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    Thread: Lucid Dreaming Book Club (July)

    1. #26
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      Quote Originally Posted by CarpeNoctem144 View Post
      Guess I'm a bit late to the party but since I wanted to read this book for some time I think I'll just start now...
      Great idea btw
      Glad to have you here with us. You know, I was thinking, because people read at different paces, we can always vote on extending this a couple weeks or even full month of August before heading into a new book. We can play it by ear.

      Spoiler for Chapter 9:
      CarpeNoctem144 likes this.

    2. #27
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      Quote Originally Posted by Occipitalred View Post
      I think the westerner approach to meaning and content indulges dualism and explores what is important to us. By observing our dream content, as the author says, we can observe our "karmic traces" and use antidotes and self-liberation to nurture more positive karmic traces (those we value and and find virtuous, which we want to nurture).
      Yes, I particularly had Jungian dream interpretation in mind in terms of interest in content and meaning. There's definitely a lot of exploration of dualities and part of that early on is finding the symbolic meaning to the dreamer and how that relates to their waking life and internal interpretations. But one of the main goals of that exploration (by my understanding) is for the dreamer to find a creative and unique way to integrate the two sides of the duality - which essentially eliminates it.


      Quote Originally Posted by Occipitalred View Post
      I think that is the overlap you were looking for? Well, not an overlap, but a gap between is/ought; they are simply complementary.
      Complementary is a good way of putting it, and clarifies what I was wondering about. Exploring the dualism can bring awareness to it, which in turn gives a platform to practice dissipating it. Very interesting.


      Quote Originally Posted by monsa199a View Post
      I also feel wisdom is universal and it would come knocking your door in many different ways and forms, whether you're ready to receive it or not.
      I get the same impression. Perhaps the only difference being ready or not makes is how much you're able to recognize what, exactly, is knocking at your door


      Quote Originally Posted by CarpeNoctem144 View Post
      Guess I'm a bit late to the party but since I wanted to read this book for some time I think I'll just start now...
      Welcome


      Quote Originally Posted by MoonageDaydream View Post
      You know, I was thinking, because people read at different paces, we can always vote on extending this a couple weeks or even full month of August before heading into a new book. We can play it by ear.
      Yes, and/or perhaps we could create a new thread when we start on a new book? That way the old threads could continue as long as there's interest and meanwhile we can start on new content when enough people are ready for it.


      Spoiler for Chapter 2 and 3:
      "When you see the shadows falling,
      When you hear that cold wind calling,
      Hold on tight to your dream."
      -ELO

    3. #28
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      Quote Originally Posted by CarpeNoctem144 View Post
      Guess I'm a bit late to the party but since I wanted to read this book for some time I think I'll just start now...
      Great idea btw
      Welcome aboard!

    4. #29
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      Spoiler for Chapter 14:
      monsa199a and Lang like this.

    5. #30
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      Part 3 chapter 3


      “The emphasis should actually be on you, the dreamer, more than on the objects of your experience. Keep reminding yourself that you are dreaming up your experiences: the anger you feel, the happiness, the fatigue, the anxiety – it is all part of the dream. The oak tree you appreciate, the car you drive, the person to whom you are talking, are all part of the dream. In this way a new tendency is created in the mind, that of looking at experience as insubstantial, transient, and intimately related to the mind's projections. “

      so as I understand it ,it’s our reactions, our likes and dislikes our aversions and grasping which totals as our “projections” that’s “DREAM LIKE” not the objective world I see? And this stems from our karmic traces ?


      Can someone tell me how leave a message via the “spoiler” icon??
      monsa199a and MoonageDaydream like this.

    6. #31
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      Quote Originally Posted by Ant101 View Post
      Part 3 chapter 3


      “The emphasis should actually be on you, the dreamer, more than on the objects of your experience. Keep reminding yourself that you are dreaming up your experiences: the anger you feel, the happiness, the fatigue, the anxiety – it is all part of the dream. The oak tree you appreciate, the car you drive, the person to whom you are talking, are all part of the dream. In this way a new tendency is created in the mind, that of looking at experience as insubstantial, transient, and intimately related to the mind's projections. “

      so as I understand it ,it’s our reactions, our likes and dislikes our aversions and grasping which totals as our “projections” that’s “DREAM LIKE” not the objective world I see? And this stems from our karmic traces ?


