does anyone know how to enter SP and experience "the hag"?
maybe like a modified WILD method?
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does anyone know how to enter SP and experience "the hag"?
maybe like a modified WILD method?
not what i meant or was looking for.
Well that explains how to enter paralysis and the hag is an occasional element of the paralysis. All the accounts I have heard from people experiencing the hag have involved them waking up and being paralysed, not entering paralysis whilst aware - so you may only be able to experience it inadvertantly.
inadvertantly? thats kinda disapointing, ive never awoken in SP before either. I am insanely curious as to what its like. You did answer my question tho. thanks anywaysQuote:
Originally posted by Anjow
Well that explains how to enter paralysis and the hag is an occasional element of the paralysis. All the accounts I have heard from people experiencing the hag have involved them waking up and being paralysed, not entering paralysis whilst aware - so you may only be able to experience it inadvertantly.
Well people usually experience it after LDing. Try waking yourself up early in an LD and see if you can experience it!
cool, ill try it tonite.Quote:
Originally posted by Wolffe
Well people usually experience it after LDing. Try waking yourself up early in an LD and see if you can experience it!
One question: Why on ruddy Earth would you want to!?
She's supposed to be absolutely terrifying. Not horror film or roller coaster type terrifying, but soiled underpants type terrifying.
That said go ahead and try if you wish. Let's hope you don't start experiencing it unwillingly afterwards.
im not sure, im quite interested in such a thing, im also trying to summon deamons while im lucid, fear is something i enjoy experimenting with. :lol:Quote:
Originally posted by Identity X
One question: Why on ruddy Earth would you want to!?
She's supposed to be absolutely terrifying. Not horror film or roller coaster type terrifying, but soiled underpants type terrifying.
That said go ahead and try if you wish. Let's hope you don't start experiencing it unwillingly afterwards.
hag stand for what?............
If it is what i think it is, I can understand why. It can not hurt you. And it is not an never ending experience. And that is what it is. An experience. Unless you have had it, you will wonder.
I suggest if you do, just ride it out and take in the experience and explore realms of an illusory state that you cannot normally.
However true sleep paralysis is the failure of the brain to shut of it's mechanism that is implemented while you are asleep. A process that it uses so you do not literally and physically act out your dreams. So paralysis is normal. Awareness of SP in a wakeful state is the lack of neurotransmitters getting a specific message across that you are now awake.
[quote]Awareness of SP in a wakeful state is the lack of neurotransmitters getting a specific message across that you are now awake.
The REM-system just doesn't shut off while you become conscious. That doesn't have anything to do with neurotransmitters in particular. It's merely a dissynchronisation and essentially a lucid dream with not enough dream input/output going on to keep the action in a fully fantasized reality.
In order to experience sleep paralysis you should experiment with different methods of WILDing. The old hag is just a typical halluscination passed on through tradition. It's not like you couldn't have any other halluscination or none (visual) at all. It depends on what you expect and what your reaction is. Of course, subconscious things play an important role as well. You can have perfectly positive visual halluscinations in sleep paralysis but this is achieved rarely as these halluscinations are often an interpretation of the unknown situation and also deal as a kind of enemy confronting the "conscious" invader, just as sometimes the big bad "unconsciousness" seems to be opposed to the gloryul selfish "consciousness" becoming active through an LD.
I never said anything about the REM cycle shutting off.Quote:
Originally posted by Korittke
The REM-system just doesn't shut off while you become conscious. That doesn't have anything to do with neurotransmitters in particular. It's merely a dissynchronisation and essentially a lucid dream with not enough dream input/output going on to keep the action in a fully fantasized reality.
Lucid dreams and non lucid dreams follow the same principles. One you are aware one you are not. Aside from that your cognitive input remains the same.
What is sleep paralysis? It is the brain shutting of your motor skills while you sleep. It could be considered an involuntary action. Otherwise you would be flailing around during REM.
It is so talked about because at times we become conscious during this event and most become understandably frightened. Once you know what it is really derived from there is nothing to fear.
And it is a good parallel to lucid dreaming. In both cases you become aware of a state that normally is inactive to most of the left hemisphere of the brain.
I didn't say it shut off either (I didn't mean to). What I meant to say is that consciuos Sleep Paralysis is result of a dissynchronized process of waking up or falling asleep to/from REM-sleep. The REM-system causes the sleep paralysis itself, so that's why I said that during conscious Sleep Paralysis it would't shut off while at the same time being consciously experienced without a dream scenario.
I am not sure Korittke, but in a round about way I think we are saying the same thing. :P
I am just not aware how the rapid eye movement produces the sleep paralysis.
But in either case, there seems to be what you call some "dissynchronisation - dyssynchronized " process that takes place.
