• Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views




    Results 1 to 13 of 13
    Like Tree5Likes
    • 1 Post By Eonnn
    • 1 Post By Erfeyah
    • 1 Post By Summerlander
    • 1 Post By Eonnn
    • 1 Post By TheUncanny

    Thread: The Awareness Behind The Dream

    1. #1
      Lucid Dreamer Achievements:
      1000 Hall Points Veteran First Class Made Friends on DV Created Dream Journal
      Summerlander's Avatar
      Join Date
      Oct 2011
      Gender
      Posts
      119
      Likes
      77
      DJ Entries
      2

      The Awareness Behind The Dream

      THE AWARENESS BEHIND THE DREAM

      I read Robert Waggoner's Lucid Dreaming: Gateway to the Inner Self a few years ago and was fascinated by his concept of 'the awareness behind the dream'.

      It might seem like metaphysical woo woo at first, but there might actually be something there to be explored ...

      Why do I say this?

      Split-brain patients have revealed right-brain hemispheres that exhibit more awareness and cognitive abilities than a toddler---suggesting there is more to consciousness beyond the apparently dominant and analytical cerebral hemisphere that tends to employ the reductionist approach when observing reality.

      There are also intriguing cases of paranoid schizophrenia and multiple personality disorders which make me wonder about emulations of sentient beings in dreams.

      I have also noticed that, in ordinary dream states, characters seem 'more with it' than me, the dreamer; as though they are more consciously aware and know their way around the dreamworld while I feel like a clueless zombie often getting lost ...

      ... until I become lucid, and then I notice that in that 'aha' moment my metacognition is sharp to the detriment of whatever semblance of sentience surrounds me---as though, in that moment, the dream 'movie' has come to a halt, time stands still, and dream people resemble mannequins in need of recuperation; and I wonder if my newfound state of lucidity drained the life out of them.

      And this process can always be reversed as the oneiric status quo is fluid and takes effort to stabilise; and like in a zero sum game, if I am not careful, my loss becomes their gain ...
      THE PHASE = waking consciousness during sleep hybridisation at 40Hz of brainwave activity conducive to lucid dreaming and autoscopy.

    2. #2
      Lucid Natural Achievements:
      1 year registered Created Dream Journal Veteran First Class 5000 Hall Points Made lots of Friends on DV Tagger First Class
      Eonnn's Avatar
      Join Date
      Oct 2005
      LD Count
      1000+
      Gender
      Location
      The Aether
      Posts
      839
      Likes
      301
      DJ Entries
      36
      I have no clue what a split-brain patient is, could you please enlighten me?

      Also, I recovered from paranoid schizophrenia which I had for many years so if you have any questions about it feel free to ask! Every doctor said I would be on the medications for life, and I proved them all wrong

      FAIR WARNING: before reading any further abandon all hope, you are bound to lose your sanity by continuing, I just told you I was previously insane did you not listen?? haha just joking, time to get all existenz... enjoy


      I tend to believe, as the title suggests that there is awareness behind the dream. That our own consciousness goes so deep, right down past subconscious and unconscious, into the sea of pure awareness (or the ineffable) where everything is all connected and new ideas (and life?) are born out of it through imagination or inspiration. I've also said before a few times that waking life is similar to dream life in that you can be the dream, the dreamer, or just dreaming. Which one are you? and which would you prefer?

      I've had plenty of dreams where characters seem to be consciously alive in the sense they show a high level or degree of intelligence. After practicing astral projection/OBE's, meditating along with transcendental dreams, sleep paralysis, altered states of consciousness and all that. The idea consciousness is the foundation or wellspring from which all reality comes into form (1st hermetic principle by the way 'all is mind'), it's not hard to then assume that astral realms or planes are tangibly real places, and that we can visit these places through certain techniques. And, if these places are actually real (not purely physical, rather higher mental/etheric/energetic use whatever term works for you) then it also means astral beings occupy them. In my AP experiences I have seen the astral planes go up multiple levels higher and higher seemingly infinite staircase with many different realms or area's on each plane or level. The astral levels or realms also spiralled downwards the opposite direction seemingly right down into hellish evil realms. It's almost like Life starts out completely basic, simple unity and the higher conscious it becomes the more complex and diverse it is as well.