      Can someone tell me how leave a message via the “spoiler” icon??

      I think it's both. I don't know how it works, though.

      Oh, press "go advanced" when posting, then at the top you see the toolbar. Look at the very bottom line where you see an S with a line through it. Press the box button to the left of that S with the line through it.

    7. #32
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      Quote Originally Posted by Ant101 View Post

      Can someone tell me how leave a message via the “spoiler” icon??
      Spoilers:
      1. At the bottom of your write your post there are two buttons.
      When you choose Advance post. There is a little icon that is on your square on the bottom towards the middle, if you hover your cursor over the icon it will tell you, "Spoiler wrap tags" push that. Then a window will pop up, that is where you can put whatever wants in that field. Example: "Chapter 3"
      Then push send.
      The tags should appear in your post. There you can post whatever you want between the tags.
      Or
      You can use these tags from the code and just change the "Chapter 3" to whatever you want.

      Code:
      [ SPOILER=Chapter whatever? ]
      Contents
      [ / SPOILER ]
      I hope that is not as clear as mud?

      I haven't seen any other post about how to do things... So I hope that helps, Ant101?

      ~Lang.
      Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence

    8. #33
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      [ SPOILER = chapter 3 part 3 ]
      CHAPTER 3 really good blah blah
      [ / SPOILER ]


      That didn’t work 🤔
      Last edited by Ant101; 07-20-2020 at 06:28 PM.

    9. #34
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      As you wish! Oh, no space between the spoiler tags...
      The tags are simple: vB Code example: [spoiler=Click Here!]This is the spoiler text...[/spoiler ]
      There are different ways of doing this: the go-to Advance button or just do the
      Spoiler for Click Here!:


      Perfectly not confusing.

      Alright back on topic.
      Last edited by Lang; 07-20-2020 at 08:40 PM.
      Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence

    10. #35
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      Quote Originally Posted by Ant101 View Post
      Part 3 chapter 3


      “The emphasis should actually be on you, the dreamer, more than on the objects of your experience. Keep reminding yourself that you are dreaming up your experiences: the anger you feel, the happiness, the fatigue, the anxiety – it is all part of the dream. The oak tree you appreciate, the car you drive, the person to whom you are talking, are all part of the dream. In this way a new tendency is created in the mind, that of looking at experience as insubstantial, transient, and intimately related to the mind's projections. “

      so as I understand it ,it’s our reactions, our likes and dislikes our aversions and grasping which totals as our “projections” that’s “DREAM LIKE” not the objective world I see? And this stems from our karmic traces ?
      You never do see the objective world directly. In waking life, all perceived experience, all contents of your consciousness are constructed by your mind/brain so in waking life, you indirectly see the objective world through the process of the brain/mind. This concerns the targets of your five senses (such as what you see) and also the feelings, thoughts and impulses you have. Through meditation, you can observe all of these things arise and go spontaneously. In dreams, the mind still constructs conscious experience but not based on an objective world.

      So, in a dream, it is not only our feelings of aversion/grasping that are "dreamlike" but EVERYTHING contained in your consciousness (the world, the feelings, the thoughts, the impulses...) That is why, "waking up" (self-liberation) means the end of the dream: because, once you are "enlightened," there is nothing left but your consciousness.

      They say, it's bright and clear but again I'd argue that's also dream.

      I think overly focusing on "self-liberation" is... suicidal in a sense. I think it's useful for taking a step back. Like taking a breath of fresh air before plunging back in water. I believe you need to indulge the dream and follow certain values to orient yourself around the dream of life, and I think the author also believes this.

      But to answer your question, yes, the author's discussion of karma is focused on inner experience rather than outer experience. (Think compassionate thoughts, and more compassionate thoughts will resurface. Indulge your feelings of aversion, and they will arise more strongly and more frequently). Karma also pertains to the outer world, but in the context of dream/sleep yoga, the discussion is focused on inner experience.
      Last edited by Occipitalred; 07-20-2020 at 08:53 PM.

