Dream creation and structure.

Some events and thoughts lately have brought me to contemplating about the structure of dreams...

Worldly logic dictates that actions cause consequences, which, in turn, are actions as well. Thus, actions form endless processes.
Could such logic be used to explain dream structure?

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Theorizing on such logic the process of dream creation is as follows: when falling asleep hypnagogic imagery (independant thought) kicks in, it continues for a certain amount of time changing and evolving also following the same logic: actions cause consequences and back to actions again; but at some point the hypnagogic imagery ends leading to delta sleep. Eventually the first stage of REM sleep begins...this is where the question stands. Does the "action->consequence" logic hold true here? If so then the first dream of the night begins from where the last thought patterns ended. But then, after the first REM period ends and the second begins following another delta sleep period, does this second dream start off exactly where the first one ended?

Considering such logic one might ask: then why does one have completely different dreams on different topics? That makes sense taking into consideration that same "action->consequence" logic again because it would mean that dreams are simply logical evolutions of concepts...meaning that the last conscious thought one has before drifting off leads into hypnagogic imagery where it begins evolving following some sort of logic and then the evolution process continues on into the dream state.

All this leading up to thinking: dreams and their structures aren't actually random...or are they?

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Those, however, are merely my thoughts on the matter. Perhaps anyone else has any theories or input?

Hi Merlock! Most of us, if not all, have the ability to conjure up dreams and their settings. I believe the term is dream incubation. Before drifting off to sleep, one's thoughts will center on a specific situation.

Thoughts certainly dictate our dream content. I wonder how random thoughts really are on nights when only one subject is the focus.

The structure itself is very amazing. Has anyone had a lucid dream when a mere thought influences or downright changes everything? What about when we have our own memory and ongoing thoughts that don't affect our dreamworld?

I forget where I have read this, but the brain is capable of creating completely random thoughts, it is a survival instinct.

For example, if a wolf is chasing a...I dont know...a chicken. Yes, a chicken. If the chicken does not move randomly, then over time wolves will figure out which direction the chicken is going to move in certain situations. So to counter this, the chicken moves...randomly.

So perhaps the subconscious mind has such mechanisms that are apparent during dreams.

I dont know what to believe. For me, the dreams are usually related to something I had done in the past couple days.

There is no such thing as random. But, there are so many variables involved in how the brain goes through thoughts it would be totally impossible to make fasifiable predictions. That's why we have psychology and neurobiology. Psychology covers everything that we aren't advanced enough to cover with neurobiology, psychlogy being a soft science and neurobiology being a hard science.

I think this has a lot to do with the way schemas work.

A single thought opens up an almost indespensible (sp) cache of schemas: singular thoughts that are comparable to a single file in an infinitely large room of file drawers. In the conscious mind, at all times, there is a network of schemas that may, at one time, seem unrelated, but actually have some common ground with each other, which is why schemas on certain subjects are more attainable at a certain period than schemas that have absolutely nothing to do with one another.
For instance. You're taking a rorshack (sp) test. The events and/or conversations that took place before the test are more than likely going to have a LARGE effect on what you make out the inkblot to be. This is because certain schemas are activated in your mind during the course of conversation, and they continue to stay in your mind until they are no longer useful to your present situation.
If someone says to you the word "plane" a massive number of schemas that are Somehow related (in your mind) to the word "plane" are going to arm themselves to be used. You're going to be more likely to become conscious of many things that have to do with the word "plane" than if you were talking about something like basketball, moments earlier. From the word "plane" you'll be more apt to think of things like "sky" "wing" "fuel" "aerodynamic" "rotor" "carry-on luggage" "crash" "911" "terminal" "hijackers" etc etc.
Now, with the opening of every schema, comes a list of schemas relating to each schema individually, until you have a web of schemas that are connected In Some Way, even if the way isn't exactly apparent, creating a seemingly random link between many of them.
Someone could say that "gift shop" and "firemen" aren't related, however giftshops are in airports, planes dock at airports, planes were used in the 911 disaster, firemen came to the rescue. I believe this has a lot to do with how dreams are structured.

Taking this further, you have to realize that there are, in fact, three seperate thought processes that are constantly tangled with each other in the human mind; the Id, Ego, and Superego. These three "personalities" if you will, can contradict each other at all times, distorting what would probably be a more linear dream sequence by exerting supremacy at different times, and thus morely randomizing the dreaming process.

Yes? No? :hrm:

Hmm, I wonder...
Would it be safe to make the deduction that dreams evolve in the same manner as events during the waking life but simply with less restrictions? Then there really isn't any room for the concept of random concepts popping up.
But then again, who knows; perhaps the evolution of dreams is dependant on something other than the "action->conscequence" logic and there is simply no way of finding out this dependancy or no one has found that way yet...

It makes sense to me.

It doesn't have to be literal though, if your thoughts or whatever when you are going to sleep are about The Incredibles, for example, you could dream about any number of topics to do with the film, the characters, having super powers, et cetera. Or even a feeling you got, or the tv you watched it on, or the person who was there.
Kind of like what Oneironaut said.

Saying you dream about the last thing you think about before you fall asleep leaves you with a lot of options. I could watch the incredibles every night and have very different dreams each time.


As for the second or third dreams, I don't know about other people, but I find that if I have more than one dream a night, they do seem to be related in some way. For example, I had two very different dreams about dresses the other night. One involved a fashion show and the other involved someone dressing up as a woman. Or they might have an emotional theme in common, whilst being about very different subjects.
And sometimes the dreams do merge into eachother and seem like one long dream.


Dreams are definatley not random, at least not truly. There are a lot of options for what could happen next, it has your entire memory to choose from. But I think there is some kind of logical progression going on, even if it's twisty dream logic. :mrgreen:

I suppose it would require incredible dream recall as well as remembering hypnagogic imagery to actually track the evolution of concepts in dreams; otherwise it's pretty much tough to tell speaking only from remembered dreams not having remembered anything before the first dream or the very beginnings and endings of later dreams.