      One such technique is to travel as fast you can in any given direction when you become lucid within a dream, you can fly or run super fast or even jump or teleport, or use a portal. The idea is to get away from your personally projected space within the mental dream realm, and breach the border or cross over into astral territory. Perhaps higher lucidity allows for greater exploration of this, a greater level of awareness would certainly not go astray in helping one to go deeper beyond. Dreams can sometimes be a mix between partial astral, partial personal dreamspace, sometimes unintentionally whereas majority of the time they are 99.9% internally constructed personal projected mental space within the own confines or area of your mind or mental field of awareness. Another technique might be to simply become aware of these boundaries, aware of the confines you are currently within while lucid, then expand it or travel outside of it, maybe shrink it to easily transition beyond it. Sometimes astral beings can creep into your personal dreamspace as well. It's extremely hard to clearly define or clarify, the correct terminology, rules, boundaries, conditions, etc is not well established and very subjective. Robert Bruce from Astral Dynamics attempts to clarify it all, but again it's all based on subjective experience trying to cross reference and correlate from other people's experiences to arrive at a somewhat objective viewpoint. Rupert Sheldrake's work on morphic fields might hold a bit more weight here in this regard.

      After reading a few accounts on NDEs it seems most people when they die experience similar things, much like in DMT trips. But what they often report is the experience is different for everyone according to their belief system. Which implies a dream-like quality to the afterlife, and highlights how important it is to only hold onto beliefs which benefit you personally, and will benefit you even more when you cross over because your belief will shape your experience of it there. Buddhists mention the bardo, christian limbo, etc. and highlight the importance of becoming lucid, overcoming fear to get to a better place when they die, that if you die there you end up back here re-incarnating into a new body with complete amnesia. I highly believe the afterlife is like a shared lucid dream, and I will continue to believe this because that's what I want to happen, so I can become a lucid god in a high level astral realm when I die. This is where all us lucid dreamers have an advantage over non-dreamers because it's likely we will become lucid of the thought "oh yeah I'm dead, I died in real life a few moments ago" and have some level of control to navigate and defend ourselves. The worst thing you could do there is try to force yourself awake, because then you are sent straight into a new body in the physical world (denser version of the astral) that is if you don't already have a body to go back to of course, probably after existing in a deep state of unconsciousness first which wipes the memory (like coma patients the longer they under the more of themselves they lose). If you stay in the astral, you can do anything you can imagine, and places can be so vibrant and vivid that it's more pleasant and peaceful, more 'real' than here. It also explains why we constantly end up back in this physical plane with no memory, which better prepares us for our next chance over there. Back n forth we go crossing over the veil, until we can one day either walk straight through the veil freely (enlightenment?) or never end up back here again. It would also be much easier to access information over there, deep subconcious learning could be had quite easily and higher levels of lucidity could be gained at an almost expotential rate, provided you get over the inital bump in the road they call limbo or bardo, aka hell.

      Spoiler for examples:
      Last edited by Eonnn; 12-22-2020 at 03:40 PM. Reason: spelling - theres grammar too but i cbf sorry

    3. #3
      Lucid Dreamer Achievements:
      1000 Hall Points Veteran First Class Made Friends on DV Created Dream Journal
      Summerlander's Avatar
      Join Date
      Oct 2011
      Gender
      Posts
      119
      Likes
      77
      DJ Entries
      2
      What an abundance of info, mate! Luckily for me, I am old enough to have come across much of what you mentioned. Even old Sheldrake there with his morphic fields and how they could hypothetically influence animal behaviour.

