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    Thread: How to awaken during sleep for obe4u method / what to do mentally while awake

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      How to awaken during sleep for obe4u method / what to do mentally while awake

      Hi,
      I wanted to know what to do for step 2 of the obe4u method? I've tried having thoughts before sleep of awakening and nothing happens. I also have tried the practical alarm clock and it's awoken me fully instead of awakening me and me going back to sleep. Should I put the audio at a certain level below conscious hearing so I can go back to sleep once I hear it?

      https://obe4u.com/how-to-lucid-dream/

      Any advice?

      Thanks.
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      Step 2 looks to be the wake back to bed (WBTB) method.

      This is where you intentionally wake up earlier than usual, about 4-6 hours after sleeping normally, you get out of bed and walk around do something for 30 minutes, then try going back to sleep. When you are trying to go back to sleep, you also try to visualize the dream you want to create or just simply set the intention "I'm going to have a lucid dream now" or "I will have a lucid dream straight after I fall asleep". Setting an intention is a skill in itself, not as simple as just thinking it or saying it in your head. You have to put meaning and willpower into, similar to when we are trying to remember something, we create a memory in our brain to be recalled later and intention works in a similar way, creating a mental hook like etching it into your mind. The stronger the intention, the better it will work.

      I'd suggest reading the techniques here on this forum first, they are more detailed and easier to understand and follow. The technique you are trying is somewhat similar to the WILD technique, which is fairly advanced and difficult especially for a first technique to try and use. 3rd step on that link you gave seems to be relying on sleep paralysis, which can be quite a random and fleeting thing to happen and not a guarantee upon abrupt awakening. It doesn't mention sleep paralysis, and might be possible to do what they suggest without sleep paralysis but is definitely easier to accomplish whilst in sleep paralysis.

      The easiest and maybe one of the best techniques for lucid dreaming is DILD, using reality checks so it transfers into dreaming after becoming an ingrained habit in waking life. But I assume your aim here is to have OBE's instead of lucid dreams? either way, it's a good idea to practice both lucid dreaming and astral projection, and a good idea to become familiar with lucid dreaming before trying astral projection. Good luck, hope this helps.
      Last edited by Eonnn; 01-04-2021 at 10:43 AM.
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      I would just follow Eonnn's advice if it proves to be confusing for you. In any case, I will try to explain what Michael Raduga is describing there ...

      The methods at obe4u can be performed without an alarm—especially if it gets in your way. What the page prescribes is the 'indirect method' which is sensibly deferred by about six hours of sleep. The alarm goes off and you wake up. You may get up, walk around, read about lucid dreaming, or visualise 'cycling through techniques' (such as observing images, listening in, rotation) as a rehearsal for what is to be performed only if a separation attempt upon the second awakening fails. After a few minutes, you return to bed and fall asleep with an intention that immediately upon the next awakening, you will try to separate from your body.

      You can train yourself to recognise awakenings without movement so that a separation attempt may be carried out. If there is real movement upon awakening and no possibility of entering the phase state (LDs/OBEs), spend a minute cycling through techniques until a hallucinatory sensation arises to be amplified—once it peaks, attempt another separation. If it fails, 'cycle' again. If a minute is up, fall asleep with an intention to catch the next awakening all over again in order to subsequently separate if there is no movement.

      Anyway, that is essentially describing several attempts at the DEILD method after sleeping, followed by attempting a WILD for roughly a minute, if the former fails, and then falling asleep with intention to catch the next DEILD opportunity.
      Last edited by Summerlander; 01-18-2021 at 12:09 PM. Reason: Additional
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      THE PHASE = waking consciousness during sleep hybridisation at 40Hz of brainwave activity conducive to lucid dreaming and autoscopy.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Summerlander View Post
      I would just follow Eonnn's advice if it proves to be confusing for you. In any case, I will try to explain what Michael Raduga is describing there ...

      The methods at obe4u can be performed without an alarm—especially if it gets in your way. What the page prescribes is the 'indirect method' which is sensibly deferred by about six hours of sleep. The alarm goes off and you wake up. You may get up, walk around, read about lucid dreaming, or visualise 'cycling through techniques' (such as observing images, listening in, rotation) as a rehearsal for what is to be performed only if a separation attempt upon the second awakening fails. After a few minutes, you return to bed and fall asleep with an intention that immediately upon the next awakening, you will try to separate from your body.

