A new study
https://www.mdpi.com/2624-5175/2/1/7
A new study
https://www.mdpi.com/2624-5175/2/1/7
Thanks for the article!
It's a relief and also exciting that they found lucid dreaming does not affect sleep quality. It's probably been the most reasonable worry surrounding lucid dreaming.
Yet, I'm still skeptical... Is -feeling refreshed- a good measure of sleep quality? I also feel quite good waking up from lucid dreams, but, again... Waking up from a lucid dream means waking up from a victory. You're also waking up... maybe more awake? In other words, I'm not sure if the positive feelings after a lucid dream are due to good sleep quality or due to happiness post-success and already being in a state of heightened awareness (compared to waking up from a non-lucid night). (Oh, they do mention this is a weakness)
Yet, it still seems interesting that longer sleep correlates with more dream recall and better sleep quality (intuitive), but that better dream recall also correlates with better sleep quality (independent of sleep length)... Because correlation doesn't tell us causality, If I had to guess, I'd say the better sleep quality is what is helping dream recall... and the lucidity. What I mean, is while lucidity might not be helping sleep quality (the activity could be negative to sleep function), lucidity relies on the sleep quality already being good. Just thinking... Then, again, lucid dreams are also associated with nightmares and nightmare-related bad sleep quality so maybe not.
But, if lucid dream helps with nightmares, and otherwise happens during your best quality sleep, seems we don't have to worry much about the consequences of lucid dreaming.
I see they also talked about thin boundaries... Interesting concept. I wonder the validity of that model... I'm curious about it anyway.
It's too bad it's hard to do such a study, but it'd be interesting to see the difference between "higher" lucidity and "lower" lucidity. I think very low lucidity is nightmare inducing because I associate it with noticing things are odd (unsafe) and the dream turning even odder and dangerous.
It's an interesting study and it was nice to see that there's still some on-going research interest on the subject. I read it thoroughly last night and have been thinking about it a bit. Below are some of my thoughts and personal speculation.
From my personal and anecdotal experience, the feeling of being more refreshed in the morning because of having had a lucid dream doesn't feel like it's directly correlated to sleep quality. At what I would say was the peak of my sleep quality in recent years, lucid and pre-lucid moments were far more frequent at that time, sure; but I was on medication that improved my sleep quality massively anyway.
This makes me think that better sleep maybe allows for better lucidity but that better lucidity doesn't necessarily mean more restful sleep or sleep of a better quality. Again anecdotal, but someone I know went through a period of daily lucid nightmares which became a constant source of worry and stress; as a result their subjective experience of sleep quality was much worse. Eventually, because of the lucidity of those nightmares, they could be resolved somewhat easily and sleep returned to normal for my friend... Personally I've never had a single lucid nightmare, they've always been non-lucid, so I can't speak for what the experience of lucid nightmares may be like.
But I personally find that even having some recall of non-lucid dreams can have the same positive effect as having had a lucid dream. Maybe it depends on the overall type of emotions we feel towards dreaming in general? Certainly like the study points out in its discussion section about its subjects, I know I have a (positive) bias on the subject too. Even intense dreams or dreams with many negative emotions are almost somehow positive for me. Before my current attitude towards dreaming, I can't say that it was the same, it probably had a detrimental effect on me overall to have such negative dreams.
Either way, I find this study very interesting. I have often had people comment that my interest in dreaming (and lucid dreaming) is perhaps "not healthy" because my mind is so "active and awake" when sleeping; these people know that I have a poorer-than-average sleep quality, which is caused by my health condition and so I think they see an "active" state through sleep as a threat for my health, even though I have never had this perception myself. For some time now I had suspected that dreaming is essential for actually sleeping well anyway, since it is quite a natural thing that happens, apparently regardless of our memory of it having occurred during the night; I feel that this study relates to that aspect a bit, but indeed, it's too bad that so many factors about dreaming are so subjective - I feel that it makes far too much room for interpretation about what's good and what's bad when really, perhaps we needn't worry so much about dreaming in this way, given that it's about as natural as breathing or conscious thoughts for us as Humans.