[quote]hag stand for what?............
If it is what i think it is, I can understand why. It can not hurt you. And it is not an never ending experience. And that is what it is. An experience. Unless you have had it, you will wonder.
I suggest if you do, just ride it out and take in the experience and explore realms of an illusory state that you cannot normally.
However true sleep paralysis is the failure of the brain to shut of it's mechanism that is implemented while you are asleep. A process that it uses so you do not literally and physically act out your dreams. So paralysis is normal. Awareness of SP in a wakeful state is the lack of neurotransmitters getting a specific message across that you are now awake.
THE HAG. Its an old tale thats been around for hundreds of years. the "hag" being an old woman that comes in and sits on your chest until you cant breathe. This happens while in SP. There are different variations of this, but it is usually an old woman.
To make it clear, I want to experience this myself. Is there any possible way to accomplish this or is it completely luck?
Quote:
Originally posted by psycho_supreme
THE HAG. Its an old tale thats been around for hundreds of years. the "hag" being an old woman that comes in and sits on your chest until you cant breathe. This happens while in SP. There are different variations of this, but it is usually an old woman.
To make it clear, I want to experience this myself. Is there any possible way to accomplish this or is it completely luck?
The Hag ..interesting.
Like a stated I can agree with why you want to experience this for yourself. I am the same way.
I don't think luck has to do with it. I believe, again as stated, that it is a neurological response. However if you do put yourself in circumstances that have produced this for other people it seems more probable for your chances.
But frankly I do not know how to induce SP or The old lady HAG!
I've had it a few times unwillingly, and its not very fun!
Huh. I never knew there was a way to induce 'Sleep Paralysis'. I usually get it when I wake in the morning, but more regularly when I wake in the morning, then go back to sleep. Strangely, I also sometimes get it when I'm doseing off and suddenly realise I can't move, but I'm not sure if that one is real or not.
It used to freak me out when I awoke and realised I couldn't move, but I've been so curious to experiment with it, although my first reaction is always to panic, freak out, then do my best to try and roll over or move an arm that is in a very uncomfortable position.
I once got this really odd feeling that there was a spider on my bed, and a puppy that freaked me out to no extent (for a reason I couldn't and still can not understand.) I don't usually get that 'Hag' thing where I can't breath because there is something on my chest. It has only happned once or twice.
I would say 'Stay away from the Sleep Paralysis'. It is kind of scary.
@Howetzer: You are only paralyzed during REM sleep, because of REM-on/off-neurons inhibiting all motoneurons.
@psycho_supreme: To enter SP, you have to possibilities:
A) WILD -> Hypnagogic state
B) Wake up abruptly from a dream (from a lucid dream). Or in the dream try to focus on your real body as much as possible. But you don't want to really wake up, losing sleep at all.
To get the hag... you just need to expect it to appear... as I've said before. The sitting on the chest is an interpretation of the automated breathing during sleep (can't be controlled consciously) and the extreme relaxation, also the distorted body image and distorted input from body neurons during REM is involved. Open your eyes to see the hag, imagine it etc. Emotions are very strong catalysts for this (e.g. fear as one of the strongest). There's not much more you can do. You might experience other things... black shadows are typical, evil presences, evil entities approaching, jumping on your bed, sitting near it, trying to kill you. It's up to your imagination, it can be an old hag and she can be on a broom.
@sj-angelgirl/psycho_supreme: SP is a natural part of sleep and it is essential in WILD. WILD is a very common method and it doesn't really make sense to separate it from SP. It's only experienced quite differently by different people. Waking up into SP is also typical but the whole thing is not much different from lucid dreaming. The breathing thing I explained above.
There's no problem with trying to experience the hag if you're so hot for her. Engaging fear in itself is diminishing fear so you might have problems getting "into it" like unprepared persons do. I had pretty many occasions of SP and never experienced anything negative because I stayed calm. It's a very enjoyable situation and if you master it you can have very long SPs without waking up. You can have crazy sensations with your body and have crazy halluscinations. After all it's the door to lucid dreaming or what some might call OBEs in this case.
I have to thank Korittke for the quite in depth analysis of my question. Muchly appriciated.
I've never experienced the hag, but I have had a bunch of SP, and all of it usualy happens when I get a good chance to sleep in and I get good at LDing, get up in the morning, be sure to wake your self up real good, then try your best to go to sleep, I wonder if some physical exercise in the morning and then sleep would make you more likly to introduce SP :?