      I would rather be the dream, by the way. Or perhaps just pristine cognition or the field of awareness which can house a myriad appearances. Not much of a fan of perpetuating the dreamer-dream dichotomy---preferring a nondualistic outlook---but I can play around with multiple user-illusions, too! LOL

      I think it was more than half a century ago when doctors used to sever the corpus callosum (fibres connecting both brain hemispheres) in order to treat epilepsy. The operation actually stopped the cerebral electric storms that caused sufferers to fit, but there was a serious side effect that wasn't obvious at first and hence the reason why they don't do it anymore: cutting the brain in half literally creates two minds.

      Imagine a woman with a left hand undoing her blouse in front of a male doctor while the right hand fights this action. Normal behaviour for a split-brain patient.

      Makes you think. Who the fuck are we, right? By the way, I happen to talk to a schizophrenic I went to university with so feel free to be a schizo. We used to call him 'drunk Barry' because at the time we didn't know why he acted so weird. He always had a pint of beer in his hand so we assumed he was always drunk.

      Not too long ago, he told me that was his way of connecting, of mixing with the normal kind. With a drink, he had the excuse of being weird and was accepted. I accept him regardless. I'm a mental oddball myself anyway. LOL.

      Oh yeah, I enjoyed reading Rick Strassman's DMT: The Spirit Molecule . Boy did he have trouble getting approval from the government to test exogenous DMT on volunteeers. And the experiences his subjects reported were astounding and strangely similar to some of the ones I've experienced myself in OOBEs and lucid dreams. It supports his claim that even our perception of the world (not just the phase state characterised by 40Hz) is a very elaborate hallucination caused by endogenous DMT secreted by the pineal gland---Descartes' 'seat of the soul' and the 'third eye' in esoteric traditions.
      Last edited by Summerlander; 12-23-2020 at 03:13 AM. Reason: Addition

    4. #4
      Lucid Natural Achievements:
      1 year registered Created Dream Journal Veteran First Class 5000 Hall Points Made lots of Friends on DV Tagger First Class
      Eonnn's Avatar
      Join Date
      Oct 2005
      LD Count
      1000+
      Gender
      Location
      The Aether
      Posts
      839
      Likes
      301
      DJ Entries
      36
      Haha, I ended up writing so much because I was trying to put all the information together in a logical format to help my own self come to a greater conceptual understanding of how it all works and fits together.

      There is another LD'er here with a lot of interest in split brain experiments, think it's OccipitalRed I could be wrong. During one of my psychotic episodes in hospital I had a brief moment where I had whole brain hemispheric-synchronization. I was just sitting at a table outside with other patients, they were all talking to each other and I didn't know which conversation to listen to, the one on my left or the one on my right. Then this weird thing happened, I could listen to both conversations simultaneously and actually understand them both at same time. Instead of the usual, listen and understand one convo and mentally shut out the other.

      I am not schizophrenic by any means, at least not any more. I do hold my self back a lot though when speaking with other people, but that's mainly because most are not comfortable or open to any of this sort of info. So I'm like a turtle that only sticks his head out the shell when safe to do so. My good mate is very open and quite similar. we have deep conversations about all this kind of thing very often. It's a refreshing change from the usual day-to-day mundane stuff that people usually talk about and gossiping they do. He has spent many years studying enlightenment and it's his goal to reach enlightenment, so we are both on same kind of journey. He has tried DMT, I'm a little afraid to try but also feel it's not necessary. There is also 5-Neo-DMT which is supposed to be better, they call that one the God molecule instead of Spirit molecule because you experience being God, and come to the realization that you are God on a much deeper level. They also invented all the prescription medication existing today for treating mental illness by experimentation with psychedelic substances, and continue to do so with latest medications based around experimentation with Ketamine and cannabis/CBD oil.

    5. #5
      Lucid Dreamer Achievements:
      1000 Hall Points Veteran First Class Made Friends on DV Created Dream Journal
      Summerlander's Avatar
      Join Date
      Oct 2011
      Gender
      Posts
      119
      Likes
      77
      DJ Entries
      2
      I'm glad you mentioned hemispheric synchronisation and your momentary ability to understand two conversations simultaneously. That shows hyper-integration of some sort, i.e., two principal minds working very well as one.

