Thread: Passive Lucidity

I have both, but the last few years I have often been very passive. I am somewhat aware during at least half my dreams (30+ years intense practice) and it is only once in a while that I will pull full consciousness on purpose and go about adventuring. Mostly I just feel thankful that my nights are so interesting. I also do not really remember much from my passive lucids. I would recall more if I made the effort, but I am content. It can be fun to light heartedly witness the strange dramas my brain comes up with. I used to control almost every aspect of the dream, until I realized in many ways it was no longer dreaming and just became creating images and sensations. Taking a passive role in the process lets me see the odd stuff a normal uncontrolled dream has while still knowing it is a dream.

Hey sivason......

I can't help but smile at the observation that you with 30+ years of intense practice and me with 71+ days of intense practice find ourselves on very similar places on the lucid path.

Your post brings in some interesting points and questions which I need to ponder before commenting on. Love to hear what others have to say about this first.

i think there is a lesson here, though, especially for folks like me who have just begun the journey and may be meeting with some frustration as they search for their own lucid key. We don't need to be leaping over tall building with a single bound just yet to experience the wonders of this discipline. There are successes to be found every night, at every level of experience. Look for them in the morning and hold them close during the day.

Sleep well....and dream.

It's been my experience that "going with the flow" of the dream will keep the dream going for longer, whereas taking action tends to destabilize the dream, and end it early. My theory is that the dream-maker, which I believe is an unconscious part of our selves, struggles to keep up creating the dream, if we (our conscious selves) try to meddle too much with the dream.

What is interesting is that whilst most actions will tend to bring about full awakeness, some very specific actions tend to bring on transitions into other non-physical realms. Whether these are dreams (which many would say), or astral projections (which I would say), is anyone's guess, but examples of such actions (for me) are spinning around relatively quickly, or shouting "Ommmmmmm!" at the top of my dream lungs.

Generally I try to enter these transitions fairly often (they also happen during non-lucid dreams), and the consequences are always interesting and memorable. But taking no action at all, other than steering my attention, mostly leads to highly enjoyable and very long lucids. Memory of them afterwards tends to be rather spotty, however, since the dreams are so eventful.

It is interesting that you both mention that your memories of the more passively lucid dreams are less vivid.

I have found the opposite to be the case for me. I am generally experiencing a lot of passively lucid passages in otherwise non-lucid dreams and as the dreams fade from memory during the day, it is those lucid moments that remain vivid. I suppose that may be because this is all still new to me and I am holding tightly to anything lucid.

Originally Posted by lenscaper

...as the dreams fade from memory during the day, it is those lucid moments that remain vivid. I suppose that may be because this is all still new to me and I am holding tightly to anything lucid.

I think that is a bit part of it. I have just eventually taken awesome dreams for granted. I know how to boost my recall, and when doing all the steps I can recall much more. I like that even a cool lucid can now just be accepted and perhaps forgotten at no sense of loss. I think it would be very hard to stay highly focused for years on end.

Originally Posted by sivason

I like that even a cool lucid can now just be accepted and perhaps forgotten at no sense of loss. I think it would be very hard to stay highly focused for years on end.

Once again, observations from your extreme end of the experience spectrum resonate all the way back to folks like me at the beginning of the journey. That sense of loss when a tantalizingly vivid lucid moment slips away can lead to frustration when one so desperately desires success. I am learning to hold on to the small successes and look to the next night for the next opportunity.

And it is also very hard to stay highly focused for weeks on end. I am also learning to allow for the ebb and flow.

I experience something similar. I call it the conscious observer. For me it takes the form of omniscience. In my dreams I am both the actor, and the director. It is like having two streams of consciousness overlapping with each other. As the actor I have no knowledge of the dream itself. There is no lucidity. I simply am. My world is the whole of my knowledge and that knowledge does not extend outside of myself. Everything I know has been predetermined by the script writer. This is how a typical, non lucid dream presents itself. As the director, I am the guiding hand. The omniscient presence which sculpts the dreamscape, watching over, and protecting the self that is unaware of the consciousness beyond its own existence. Although I do not write the script, what I can do is alter the course of events that take place within it. I liken it to an extremely low form of lucidity. It is how the majority of my dreams occur.

The issue with the conscious observer is that although it is entirely lucid of the situation, it lacks the emotional drive necessary to cause it to interfere with the written script. It is aware of its surroundings, It is simply content with being the observer. That isn't to say that the conscious observer is always passive, only that it takes something emotional to drive it out of its state of inaction. For example, my dreams primarily consist of cityscapes devoid of life. This can cause excessive loneliness. The longing for companionship felt by the actor can become echoed in the observer. When this occurs, the conscious observer will begin to stir and force its way through the veil.

Now the veil itself is a membrane that separates the conscious observer from the actor conforming to the script. It manifests as a physical boundary separating the two planes of existence. It isn't until the observer forces itself completely through it that I find myself entirely in a higher state of lucidity. The amount of force necessary to accomplish this can vary greatly. Making simple alterations may only require a lower state of lucidity, meaning that the observer may not need to completely pass through the veil.

Anyway, that is how I experience passive lucidity. In my opinion, I don't believe it has anything to do with age as much as it does with the personality of the dreamer.

On a side note, don't place too much faith in any predefined techniques that you may find. At least not those that are entirely thought based. They are limiting and detrimental at best. Lucid dreaming is an extremely introverted and personal experience. It is a belief based system that is reliant on the restrictions you impose on it. I'm sure that you've heard the question asked, "could god create a stone so heavy that he could not lift it". What should instead be asked is "does god believe that he could create a stone so heavy that he could not lift it". It is all about perspective and what you believe in. The best approach is to find something personal to you.

Originally Posted by Newmoon

the conscious observer.

Having just awakened from an intensely conscious and aware night of dreaming, one where I was able to subtly control every aspect of my dreams while still allowing them to transpire as they would.....your post resonates strongly right now.

I don't believe it has anything to do with age as much as it does with the personality of the dreamer.

I tend to agree, although as we get older, our personalities.....or more importantly, who we are at our core.....tend to influence all facets of our life.

On a side note, don't place too much faith in any predefined techniques that you may find. At least not those that are entirely thought based. They are limiting and detrimental at best. Lucid dreaming is an extremely introverted and personal experience. It is a belief based system that is reliant on the restrictions you impose on it. I'm sure that you've heard the question asked, "could god create a stone so heavy that he could not lift it". What should instead be asked is "does god believe that he could create a stone so heavy that he could not lift it". It is all about perspective and what you believe in. The best approach is to find something personal to you.

Thank you for this. This is very definitely the direction in which I am headed.....and this past night was a bit of a turning point in that.

Just noticed this topic. I think something is lost when we focus on controlling an LD. That doesn't mean it's bad to do so, because something is also gained. But it can also be extremely enlightening and enjoyable just to allow the dream to progress passively, while being aware that it's a dream. Sivason said it well in a post above:

Taking a passive role in the process lets me see the odd stuff a normal uncontrolled dream has while still knowing it is a dream.

Exactly right. Experiencing all that odd stuff is a great way to "use" lucidity. The fact that you're lucid in itself must also subtly alter the odd stuff.

I think what Voldmer said is also a great point:

It's been my experience that "going with the flow" of the dream will keep the dream going for longer, whereas taking action tends to destabilize the dream, and end it early. My theory is that the dream-maker, which I believe is an unconscious part of our selves, struggles to keep up creating the dream, if we (our conscious selves) try to meddle too much with the dream.