      You can train yourself to recognise awakenings without movement so that a separation attempt may be carried out. If there is real movement upon awakening and no possibility of entering the phase state (LDs/OBEs), spend a minute cycling through techniques until a hallucinatory sensation arises to be amplified—once it peaks, attempt another separation. If it fails, 'cycle' again. If a minute is up, fall asleep with an intention to catch the next awakening all over again in order to subsequently separate if there is no movement.

      Anyway, that is essentially describing several attempts at the DEILD method after sleeping, followed by attempting a WILD for roughly a minute, if the former fails, and then falling asleep with intention to catch the next DEILD opportunity.
      Can you give more details about visualizing cycling techniques? The reason I'm asking is that I don't know if I'm visualizing the techniques right. Can you also give more details of awakening especially what's supposed to being going on in my head / how to awaken without an alarm.

      https://obe4u.com/how-to-lucid-dream/ - I need step 2 of this URL explained in more detail.

      Thanks.

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      No problem.

      Since I am from Michael Raduga's School of Out-of-body Travel, I am going to do my absolute best to help you. You can also download the Phaser app or Michael Raduga's The Phase guidebook for free, which basically walks you through the practice step by step.

      Tonight, go to sleep and wake up after about 6 hours. You may set an alarm or you may simply do it with an intension to get up around a certain time—this is known to work too! However you want to do this, once the alarm goes off after a good few hours of sleep you are done with it. The alarm has served its purpose.

      Then you may use the loo or do something like reading about lucid dreaming. It is optional if you wish to imagine what it might be like to cycle through techniques if it comes to it and what you might actually experience. Then, after a few minutes, return to bed and fall asleep with an intention to separate from the body upon the first awakening.

      Before I go to town on this, I really want you to carefully study this diagram which is an algorithm of action upon awakenings:

      https://images.app.goo.gl/P3g7fSgEm6QuDBfCA

      What you want is to reach the phase state because that is where the 'magic' is. The easiest way to enter the phase, which is recommended for every beginner, is the indirect method.

      Pick three of your favourite techniques (e.g. phantom wiggling, observing images, listening in) to cycle through. The moment you have an awakening after sleeping, and there is no perceived movement, separate from the body immediately. Don't think too much about how it's going to happen or if you are doing it right—just do it! I used to roll over and 'out', starting from the head to find the rest of my phantom body following, but these days I just get up to find myself in the phase!

      Movement is not imagined; really move as though physically, albeit without tensing your muscles. Just go for it like a machine, without thinking, without worrying that you might fail. Just move! If this is successful, congratulations ... You have just bypassed having to cycle through techniques as you are already standing in the phase.

      Of course, if that doesn't happen, you can wait around, in a relaxed state, for images, sounds or vibrations to emerge—which shouldn't take long as you're brain is quite close to the phase state following an awakening. You alternate through techniques, spending a few seconds on each, until one begins to manifest. Stick with the hallucinatory sensation that manifests and amplify it. Once amplified, attempt another separation.

      Visualisation is not different: here, you are actively trying to manifest vision with your eyes closed; you don't have to see anything initially—simply imagine or think about what you want to see until it becomes a convincing reality. Once it takes a life of its own, even if it's not exactly what you had envisioned, separate! If it's a dream scene, jump into it. Voilà: you are in the phase ...
      THE PHASE = waking consciousness during sleep hybridisation at 40Hz of brainwave activity conducive to lucid dreaming and autoscopy.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Summerlander View Post
      No problem.

      Since I am from Michael Raduga's School of Out-of-body Travel, I am going to do my absolute best to help you. You can also download the Phaser app or Michael Raduga's The Phase guidebook for free, which basically walks you through the practice step by step.

      Tonight, go to sleep and wake up after about 6 hours. You may set an alarm or you may simply do it with an intension to get up around a certain time—this is known to work too! However you want to do this, once the alarm goes off after a good few hours of sleep you are done with it. The alarm has served its purpose.

      Then you may use the loo or do something like reading about lucid dreaming. It is optional if you wish to imagine what it might be like to cycle through techniques if it comes to it and what you might actually experience. Then, after a few minutes, return to bed and fall asleep with an intention to separate from the body upon the first awakening.

      Before I go to town on this, I really want you to carefully study this diagram which is an algorithm of action upon awakenings:

      https://images.app.goo.gl/P3g7fSgEm6QuDBfCA

      What you want is to reach the phase state because that is where the 'magic' is. The easiest way to enter the phase, which is recommended for every beginner, is the indirect method.