      This is redolent of a line of enquiry that Robert Monroe toyed with in his sleep studies, and self-integration appears to be an important goal for Stephen LaBerge according to his literature on the benefits of lucid dreaming.

      OccipitalRed sounds familiar to me, for some reason. The name implies that the individual is into brain anatomy. I think we are all curious to varying degrees, tbh.

      Enlightenment is a very real phenomena. Scientists can see Tibetan monks' level of equanimity reflected on their brains. Living in the present with an egoless existence literally becomes their cerebral default mode while the majority of us find ourselves constantly lost and trying to journey back to the present.

      We can experience snippets of enlightenment in mindfulness meditation, where we rest in the present moment, and outside of time if you will. And a brief realisation ensues where the line between observer and observed shatters because it is an illusion.

      In fact, you don't even have to go deep. This sense of Buddha nature lies pretty much at the surface. We just tend to miss it. Right now, if you pay attention, you will notice that in your field of awareness there is only seeing, hearing, tactility and thinking. You are essentially the world you see. If you look for the observer, or the self, if you will, you won't find one.

      The entire world sits on your neck where a head should be. As the philosopher David Hume pointed out, the self is created by thought-narratives. It is an illusion. An illusion that, funnily enough, is enforced by the Cartesian maxim, 'I think therefore I am.'

      I'm wondering if you've heard of Douglas Harding and his essay On Having No Head. It is a good illustration of epistemological observations which support bundle theory, of which Siddharta Gautama was the first advocate.

      On psychedelics ...

      Never took DMT or LSD. But I did take psilocybin (in the form of Mexican magic mushrooms), which made be feel 8ft tall with a buzzing spiritual crown. Visual hallucinations dominated the experience and I had intermittent euphoric moments where I felt like a god who created the universe for his own amusement.

      Took a hit of Salvia Divinorum, as well, which propelled me into another world where this one seemed like a distant memory. It was a frightening and dizzying experience of sensory overload and passing through a surrounding soup of molecules at the speed of light, until I found myself on the edge of a cliff, screaming as I'm trying not to fall. When I came to, I was leaning over a coffee table going, 'Whoaaah!' and the uni guy who offered it to me was laughing his head off. LOL!

      I had flashbacks of the experience in dreams after that, like my unconscious insisted on exploring that alien sensory overload. For a while I looked at the world like a monumentally catastrophic spillover---like a big fart that inevitably came into being and pissed a lot of people off. You know what I mean? It's actually not far from the truth.

    6. #6
      Lucid Natural Achievements:
      1 year registered Created Dream Journal Veteran First Class 5000 Hall Points Made lots of Friends on DV Tagger First Class
      Eonnn's Avatar
      Join Date
      Oct 2005
      LD Count
      1000+
      Gender
      Location
      The Aether
      Posts
      839
      Likes
      301
      DJ Entries
      36
      Yeah, it's strange how we mentally block stuff, like there's no reason we can't listen to more than 2 conversations at once and still understand both. We sort of just choose not to and put up a mental wall. It's like when people say you have selective hearing, I often joke and say "yes, I have selective memory too" but it's no laughing matter because we actually do have selective memory, always remembering bad things easier than all the good and putting up blocks on really painful memories. Same goes for selective vision/sight, taste, touch, etc. For that brief moment of integration, it was like something clicked in my brain but then after a few minutes went back the way it was used to. I've listened to brain-sync meditation music, holo-sync and binaural beats but it's nothing even close to what I experienced in that moment.

      My friend often says you can know all about enlightenment, and not be enlightened.

