about understanding the images, symbology etc and who or what they interact with.

Seems to me, dreams can reveal a much deeper level of communication between people, or otherwise - and our own subconscious at the same time, its just a case of recognising it.

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Originally Posted by Marabou

I'm gonna put my personnal experience here about that thread.
I think there is a huge gap between shared dreams and interact in someone's dream. You can't share a dream with someone it's impossible because his mind is not your mind. However, i don't know how or why, but you can interact in someone's dream.
I explain myself: One night, i met a friend on my dream for no apparent reasons. I gave her a feather to make her fly because we had to leave the place we were. On the morning, she text me FIRST that she was flying on her dream for the first time in her life because someone gave her the power to do it. She wasn't able to identify the giver (blurred) but i know it was me.
So, from there, you can interact in someone's dream, but how? That's the real question. I wasn't able to reproduct such a thing in a conscious way. It seems that this is only one-sided.

Hope it was helpful :).

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It's a good explanation - it makes sense to me, our mind is our mind, it seems possible however, to create whether through imagination or in dreaming, a symbolic image that may be realised as having some connection with another person. So in that way, it is like the two minds are receptive, or able to send/receive thoughts from the subconscious via dreams?

I guess then it may be harder in our rational thinking mind to discern what has been from someone, or what is an interpretation of that, or whether the dream is us 'speaking' or 'listening' - or both!??

I guess of course, things can be hard to prove, in a scientific way, or to prove undoubtedly. That said, many ideas, theories or even hunches and so on have later turned into full scientifically proven fact.

Anecdotal evidence I think is important when investigating any claims or ideas. Especially, if you consider that those accounts may even come from people close to you, or who you trust, then I think on a personal level, it would be hard to refute, even if it creates your own ideas on things. Opinions are also just that of course.

Also, I think something like this must be quite hard to 'prove' by its nature. So, until that is possible, we can only consider what we know or understand to our abilities from others and their or our own experiences, which will inevitably have a lot to do with 'feeling', which it seems is a big aspect of the dreamworld in any case . . .

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Originally Posted by Beluga

I guess of course, things can be hard to prove, in a scientific way, or to prove undoubtedly. That said, many ideas, theories or even hunches and so on have later turned into full scientifically proven fact.

Anecdotal evidence I think is important when investigating any claims or ideas. Especially, if you consider that those accounts may even come from people close to you, or who you trust, then I think on a personal level, it would be hard to refute, even if it creates your own ideas on things. Opinions are also just that of course.

Also, I think something like this must be quite hard to 'prove' by its nature. So, until that is possible, we can only consider what we know or understand to our abilities from others and their or our own experiences, which will inevitably have a lot to do with 'feeling', which it seems is a big aspect of the dreamworld in any case . . .

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As I said before, I have no problem if you want to believe that. The only problem with what you are saying is that it is quite a common approach, that is, people start believing urban myths because they don't apply the scientific method. It can be harmful because people get a skewed view of what is "real" and what is anecdote.
I would only ask that you consider what I would call a "passive skeptical" view of such things, in other words, just because you see or hear that something is "true" don't believe it until you have some proof.

I don't agree with what you say that, "something like this must be quite hard to 'prove' by its nature". I'm not saying that you personally have to prove it, but that we should all be skeptical until something is proven.
If we pass around urban myths using language that suggests they are the truth, people believe they are true simply by weight of numbers.

Until I am shown something concrete, I believe that shared dreaming does not happen. I don't think that it probably does and that it's just that noone has proved it yet.
That goes for any paranormal claim. Pasive skeptical is to generally think that it is not real.

"I guess of course, things can be hard to prove, in a scientific way, or to prove undoubtedly". Not so. If the hypothesis can be tested under scientific conditions, and proves to work in repeatable double-blind trials, it is proven.

"That said, many ideas, theories or even hunches and so on have later turned into full scientifically proven fact.". Yes but only after rigorous scientific proof. Many hunches are plain wrong!

Like i said earlier, shared dreams are actually just impossible because we all got a specific, different mind from one another. However to explain the situations, that happened without control on it in any way, maybe feelings can create a bridge between two people's mind and make them dream of the other. Idk, it's hard to explain. I got a twin and sometimes we got the same exact dream in the same night without being close to each other, or when we were at school we had the same ideas at the same time, the same mistakes in some exams etc without being in the same class (No link with dreams but i try to demonstrate my thoughts). There is obviously something we don't understand: A connection between minds, but actually it's impossible to proove because it's impossible to do this on command. It's just random. Maybe one day some will be able to do it live.
So i agree with Golden in some ways but with Beluga too. We are all right anyway. Science's just not that far!

I agree that it is good to keep a questioning mind or 'skeptical' and keep a level headed approach. I also do not want to land on the side of 'belief' which when entrenched, just will dismiss other points. I understand that also.

I agree that scienftic tests prove many things, I just mean that the many aspects of the subject of dreams or the unconscious seems hard to prove, or to design a suitable test as proof - but I am not a scientist

I am not so much (at the moment) thinking of 'proof' I guess. I am curious about peoples personal experiences, whether it may tally with my own or people I know.

Peoples experiences are also their own perspectives. Though knowing people personally who are much more adept at the 'dreaming' world(s) than myself, then this is what I go on primarily, then there are the researchers and so on who make their own studies or write books, then forums like this where people share their own experiences, which all make a fascinating mix.

If you consider that many consider life itself to be an aspect of 'dream' or a dream in of itself, then (logically) we are all characters in our/a dream . . .

Whether we create our perceptions of others from our own mind . . .conditioned or less so . . .

It seems as if, what we call 'dream' is a more immediate state of 'dream' or unconscious, which researchers seem to agree is just as valid.

Then in a dream, it seems fascinating to consider that not only are we delving into the scenery our own personal psyche but also the subconscious not only of ourselves but a whole range of subconscious 'life', the psyche and information it has received - and so it seems to make sense that that might include the subconscious aspects of others, or our perspective or interpretation of them, lf you consider that we may well be in constant interaction with many things at a subconscious level.

Jung coined the phrase, 'the collective unconscious' . . . ?

If you watch any interviews with his assistant, Mary Louise Von-Franz, I think she states that she had studied over 18000 accounts of dreams and I don't think had a problem accepting 'shared dreams' as a reality, much the same for precognitive, or 'telepathic' dreams.

That's not to mention the reams and reams of accounts of 'dreams' even used as a method of decision making in communities 1000s of years back, or even of communication . . . ? I'd hazard a guess, without wanting to go out on too much of a limb, that they did not need science to prove it, they just 'knew.' I guess also, compared to our modern world (dream!) that people back then had much more discernment and understanding of what was what in dreams - ie: connection and understanding of the subconscious and dreams.

I just think these are interesting topics to consider or discuss. :-)