      Pick three of your favourite techniques (e.g. phantom wiggling, observing images, listening in) to cycle through. The moment you have an awakening after sleeping, and there is no perceived movement, separate from the body immediately. Don't think too much about how it's going to happen or if you are doing it right—just do it! I used to roll over and 'out', starting from the head to find the rest of my phantom body following, but these days I just get up to find myself in the phase!

      Movement is not imagined; really move as though physically, albeit without tensing your muscles. Just go for it like a machine, without thinking, without worrying that you might fail. Just move! If this is successful, congratulations ... You have just bypassed having to cycle through techniques as you are already standing in the phase.

      Of course, if that doesn't happen, you can wait around, in a relaxed state, for images, sounds or vibrations to emerge—which shouldn't take long as you're brain is quite close to the phase state following an awakening. You alternate through techniques, spending a few seconds on each, until one begins to manifest. Stick with the hallucinatory sensation that manifests and amplify it. Once amplified, attempt another separation.

      Visualisation is not different: here, you are actively trying to manifest vision with your eyes closed; you don't have to see anything initially—simply imagine or think about what you want to see until it becomes a convincing reality. Once it takes a life of its own, even if it's not exactly what you had envisioned, separate! If it's a dream scene, jump into it. Voilà: you are in the phase ...
      I wanted to know if the technique can be done on the first awakening (the regular awakening) that is experienced daily? What I mean is the regular awakening you first do after a full nights sleep.

      Thanks.

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      Gotcha.

      Yeah, you can try. The idea to get up and move around is to reinforce enough wakefulness to take into your REM sleep when you return to bed in order to create the phase state. But there is no reason why you shouldn't try to take advantage of the very first awakening. If separation fails, you can fall asleep very easily—than you would have done by getting up awake for a few minutes—but then again, you can always grab the next awakening.

      By the way, it could happen that you fall asleep and waking consciousness emerges whilst dreaming—in which case, all that remains is for you to employ deepening techniques and execute a plan of action in what is already the phase.
      Last edited by Summerlander; 01-22-2021 at 02:13 AM. Reason: Typographical
      THE PHASE = waking consciousness during sleep hybridisation at 40Hz of brainwave activity conducive to lucid dreaming and autoscopy.

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      I wanted to know when I should stop drinking liquids so I don't have to use the bathroom during then night. I usually go to bed around 9/10pm.

      Thanks.

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      That is a difficult one as it depends upon the individual and his or her metabolism. Some people have bladders like a pea, so to speak, you know what I mean? I wouldn't worry so much about that, though, because getting up to use the loo before an induction won't affect your chances. I do it all the time, in fact. After having slept for about six hours, feel free to use the toilet because when you next go down, you will have nothing but plenty of REM—fertile ground for lucid dreaming.
      THE PHASE = waking consciousness during sleep hybridisation at 40Hz of brainwave activity conducive to lucid dreaming and autoscopy.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Eonnn View Post
      Step 2 looks to be the wake back to bed (WBTB) method.

      This is where you intentionally wake up earlier than usual, about 4-6 hours after sleeping normally, you get out of bed and walk around do something for 30 minutes, then try going back to sleep. When you are trying to go back to sleep, you also try to visualize the dream you want to create or just simply set the intention "I'm going to have a lucid dream now" or "I will have a lucid dream straight after I fall asleep". Setting an intention is a skill in itself, not as simple as just thinking it or saying it in your head. You have to put meaning and willpower into, similar to when we are trying to remember something, we create a memory in our brain to be recalled later and intention works in a similar way, creating a mental hook like etching it into your mind. The stronger the intention, the better it will work.

      I'd suggest reading the techniques here on this forum first, they are more detailed and easier to understand and follow. The technique you are trying is somewhat similar to the WILD technique, which is fairly advanced and difficult especially for a first technique to try and use. 3rd step on that link you gave seems to be relying on sleep paralysis, which can be quite a random and fleeting thing to happen and not a guarantee upon abrupt awakening. It doesn't mention sleep paralysis, and might be possible to do what they suggest without sleep paralysis but is definitely easier to accomplish whilst in sleep paralysis.