      You can understand everything about reality and how everything works and still not be enlightened. Because you can't think yourself into enlightenment, developing conceptual understandings can only go so far, at some point you have to do some proper soul searching, and give up on trying to achieve enlightenment through mental thought process, or intellectual understanding. It then becomes more about choosing a simple practice that will lead to that goal of enlightenment. Self-enquiry is a lot of fun, like trying to examine where you're consciousness originates from you begin to realize it's not actually originating from within your body, more like pervading or permeating it. For most, they tend to think it sits inside their head (usually the point right behind their eyes, because they are used to relying on vision so much) they also tend to think it stops in the head and goes no further. But when you start examining it, and looking for the origin using the awareness you already have, you start to see it differently. You shine the light of your awareness over all the different area's that you can observe and find and still not find the origin, finally the only place to shine the awareness is on itself. It's totally illogical because you don't know the origin so how do you shine awareness on awareness without knowing where awareness is? but you are aware right now correct? you see what I'm getting at here, like Buddha said to his disciples before going into the great beyond "be a lamp unto yourself".

      It's funny how when I'm lying in bed at night, everything can be really quiet, almost too quiet. And then I start to wonder how that can be when my house is right next to a busy freeway that has regular trains passing along it, quite close to the city. I live in a multi-complex apartment with thin walls and still not a sound. But as soon as I question this, I start perceiving some of those sounds. It makes you wonder if the environment around you is only generated on an as-needed basis. I've described this to my friend, and he tends to agree. Like there is nothing beneath the floor right now, or anything past the walls of this room, nothing behind my back, my physical body parts like my brain, kidneys, lungs, etc. none of it is there until I start thinking about the concept of having a brain inside my head. Unless you are aware of it, then it doesn't come into form because there is no need for it to. It's like the parable "if a tree falls in the woods when no one is around, does it make a sound?" well no, there isn't any tree or even a forest for that matter unless awareness is present. The only thing we know with 100% certainty is that we exist, anything from the point of perception there onwards is pure conjecture, as you cannot validate without a shadow of a doubt those perceptions are objectively real or accurately representative of reality, especially when we can perceive an experience as entirely different to someone else, and what scientists say about our perception being a recreation inside our brain of what we think reality is. It can be fun to play around with, like how do you know I am an actual conscious being? maybe I'm just a character that is part of your mind like a DC in a dream, or even the other way around. This kind of thing is known as solopsism, or truman show syndrome while people like Robert Lanza investigate and come up with new theories such as Biocentrism. Our mind can fill in a lot of the blanks, and in his theory the backstory of reality "big bang, evolution, etc." is not actually there rather it's just sorted of crafted by us on the spot, which brings me to the esoteric gnosis that all is self, or all is one. It's a total mind f*ck, hence why choosing a simple practice for enlightenment is better than wasting so much time trying to rationalize and conceptualize it all. Like they say, the devil is in the details and a picture paints a thousand words. You can see the glass as half empty or half full, but when you become enlightened you then see it's just a glass with water in it.
      Last edited by Eonnn; 12-23-2020 at 07:49 PM.
      sleephoax likes this.

    7. #7
      Used to be adroid28 Achievements:
      1 year registered Veteran First Class 5000 Hall Points
      Erfeyah's Avatar
      Join Date
      Dec 2003
      Gender
      Location
      UK
      Posts
      288
      Likes
      8
      I recommend you read ‘The Master and His Emissary’ by Iain McGilChrist 🙂
      Summerlander likes this.

    8. #8
      Lucid Dreamer Achievements:
      1000 Hall Points Veteran First Class Made Friends on DV Created Dream Journal
      Summerlander's Avatar
      Join Date
      Oct 2011
      Gender
      Posts
      119
      Likes
      77
      DJ Entries
      2
      I've heard of Lanza and Biocentrism. It's well weird. I mean, do we even die or is it all practically like Schrödinger's cat and we are perpetually conscious? Can we speak of death as a real thing when it can't even be described as a conscious experience?

      Iain McGilChrist is totally new to me, Erfeyah! Have you heard of this fella, Eonnn?