Thanks for the info. It's always a pleasure to read new research. However (as occipitalred mentioned) I question what exactly qualifies as 'refreshed'. I do believe 'post success' plays a part. I definitely feel excited after a lucid dream. Especially since it doesn't happen often (i rarely practice) reevaluating everything (from prior night)
almost borders on obsession..well in a fun way. Anyway it's late and I (desperately) need to get back to xbox (bioshock) everyone have great night.
If possible, out of curiosity, could you elaborate on meaning of "daily lucid nightmares". Are you implying some form of lucidity without any control over actions/dream narrative?
Probably the perceived danger of nightmares triggers more alertness... more lucidity. But from my journaling, if I look at the more nightmarish dreams, (though they are nothing like night terrors or nightmares nightmares), I can sort of associate it with first noticing things are odd, I'm not comfortable. Like, I start to be more alert, think, this is odd, feel less secure and suddenly the scenario escalates to the worst. So in these cases, I feel low lucidity is prone to more negative dream content, for me, because, I realize how odd things are and it feels unsafe.
I'm not sure whose post you're referring to exactly here, but if it was the bit about my friend having these daily lucid nightmares, then I'll explain briefly: Yes, she had extremely clear lucidity in these nightmares, but the only thing she had some control of was herself. Everything she could think of doing never worked when she tried. I told her about how it can be comforting to talk and how characters can suddenly change when you speak to them and try to engage in dialogue, so I suggested she spoke to the character in the dream and she did, after which the character felt a lot less threatening and the matter sort of resolved itself, simply put.Quote:
Originally Posted by PrisonPlanet
To put into perspective the lack of control over dream narrative, the level of lucidity was very high, yes, but the feeling of panic and fear that she had were also extremely high, especially because these nightmares were practically haunting by that point. Even in waking life we don't make the most reasonable choices and decisions under that type of conditions, regardless of how "awake" we are.
It's odd, I can't relate to this aspect while dreaming, but very interestingly I can relate to it from waking life, especially from when I was a child. I used to be afraid of the dark, something I'd actually forgotten about until now... And whenever I went somewhere very dark (plenty of spots like that in the house when I was young, actually) I started to get that exact same feeling, or what sounds like the same thing. Obviously nothing bad ever did happen, but I felt like it was going to, even despite repeated experiences of this. And as a child that also meant my imagination was much more vivid and so I sort of ended up scaring myself somehow.Quote:
Originally Posted by Occipitalred
For me, it makes me wake up as more optimistic and more confident about life when I have a lucid dream or as many that I've had. Then again, I've been doing this for years. So, I tend to know myself better than a study that could or could not be right. ;) Everyone is different.
Darkestdarkness I was referring to you (my bad if didnt hit reply). Anyway that sounds horrific. I heard similiar situations before but not often. Assume its somewhat rare. Anyway I'm curious how our perception of fear operates in dreams (or lucid dreams) I think in dreams (believe I've previously mentioned on site) a bouquet of flowers could appear scary. I think (in most cases, not ur friend) it does involve a 'low lucidity' or we're constantly struggling with memory. Even when lucid I think most experience difficulty w things like reading/writing or facial recognition. Or our fear increases w risk of false awakenings. From my own personal experience, which isn't grand (achieving that prolonged experience) it's a juggling act always reinforcing mind 'I am here' I've personally had lucid dreams thrown into dangerous environments but nothing I'd consider nightmares. In regards to dream characters (helping friend) I'm somewhat skeptical however everyone's different (with me many appear to act as 'dream police') its ridiculous how many characters want nothing more but to end my adventure. I've always been superstitious but if I practiced ld'ing frequently my opinion very well may change.. Anyway thanks for feedback. Hope friend discovers something that works.