      The easiest and maybe one of the best techniques for lucid dreaming is DILD, using reality checks so it transfers into dreaming after becoming an ingrained habit in waking life. But I assume your aim here is to have OBE's instead of lucid dreams? either way, it's a good idea to practice both lucid dreaming and astral projection, and a good idea to become familiar with lucid dreaming before trying astral projection. Good luck, hope this helps.
      Could you go into more detail of how to set an intention mentally? Also can you to into detail of making the intention work in the form of awakening multiple times during sleep? This is to Eonnn.

      Thanks.
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      Can anyone give me what kind of material I can read about lucid dreaming so I can get a higher chance of lucid dreaming?

      Thanks.
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      Quote Originally Posted by luffy28 View Post
      Can anyone give me what kind of material I can read about lucid dreaming so I can get a higher chance of lucid dreaming?

      Thanks.
      Exploring the World of Lucid Dreaming by Stephen Laberge, Howard Rheingold.
      Check out the Lucid Dreaming Book Club: May-June
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      Quote Originally Posted by MoonageDaydream View Post
      Exploring the World of Lucid Dreaming by Stephen Laberge, Howard Rheingold.
      Which part(s)?

      Thanks.

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      Quote Originally Posted by luffy28 View Post
      Which part(s)?

      Thanks.
      Sure. Chapters 1-3 are the most important parts for learning how to lucid dream and increasing your chances. After that he goes into more advanced techniques (like WILD), and then into what you can do with lucid dreaming. The whole is great, and I recommended reading the whole thing. You will find that the act of reading about lucid dreaming increases your chances of becoming lucid. Also, just so you know, there's an audiobook version. If your local library uses Hoopla, you can get it for free through their online website. You just need a library card. Also, you can visit the thread on the book, as it was the book club's selection just a few months ago.

      Here's the thread: https://www.dreamviews.com/general-l...r-october.html
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      Thanks.
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      Quote Originally Posted by MoonageDaydream View Post
      Sure. Chapters 1-3 are the most important parts for learning how to lucid dream and increasing your chances. After that he goes into more advanced techniques (like WILD), and then into what you can do with lucid dreaming. The whole is great, and I recommended reading the whole thing. You will find that the act of reading about lucid dreaming increases your chances of becoming lucid.

      Though I agree with everything else, I must take exception with one thing: WILD is not an advanced technique. Indeed, it isn't a technique at all, but the name for the transition to LD that happens when you don't lose track of your waking-life self-awareness as you fall asleep and enter a dream (as opposed to DILD, where you do lose track of it, and regain it during the dream). The techniques are the things you do, like WBTB, to induce or encourage a WILD, and I believe that those techniques are no more difficult (and often way easier), than the techniques meant to induce DILD's (like MILD). The myth that WILD's are harder than DILD's to achieve is just that; myth.

      So read on, Luffy, LaBerge's whole book is worth your time.

      Just sayin'
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      Quote Originally Posted by Sageous View Post
      Though I agree with everything else, I must take exception with one thing: WILD is not an advanced technique. Indeed, it isn't a technique at all, but the name for the transition to LD that happens when you don't lose track of your waking-life self-awareness as you fall asleep and enter a dream (as opposed to DILD, where you do lose track of it, and regain it during the dream). The techniques are the things you do, like WBTB, to induce or encourage a WILD, and I believe that those techniques are no more difficult (and often way easier), than the techniques meant to induce DILD's (like MILD). The myth that WILD's are harder than DILD's to achieve is just that; myth.

      So read on, Luffy, LaBerge's whole book is worth your time.

      Just sayin'
      He's right, I always forget WILD isn't actually a technique, but a type of lucid dream. Still, you use techniques to have a WILD, and he has a chapter on that. I do think, though, that WILDs are harder for me than DILDs. And also, DEILD is easier for me. But everyone is different.
      Last edited by MoonageDaydream; 01-28-2021 at 12:26 AM.
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      Quote Originally Posted by MoonageDaydream View Post
      He's right, I always forget WILD isn't actually a technique, but a type of lucid dream. Still, you use techniques to have a WILD, and he has a chapter on that. I do think, though, that WILDs are harder for me than DILDs. And also, DEILD is easier for me. But everyone is different.
      I am going to agree with you in principle. Me and Sageous have been at this stuff longer than half of you have been alive and it is easy to forget what the first 5 years is like. DILD can be achieved simply by becoming fascinated with dreaming and starting to question your state of consciousness. WILD however requires a shift in head space akin to yogic meditation. That is a whole skill set that needs learned. Now in Sageous' favor, once you have gotten good at both WILD may in fact be easier. I say that because if you get up to a 1 in 4 success rate and try a couple times a night you get lots of results, as where DILD is kind of up to chance.
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      Quote Originally Posted by luffy28 View Post
      Could you go into more detail of how to set an intention mentally? Also can you to into detail of making the intention work in the form of awakening multiple times during sleep? This is to Eonnn.