    9. #9
      Lucid Natural Achievements:
      1 year registered Created Dream Journal Veteran First Class 5000 Hall Points Made lots of Friends on DV Tagger First Class
      Eonnn's Avatar
      Join Date
      Oct 2005
      LD Count
      1000+
      Gender
      Location
      The Aether
      Posts
      839
      Likes
      301
      DJ Entries
      36
      Quote Originally Posted by Summerlander View Post
      I've heard of Lanza and Biocentrism. It's well weird. I mean, do we even die or is it all practically like Schrödinger's cat and we are perpetually conscious? Can we speak of death as a real thing when it can't even be described as a conscious experience?

      Iain McGilChrist is totally new to me, Erfeyah! Have you heard of this fella, Eonnn?
      Haven't heard of Iain McGilchrist, looks to be a book by a psychiatrist on split brain experiments.

      But yes, that's the idea. It's what all the buddhists say anyway... forever conscious, we exist eternally until we can either resolve our karmic debts and end the cycle of karma that keeps us stuck in the re-incarnation process. Seems a bit impractical really, because unless you are born into a buddhist family and become a monk in that life, there is very high chance you will create even more karma in the next life, and the cycle continues. They do however, mention the bardo which is partly where I get the idea there is a dream-like astral afterlife, that we can live within indefinitely if we can survive there! otherwise we end up back here in a new body. The other half of this idea I get from my personal experiences, namely meditation and astral projection but also researching esoteric/occult stuff. But it's not just buddhist thought either, the concept that conscious is eternal and perpetual is well known in most religions, sects, ancient books/practices, cults and secret societies, all except for Christianity which believe you get 1 life, 1 chance and that's it, but the bible has been altered many times (close to 20,000 alterations to date) and they changed the religion to suit their needs.

      It's like what you said before, about local relativity. Consciousness is local to the organism or local to the spiritual being or spark of awareness experiencing an existence. We are only aware of the things we are aware, if we aren't aware of it, more than likely it's not there! that whole double slit experiment, observer effects the outcome, without an observer the experiment is not even taking place. The old adage "if a tree falls in the woods and no one is around... does it make a sound?" well no it doesn't, there is no forest even there unless an observer is present. There is a slight possibility however, that things outside the local area of awareness do exist, but on a very minimal level like not fully materialized until an observer is within close proximity. Maybe just a way of prioritizing and preserving resources, like how a computer runs background tasks on a much simpler and slower level, it doesn't use a lot of processing power or prioritize the information until it is required more urgently. I'm not suggesting we are in a simulation though, because I also believe consciousness is a fundamental requirement not just for our reality, but also for a simulation or computer controlled reality. At a base level, consciousness is a requirement to create the computer simulation in the first place, and probably required to experience anything in the simulation as well.
      Last edited by Eonnn; 01-06-2021 at 03:35 PM.

    10. #10
      Lucid Dreamer Achievements:
      1000 Hall Points Veteran First Class Made Friends on DV Created Dream Journal
      Summerlander's Avatar
      Join Date
      Oct 2011
      Gender
      Posts
      119
      Likes
      77
      DJ Entries
      2
      I see what you are saying, Eonnn.

      I think you will like Donald Hoffman's theory on reality and how consciousness 'encodes' cryptic explanations for what we perceive. He doesn't even believe that neurons really exist; he reckons that such forms were collapsed by consciousness as a logical reflection to ourselves that awareness can only be explained by a complex organ whose function remains largely in the dark.

      Hoffman points out that even evolutionary biology paints the picture that we didn't evolve to understand reality, but rather, we were primarily naturally selected to survive. Hoffman would go as far as to say that we dreamed up the 'forensic evidence' that fits the narrative of how the universe began, the formation of our solar system and planet Earth, life's origins, evolution etc. The narrative is real to the extent that it fits what we perceive according to limited human logic.

      I feel that his best empirical back up is the fact that the quantum ostensibly defies human logic and the reductionist approach clearly does not work with consciousness because it is irreducible. Consciousness is the what it is like to be; or simpler, experience itself—and as mysterious as it seems to us, the 'lights' are either on or off (no middle ground).