Try this:
enter a lucid dream and then once you are fully lucid and have stabilized the dream
find a bed
lay down and use the powers that one has when one is lucid to simulate SP
then think to your self that the old hag will come or appear
this way it should be a similar experience and be a lot easier to achieve
(plus you are in SP while you are in a lucid anyways)
hope that helps
I don't know if my experience counts as a SP and "old hag" experience but I will talk about it. During this time my method of achieving this was trying to stay awake at work. I was a security guard at this time in an empty trucking/frieght company lot. There was nothing to do really so I just sat in my car and tried not to fall asleep.
My speculation is that this experience is not ..............natural REM. Every time I was about to fall asleep into the first stages of sleep I intentionally woke myself up because I was afraid of being caught sleeping on the job. It is known that REM occurs after the 4th stage where the deep sleep brain wave patterns rapidly drops back down to REM patterns which resembles waking state patterns. In continously dropping back from the first stage into waking state, compare that to dropping back down from stage four sleep into REM which is similar in pattern to waking state. After a while a REM style state occurs from the constant triggering of droping out of 1st stage sleep into waking state (not natural REM). Again similar to the cycle of dropping from 4th stage into REM but without the other stages in between. I speculate again that this is not natural REM but some sort of REM hack.
This is my experience:
Dec. 7, 2003:
It was around 10 am and I was at work (RDFS). It had been raining that day. I had consume a bit of wine last night and hadn’t completely recovered from the toxic effects. Besides that I had recontinued smoking last night after stopping for some weeks or months. I had been having an irregular sleep pattern the day before and came to work sleepy. I fell asleep in my car in a more or less symmetrical body position. My feet were point east, my head pointed west and the seat was partialy reclined (45 degrees). I was falling in and out of sleep, afraid to get caught sleeping but so tired. Soon I didn’t know what was awake and what was sleeping. I was aware of myself, then I thought about something which lead me to see a grandmother figure, (grandma Fav-Pob Thoj). She said in Hmong that I could ask her any question but I had to "stand up" (or "wake up" when translated from Hmong into English) while asking her. I was sitting down in my dream so I guess I may have stood up or remained sitting, and asked her “ Why are there 6 pipes in the qeej (what do they stand for or mean)?” I became more lucid as if to stand up/wake up, and became aware of my heart beat that got faster and faster (adrenaline obviously) until my mind flipped a switch, I heard a high pitched frequency as if my mind was an electronic device turned on like a t.v. In fact my eyes felt like they were locked into a television or monitor. Everything went dark like a monitor still warming up then "click". I saw a series of “super lucid (and vivid?),” images which I cannot recall in great detail because some images had a kind of distortion to them. Sometimes refocusing and becoming clearer. These were computer graphics looking symbols and images in 256 color palettes and super VGA technology resolutions. The first thing I saw was a devlish face reminding me of the “no fear” logo. It was animated like an old pacman game but it was facing me. It had a Halloween jacko-lantern like face that was yellow in a black background.
I don’t recall the order of each symbol as they came after that. There was a dark tower. There was a white castle on green pastures. There was a symbol that looked like the “Decepticon” Transformer robot cartoon logo. I recall that this logo had the characters ‘M’ and ‘2’ some where along the bottom edge of the image.
At the end of the sequences I recall seeing the jacko-lantern face again followed by a pause of blackness. I felt this was the end of the sequence so I tried to wake up but awoke into another vision where I could see my car and body through my eyes but could not control my body. I felt so heavy as I tried to reach for my steering wheel. I couldn’t make any sound with my voice either. I was worried and hoped that someone that walked by the car would see my eyes opened and unable to move. I could see a black shadowy outline around my hands and arms in front of me. When I did wake up, I noticed the sensation of breathing again and knew I was awake this time for sure.
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In retrospect I feel I have to really describe the experience more in order to express how different it was from dreaming. If you were reading this right now and your computer monitor suddenly went crazy on you... meaning that it started to show you random computer images... Yes it is that lucid and vivid and bizzare except that the monitor is glued to your vision so where ever you turn your head, the images remain 2-d and fixed in place. Yes I have had vivid and lucid dreams before justly like anybody else in here but this had a far more, " awake " quality because you knew not just that it was a dream/vision but it had the quality that I can only express as, "what the fuck, I'm still awake so how can I see these things?" However it is NNNot like, "what the fuck I must be dreaming,."
I say again it is , "what the fuck I'm still awake, it's not possible to see this." Again I know what a lucid vivid, wild what ever it is ... is like. This is not in the same category. You gotta experience it to know the difference.
Dropping from 4th stage into REM is one thing... dropping from 1st /2nd stage into actual waking state (NNNot REM!!!) is another experience. Unfortunately for myself, I have never been able to recreate this exprience because I'm to lazy to sit around for 30mins to an hour falling in and out of sleep. Plus I dont' remember the series of thougts that trigger the event. Yes I know... It is considered lazy to just sit around and keep yourself from falling asleep but I'm too lazy to even be doing that.