      Thanks.
      Just read up on it if you can and try to study and analyze the own process you initiate within yourself whenever you make an intention.
      I was trying to understand it myself, and also understand how memory works years ago and had to become aware of my thoughts and the internal process that takes place.

      I only read a little about it, most of the learning came from self-education internally working it out. Purposefully try to remember something or intend something and then just be aware of what happens when you do this.
      Like I said before, with memory we create a sort of "mental hook" which we latch onto later when something needs to be recalled. It's similar in a way with intention, it's like you're etching it into your mind or into reality somehow similar to a mental hook.
      The stronger the mental hook or deeper the etching, the better it works. Intentionally planning to wake up naturally at a certain time is then easier once you understand it internally, create the intention before sleeping to wake up at 4am, and 9 times out of 10 you will.

      Good luck.

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      I remember using the dreamsigns from exploring the world of lucid dreaming. I also was able to do the obe4u technique (this was back in 2011) and I had a very good erotic dream.

      I wanted to know some online resources I can read in addition to exploring the world of lucid dreaming. Are there any google searches someone could recommend in addition to specific websites?

      Thanks.

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      I've just joined Project Elijah and been sent my first set of instructions for an experiment. They are testing several techniques there in the name of science so that knowledge of lucid dreaming is refined. I'm about to test how good the 'diving headfirst' technique is for deepening the environment.

      They also have a Project Elijah online school if you wish to refine your practice. If you want literature on it, you can also order a hard copy of The Phase: Shattering the Illusion of Reality or download the older version for free from obe4u.
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      THE PHASE = waking consciousness during sleep hybridisation at 40Hz of brainwave activity conducive to lucid dreaming and autoscopy.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Summerlander View Post
      I've just joined Project Elijah and been sent my first set of instructions for an experiment. They are testing several techniques there in the name of science so that knowledge of lucid dreaming is refined. I'm about to test how good the 'diving headfirst' technique is for deepening the environment.

      They also have a Project Elijah online school if you wish to refine your practice. If you want literature on it, you can also order a hard copy of The Phase: Shattering the Illusion of Reality or download the older version for free from obe4u.
      I have the newer version (the printed version from Amazon) and I have the free pdf. I think the free pdf is better in my opinion. I also wanted to know if I can awaken with an alarm after 4 and a half / six hours / seven and a half hours and try the techniques from obe4u?

      Thanks.
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      Yes, the free pdf used to be called School of Out-of-Body Travel and Michael Raduga included a couple of my phase experiences in the book—you'll probably find them in the newer version under the name 'Arlindo Batista, UK'. I still own the old hard copy.

      The author is a friend of mine and I used to head the Phase Managing Department of the OOBE Research Center besides moderating the OBE4U forum.

      Yes, by all means try out the alarm at those times as long as the continuous sound of the alarm doesn't interfere with the practice.

      Have you downloaded the Phaser App? It gives you access to three very useful seminars by Michael Raduga, with a crystal clear English voiceover.
      Last edited by Summerlander; 02-06-2021 at 12:28 AM. Reason: Additional
      THE PHASE = waking consciousness during sleep hybridisation at 40Hz of brainwave activity conducive to lucid dreaming and autoscopy.

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      I was going to send this as an email to the lucidity institute but their email isn't valid.

      How to recall dreams while using an alarm app

      Hi,
      I have your book called Exploring the world of lucid dreaming. I wanted to know how I can recall dreams while using an alarm clock app. The app I use is called Alarm clock Xtreme. Last night I tried awakening with it (the app) and played audio upon awakening. Should I awaken without audio? Also, I set the alarm to sound for 1 minute and 45 seconds and it then shuts off.

      Any advice?

      -

      This is the email I wanted to send to them.

      Thanks.

    25. #25
      Member Achievements:
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      Jan 2011
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      Hi,
      I wanted to know if I could set an alarm after 7 and a half hours? The reason I"m asking is that I usually sleep from 9 pm to 10 am. This is for exploring the world of lucid dreaming technique. I also wanted to know if I could recall dreams only on Saturday and Sunday since those are the days I have off?

      Thanks.

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