      At what point does consciousness come online in a system that has been gradually made of non-conscious parts? The scientist's guess is as good as anyone's.

      Here's a link with Hoffman discussing his ideas:
      https://youtu.be/UJukJiNEl4o

      He has pitched his view in symposia against competing hypotheses such as those of Daniel Dennett, David Chalmers, John Searle, Thomas Nagel etc.
      Eonnn likes this.

    11. #11
      Lucid Natural Achievements:
      1 year registered Created Dream Journal Veteran First Class 5000 Hall Points Made lots of Friends on DV Tagger First Class
      Eonnn's Avatar
      Join Date
      Oct 2005
      LD Count
      1000+
      Gender
      Location
      The Aether
      Posts
      839
      Likes
      301
      DJ Entries
      36
      Awesome, thanks! Will definitely check it out.

      Lanza says similar thing in his theory of biocentrism... that the 'backstory' is just that, a backstory. We perceive the answers as we venture out looking for them, big bang, evolution, none of it 'happened' it's just the historical background made up to fill in the blanks and missing puzzle pieces. There is a quote I use that seems to work here "we only perceive what we believe" which is to say if you believe in a spherical earth model then yes that's true for you, likewise if you believe in flat earth theory then yes that's true for you. You can find evidence for or against anything really, the only thing we know for certain is that we exist, anything after that comes down to perception and belief and is therefore debatable. So people can form beliefs based on evidence that supports it, but likewise, someone else can argue against that belief providing evidence against it. It's pretty hard to find evidence against the fact you exist, or I exist, or to say "you perceive nothing at all" comes back to that spiritual concept of "I AM" or put another way "I exist" and knowing this on a core level, is similar to attaining Samadhi and understanding the eternal aspect of consciousness, to know thyself that always exists as just existence and nothing else on top, from the point of perception into form and what we call reality. It's what much of the esoteric wisdom points to, and how we find connection to our higher self or divine nature, how we find liberation and become enlightened.

      I think you answered your own question there:
      Quote Originally Posted by Summerlander View Post
      At what point does consciousness come online in a system that has been gradually made of non-conscious parts? The scientist's guess is as good as anyone's.
      .
      With this:
      Quote Originally Posted by Summerlander View Post
      we were primarily naturally selected to survive.
      Almost like there is an intelligence behind it all, that can decide if and when to make a non-conscious part more conscious.
      But, thinking about creating a true AI robot some day, will that still be the case when this happens? surely, there is another way of creating consciousness that we just haven't discovered yet.
      I've heard there are 2 main approaches to understanding origin of consciousness:
      1.) it's formed by electrical circuits in the brain, producing a consistent pattern which creates a system enabling thought and perception. (this theory older, bit out-dated now really)
      2.) nano-tubulars within the synapse, resonating in vibration with the conscious or quantum field existing throughout reality, we pick up on the signal like a radio antenna. (this theory more recent, gaining popularity)
      It could be a combination of both of these, but I don't believe "all is mind" rather "all is spirit, and some is mind" or something to that effect. I believe spirit is beyond consciousness, which gives life to it through awareness and form. We are not mind and body, but mind, body and soul.

      Spoiler for Spoils ending of the 1997 movie "Contact" to elaborate on the post:
      Last edited by Eonnn; 01-07-2021 at 04:23 PM.
      Summerlander likes this.

    12. #12
      TheUncanny's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jun 2007
      Posts
      677
      Likes
      124
      DJ Entries
      1
      As per Robert Waggoner's book "Lucid Dreaming", as well as another oddly-similar book "A Field Guide To Lucid Dreaming", I decided to start trying to see my unconscious as a sentient entity, and begin building a relationship with it.

      By this, I mean becoming acquainted with whatever/whoever is behind all of the stuff I don't control when in a lucid dream. Introducing myself (which I did last night), being respectful, sharing with it, listening to it, etc.