    11. #36
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      If/when you have finished the book, please post it in this thread so that I can get an idea of if we need a couple extra weeks before moving on to the next book. Thank you.

      *Also, please note the suggestion thread for the next title is now up. You may post ideas for the next book there*
      Last edited by MoonageDaydream; 07-24-2020 at 04:17 PM.

    12. #37
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      Spoiler for Ch15:
      monsa199a likes this.

    13. #38
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      Quote Originally Posted by MoonageDaydream View Post
      Spoiler for Ch15:
      Yes, it's agood practice sitting or laying more diagonally, although I'm an artist and more visual, I find is harder to visualize a ball of light for me, the practice with the light of a candle is very useful to train visualization in the 3rd eye... staring at the light without blinking for couple of minutes the closing your eyes, you'll see the flame floating in the 3rd eye, or eyebrow chakra..
      I want to practice it again! It's an uplifting experience
      Last edited by monsa199a; 07-26-2020 at 07:45 PM.
      nautilus likes this.

    14. #39
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      Quote Originally Posted by monsa199a View Post
      Yes, it's agood practice sitting or laying more diagonally, although I'm an artist and more visual, I find is harder to visualize a ball of light for me, the practice with the light of a candle is very useful to train visualization in the 3rd eye... staring at the light without blinking for couple of minutes the closing your eyes, you'll see the flame floating in the 3rd eye, or eyebrow chakra..
      I want to practice it again! It's an uplifting experience
      Very cool, thank for sharing this. I've been using a circular dot for a focal point. I am going to adjust my practice to use the candleflame. It won't hurt the eyes?

    15. #40
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      We will be starting the next book on August 7th, 2020, after the poll results close. We can continue to discuss this book after that point in this thread. Please go and vote for the new selection

    16. #41
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      Well, I finished this book last night. It took me a long time, I just found it kind of hard to read. The visualizations were difficult to picture and use. I feel like it will take at least another read-through of the yoga section to attempt that.

      Spoiler for End:
      nautilus and Occipitalred like this.

    17. #42
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      To be formal, I also finished the book two weeks ago, I think, but I felt satisfied with the thoughts I shared. I think my favorite part is the segment I quoted in my first response to Nautilus, related to the is-ought gap. I think I connected more with the dream yoga than the sleep yoga parts. I don't think I'm ready for those rituals but it's nice knowing where to find them.
      MoonageDaydream likes this.

    18. #43
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      It's interesting that you both weren't exactly bowled over by the sleep yoga section. I thoroughly enjoyed the dream yoga part, and felt that Wangyal did a good job introducing it and offering techniques and points of view -- well worth reading for any LD'er, experienced or not... but I was disappointed by the sleep yoga section:

      I had discovered, before reading the book (and back in '02), that the dream work I had been developing for years was actually a form of sleep yoga, sans the religious part, and I was very interested in what someone steeped in the practice had to say. So I read the book. It turns out he had very little to say about sleep yoga; at least not any of the useful stuff like he had in the dream yoga section. I got the notion that sleep yoga may be a bit too personal, or perhaps transcendental, in practice, that there really wasn't much to say about it that would make sense to the reader, or that perhaps would be valid to every individual reading the book.

      The only other problem I had with the book was similar to Moonage's:

      Spoiler for opinion:

    19. #44
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      Hi all,

      It’s been a couple years since I’ve read this book, but perhaps I can be of some service here.

      Spoiler for End:

    20. #45
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      I finally finished the book. It seemed like I just kept going slower and slower, maybe because there was more to process as the book progressed.

      Spoiler for Dream Yoga Section:


      Sleep yoga section:
      Spoiler for Sleep Yoga Section:


      Overall, I really the book. I'm still fuzzy on how to apply the sleep yoga section, although it was interesting to read about. Even for a lot of the dream yoga techniques I suspect I'll probably have to stick with the basics for a while.
      "When you see the shadows falling,
      When you hear that cold wind calling,
      Hold on tight to your dream."
      -ELO

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