      For many years I've seen this part of myself as an obstacle, that thing that often gets in the way of what I'm trying to do in an LD. Something I need to "master" and make "submit"...but recently I've been rethinking the dynamic.
      Summerlander likes this.

    13. #13
      Lucid Dreamer Achievements:
      1000 Hall Points Veteran First Class Made Friends on DV Created Dream Journal
      Summerlander's Avatar
      Join Date
      Oct 2011
      Gender
      Posts
      119
      Likes
      77
      DJ Entries
      2
      Quote Originally Posted by TheUncanny View Post
      As per Robert Waggoner's book "Lucid Dreaming", as well as another oddly-similar book "A Field Guide To Lucid Dreaming", I decided to start trying to see my unconscious as a sentient entity, and begin building a relationship with it.

      By this, I mean becoming acquainted with whatever/whoever is behind all of the stuff I don't control when in a lucid dream. Introducing myself (which I did last night), being respectful, sharing with it, listening to it, etc.

      For many years I've seen this part of myself as an obstacle, that thing that often gets in the way of what I'm trying to do in an LD. Something I need to "master" and make "submit"...but recently I've been rethinking the dynamic.
      Hear! Hear!

      Too many ideas have been thrown around here. I'm going to explore one at a time and firstly regard neuroscientific fields that apparently support some of the claims made by Iain McGilchrist—split-brain studies never fail to intrigue me. For McGilchrist, the right hemisphere is the 'master' and the left is the 'emissary'. The left hemisphere tends to break down complexity with approaches like reductionism; the right hemisphere is more holistic, thus tending to have an uncanny ability to think outside the box by way of unconventional connections, abstractions and often producing Eureka moments.

      Julian Jaynes—with his theory that consciousness arose evolutionarily with the merging of a bicameral mind as the fibrous mesh that we call 'corpus callosum' developed between both hemispheres—would go as far as saying that godly voices in visions and dreams of the past, and recorded in the works of Homer and even the Bible, originate in the right hemisphere (just as right-brain areas light up when schizophrenics are instructed by mental voices; those areas were observed to be counterparts of left-brain language centres). Thought, according to McGilchrist, originates in the right hemisphere to be transduced into speech by the left; and it doesn't stop here, so lucid dreamers, heed this: the right can derive more meaning!

      My understanding so far on what is being posited by these studies is that the holistic side—usually the right hemisphere in the majority of humans—is analogous to the probabilistic framework of the quantum realm because it explores every possibility however nonsensical it may be if it were to be transduced by the left hemisphere, which is analogous to a Copenhagenian 'collapser' as it uses syntax in its logical decision-making so that the end result is more applicable to the objective world.

      Now, these theories were shaped by neurologically derived empirical data and interpreted through the lens of materialism. If Hoffman, or even panpsychism, is found to be true, the brain is merely part of the worldly interface, and thus represents or reflects the process of bringing about single manifestations from an infinitude of possibilities.

      Curiously, split-brain patients have complained that their dreams suddenly became more mundane, almost mirroring waking life and having become devoid of the beauty of abstractionism and surrealism; as though they lost that holistic connection.
      Last edited by Summerlander; 01-09-2021 at 01:05 AM. Reason: Typographical
      THE PHASE = waking consciousness during sleep hybridisation at 40Hz of brainwave activity conducive to lucid dreaming and autoscopy.

    Similar Threads

    1. Pinching yourself for awareness. My sole awareness technique.
      By scipherneo in forum General Lucid Discussion
      Replies: 2
      Last Post: 04-03-2016, 06:48 PM
    2. Replies: 7
      Last Post: 08-10-2015, 11:03 PM
    3. Replies: 33
      Last Post: 06-09-2015, 08:28 AM
    4. Replies: 6
      Last Post: 03-06-2015, 07:54 AM
    5. Replies: 8
      Last Post: 05-30-2013, 08:21 PM

    Bookmarks

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •