Dreams...are we somewhere else than lying in our beds!?

Has anyone ever wondered where we go when we dream? I mean do we just stay lying in our beds, or is there something a little more to the issue of dreaming? Take sleepwalking for example, what drives us to do these things, surely our spirit must be somewhere else.
I've been sleepwalking before, but it's always been when ive been on holiday, i've never slept walked at home!

There must be something more to the concept of dreaming, where does our spirit and mind travel to, when we are dreaming and sleepwalking!?

What do you all think? :hrm:

Spirit x x x
:flyaway:

I think that we go other places in dreams because we are bored of our mundane life and wish for adventure and fun...

...but all those places, incredible as they may be, are only the fruit of our own imagination...
Our psyche does not travel anywhere...
Our soul... maybe, but then why would we call it travel, because we don't know where our soul is anyway?..
I think dreams are our own creation, we are in our beds and in our own minds, usually. There might be some exceptions, I really do think they are, but generally speaking we're safe in bed, near the monster in our head :bigteeth:
Wish you well!

Our subconscious vibrates to the astral plane, your physical body is paralyzed

No, actually we're just lying in our beds. Nothing more. No spirits vibrating in the astral planes, no souls wandering about. Dreams are actually pretty well documented. We're still working out why we have dreams, but we've got some solid theories on that, too.
And why do we sleep walk?
That one's easy. While dreaming, you normally enter sleep paralysis to prevent you from physically acting out your dreams. When you don't enter sleep paralysis, you walk around. Not too hard to understand.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cridegnosis

...but all those places, incredible as they may be, are only the fruit of our own imagination...
Our psyche does not travel anywhere...
Our soul... maybe, but then why would we call it travel, because we don't know where our soul is anyway?..
I think dreams are our own creation, we are in our beds and in our own minds, usually. There might be some exceptions, I really do think they are, but generally speaking we're safe in bed, near the monster in our head :bigteeth:
Wish you well!
[/b]

---

Exactly the way I see it:
Your ''Astral Body'' or Psyche doesn't go anywhere while asleep. I believe that when you fall asleep and the senses are shutting down one by one as we go into deep sleep ( No Tactile impulses, No Visual Impulses, No Auditory Impulses etc...) we withniss what happens after more than an our of Sensory Deprivation (which is what it is) and our Minds start creating their own Visual, Tactile, Auditory and more impulses within your own head. This is what manifests itself as a dream. Hypnagogic hallucinations due to a lack of external stimuli.

Now eventhough the ''place'' we go in our dreams isn't a concrete real place, that doesn't mean it's less real.
It's more an abstract place we go...Or better said: we only experience going to an abstract place in dreams.
But that doesn't mean that we cannot call it a ''place'' cuz in an abstract way it is. But really if there were spiritgoggles that could see all that is on the ''Astral Plane'' I believe you won't see someone's spirit rising or travelling away while he/she falls asleep.

OBE's and AP are all about seperating Mind (Astral body) and Body (Physical body) as I have witnessed in intense mushroom trips where I could just feel ''me'' hanging slightly behind and above my body, and then slightly infront of my Body over and over again (really hard to discribe this experience)

I believe when we dream the Exact opposite happens: We more sort of MERGE with and come to ourselves since at night is the only External Stimuli-free time of our lives.

Astrals and OBEs are, in my opinion, just types of dreams. As such, I don't believe they happen anywhere other than in our own heads. There's no other plane, and we can't travel outside our bodies... in my opinion, the idea is a bit ludicrous. I've had experiences similar to those described by SKA, and I believe them to be nothing more than just dreams and/or hallucinations.

SKA is right... its yust a door to your own virtual world.

Maybe one day science will find out that there are spirits living in our world and we just don't see them.
I personnaly think that one self can actually leave its physical body and go wandering about. But I think that it is pretty difficult to achieve "consciously".
I never had a dream where I left my physical body and went wandering like a spirit around the world.
But tell me why a person would want to leave his own body and watch it? To leave it there laying on the ground/bed helpless?

Sleepwalking, talking in dreams. that's easy to understand. But the concept of mind is difficult to grasp. What is our mind?

Quote:

---

Maybe one day science will find out that there are spirits living in our world and we just don't see them.[/b]

---

Maybe, but I doubt it. If it does, realize that likely the 'spirits' most likely won't be anything like what's been theorized in this thread. The thousands of theories of spirits/souls/ghosts/whatever are so massively contradictory, and only one (Or, more plausibly, none) can be right.
Further, we have no evidence suggesting the presence of spirits other than, by and large, personal experiences. Occasionally groups report seeing the same thing, but all in all it fails for the same reason as above: The reports all contradict each other and vary so wildly, and only one can be correct.

But, if you'd like to go and scientifically validate spirits, science won't be doing it for you. At least, not right now. Science, as a rule, doesn't develop a new theory unless there's an observed phenomenon that cannot be explained by existing theories. No hard evidence has come forth, and they won't go looking for it--for the same reason they don't go out trying to find evidence for pink unicorns. But if you want spirits scientifically validated, here's the process:
1: Develop a basis in reality: Gather evidence. Currently, all evidence put forth for spirits that I'm aware of is based in personal experiences and not in empirical observation and records. Build a compilation of hard evidence for spirits. That'll be hard, mostly because you have no basis to work from, and you won't know what you're looking for. Good luck.
2: Create a working theory. After observing said spirits, providing you find any, which is doubtful, you'll have to come up with a explanation of what spirits are, how to observe them, what their existence means, etc. This is mostly a technical matter, but providing you actually find evidence of spirits, scientists will probably be tripping over themselves to be the first to develop a theory, so really you could quit working here.
3: Attempt to falsify your theory. That's how science progresses--find the weak spots in your theory and, when you find a place where it fails, build up a new theory that fixes the hole in the last.

I wonder the same thing, I think that we probably stay in our beds, go nowhere but what our imagination creates for us. People who say they're experienced shared dreaming and stuff kinda makes me wonder though.

This is an interesting thread. I haven't been here that long, but it seems to me that there are two basic distinct schools of thought amongst the posters here, namely those who think that LD is all in the head, and those that aren't so sure.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by invadergarf

I wonder the same thing, I think that we probably stay in our beds, go nowhere but what our imagination creates for us. People who say they're experienced shared dreaming and stuff kinda makes me wonder though.
[/b]

---

So... how does a lucid dream like this one fit in?

The one where I lucid dreamt the result of a major horse race which came true several years later..

??

I believe, at least theoretically, in the existence of spirits, but not necessarily ghost-like spirits. I have a theory on my own (unfortunately it's very subjective) that saids we humans are like some sord of projection... Imagine some guys with laser pointers, which have different heads (let's say one of them projects the form of a chair, another one the form of a man, other is a table and so on). When all the guys project on a wall, in the same time, in a certain configuration, all their lasers, it may appear on the wall the image or picture of a man standing in his room, on his chair, at his table, drinking from a cup. But what if they decide to turn on and off their laser with an preestablished latency? Meaning that on the wall the image will appear and disappear every 3 seconds. Imagine that the man in the scheme will have for a moment some kind of conscious reflection, what would he think about the reality of his enviroment? He exists in the same time with his surroundings, so he'll consider himslef and them real, without knowing that that reality is in fact made up of laser beams that stop at every 3 seconds. Now imagine that being our reality...

The point in my theory is that humans and other objects are projections of information and energy that vibrate at a certain rate (speed) which is mainly the same, constant, but a little different from person to person. So, it may be possible that other projections, which have a totaly different vibration rate, could exist at the same time with us, but we cannot physicaly intercat with them, because our vibration rates are not synchronised. But it may nevertheless happen that similar rates could allow some kind of a very unpalpable, insignifinat interaction...
Anyway, that is how I explain to myself some things, and I know it's not real, though it may be (the rate thing I came up with I found later in many writings, not necessarily in the way I described it, but it was the same principle).
Wish you well!

You know, there is an Aboriginal (native Aussie) belief that when you are dreaming, your spirit goes off to a special world where other spirits go when they are dreaming, and if you wake without your spirit, you die!

We think it's false (probably), but you gotta admit, that is pretty cool!

There&#39;s a lot of belief-snubbing going on in here... I don&#39;t see why the scientists have to come on to an obviously spiritually-based topic and then destroy what these people believe in&#33; No offence to you, but you don&#39;t like spiritual people doing it to your scientific posts either... <3&#33;

Ahem. I&#39;m sorry if my post seemed a bit against spiritual religal stuff, I meant as in most of us would consider that a made-up theory.

I don&#39;t think OBEs happen in the physical plane.. but I don&#39;t discount the possibility that the dreamscape is a real place.

Everything our brain analyzes comes from electric signals. Dreams come in the form of electric signals and waves, which are real things.

Also the thought of a conscience... what exactly is one? How is it possible for one to exist? Etc..

Oneiro: maybe it seems that I would belong to the other group of people believing that we do not LD in our heads/beds.
I actually think that we LD in our heads. That it is our brain which makes everything so realistic and make us think that we actually lived it through.

Oneiro: that dream wouldn&#39;t be a LD it would be a prediction. Than you can discuss if a prediction is LD....I guess so...if LD is defined as any dream when we are conscious that we dream.

There are dreams, which don&#39;t seem to come up from my head. Prediction dreams or dreams about what happened to someone else in the past. It happens to me from time to time. I wouldn&#39;t consider it LD as it is more of like watching TV and in the morning it&#39;s more like a memory of reality not a memory of a dream. Some dreams are so wierd and about something I never think about that it scares me and makes me also think where I came to this idea. Question would be...did my mind stay in my body?

It could be possible that when you leave the body, your soul or spirit remains linked to it, so that your brain is still reacting to the input you recieve on these different planes of existence. Otherwise you&#39;d be getting possessed all the time with other spirits wandering around, and with yourself wandering aimlessly with no link to your body.

If people claim they can dreamshare, or see an event before it happen, do you really think that ALL dreamlike experiences are restricted to our physical brains only? Something to think about.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by STsung

Oneiro: that dream wouldn&#39;t be a LD it would be a prediction. Than you can discuss if a prediction is LD....I guess so...if LD is defined as any dream when we are conscious that we dream. [/b]

---

Hi STsung. That dream was most definitely an LD, in which I deliberately went to specifically find out the result of the race. Full-on dreaming attention with me fully sentient, directing the action for about 5-6 minutes realtime.

Well it seems to me that theres a lot of things called theories going on and no hard core evidence. A lot of scientific people on here say theorie this and theorie that. If your trying to be scientific have a hard core fact then a theorie or its just speculation with little evidence or big evidence its still just a theorie menaing your just as spectical as someone beliveing in that we do go to another realm.
The big bang is a theorie but it still lacks on thing HOW THE HECK DID THAT PARTICLE GET THERE BEFORE IT EXPLODED. Theories are just speculation given another name with some evidence slapped on.
I would like to explain more but i have to go.

From our concious perception, we are somewhere else.

Physical reality is just a state of energy.

I don&#39;t think OBEs are real, but I do believe there are other levels of existance that we cannot reach in our physical body (or atleast not while in the waking state).

I think dreamsharing is enough to prove that the dreamscape is a real place.

God sure had an amazing design when he created us. Sure does keep you busy when you have nothing else to think about :yumdumdoodledum:

Lol i truely think we do go somewhere else because i had a shared dream with my friend when i was eleven...strangley enough he said he was pracxtising astral projection...the cheek.
Any way i do think we go somewhere else....maybe not all the time maybe different dreams are conceled of different levels or maybe we are both in our minds at the same time some where else...bet you never though of that. That could acturly happen because theres evidence of sleep walking yet we can share dreams....that seems like a better speculation.

Stoat, what do you mean &#39;most of us&#39;?

Anyway, i totally belive in spirits and astral projection. I&#39;ve heard alot of people say you leave your body every time you dream but I dont see how you could really know.

No,no,no, I meant believe in the aboriginal theory, not astral projection. I actually believe in that too&#33;

:cheers:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Oneiro

This is an interesting thread. I haven&#39;t been here that long, but it seems to me that there are two basic distinct schools of thought amongst the posters here, namely those who think that LD is all in the head, and those that aren&#39;t so sure.
So... how does a lucid dream like this one fit in?

The one where I lucid dreamt the result of a major horse race which came true several years later..

??
[/b]

---

I&#39;ve no clue how that would have happened, fate? Luck? Maybe the kind help of God or an angel (not sure why they&#39;d give you a dream like that, but you never know&#33;). Dreams like that are interesting though. Each time I hear about something like that I wonder even more about whether dreams really are just in our heads. Part of my mind doubts that we are, whilst part of my mind believes it&#39;s all in my head. Among the two distinct schools of thought, i&#39;d say i&#39;m in the middle, lol.

I had a dream a few days ago of it being really hot (I was at school, really feeling the heat of a summers day). In Australia right now it is Winter and has been cold for quite some time (rainy, that horrible kind of weather). But after that dream, the last few days have been quite warm and sunny. That kinda interested me, strange how things work? Maybe my body just noticed a slight change in temperature which was leading up to the sunny day? Or maybe a world somewhere else was preparing me for the slightly warmer weather?

My two cents: personally I&#39;m 99% sure that dreams, both lucid and not, happen in your head, even if you prefer to call them out-of-body experiences. However I don&#39;t think that this should be taken as an offense to some people - I don&#39;t think that this cheapens the experience in itself, if anything it&#39;s an amazing demonstration of the power of the human brain. Personally, I can&#39;t imagine consciousness leaving the brain in any way-

Its true that the mind can&#39;t think of what an unconscious mind is due to the fact that we&#39;re conscious and always will be so thats why its hard to think about death and who we&#39;re just nothing afterwards.
I still think that dreams are tide to not being in our bodys sometimes and in our bodys another time. It could be we experince some out and in our mind.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by STsung

Maybe one day science will find out that there are spirits living in our world and we just don&#39;t see them.
I personnaly think that one self can actually leave its physical body and go wandering about. But I think that it is pretty difficult to achieve "consciously".
I never had a dream where I left my physical body and went wandering like a spirit around the world.
But tell me why a person would want to leave his own body and watch it? To leave it there laying on the ground/bed helpless? [/b]

---

You see I don&#39;t see OBE&#39;s and APs as Actually happening: Just as EXPERIENCING these things happening. But that doesn&#39;t mean the &#39;&#39;Astral plane&#39;&#39; doesn&#39;t exist and experiences with it are any less real than &#39;&#39;reality&#39;&#39; What is Reality anyways?...(we just bumped into another Paradox :wink: ) It&#39;s more like an abstract place that, in a way, really IS there. But only individually and as an Experience, not some collective spiritworld to which we all go in our dreams.

So all these weird phenomena are just Products of our own minds. Don&#39;t get me wrong though by thinking I am a sceptic and close-minded to such ideas. In fact I have experienced such things many times. I&#39;m just not sure what it was. Of course I love speculating and philosophising about it , but really I would have no REAL idea wether that is the truth of what really happened.
My OBE-related experiences:
*I have defenitely felt as though my &#39;&#39;astral body&#39;&#39; had shifted slightly above and behind my physical body During Psilocybin Mushroom trips. My mind &#39;&#39;Being&#39;&#39; at wherever I focussed my attention on during these trips...

*I have experienced the &#39;&#39;terrifying kind&#39;&#39;&#39;of Sleep Paralysis where I wanted to wake up and couldn&#39;t move a muscle and felt as though I couldn&#39;t breathe. Often when Experiencing this I could actually see my own face, seen from above, on my pillow, lying paralysed while helplessly trying to awake, sit up and gasp for air.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by STsung

Sleepwalking, talking in dreams. that&#39;s easy to understand. But the concept of mind is difficult to grasp. What is our mind?
[/b]

---

The Mind is an abstract thing. The Brains seem to be the Bridge-Organ between The Physical/Concrete and the Mental/Abstract. God knows how it is possible for an organ flashing electric pulses and releasing psychoactive substances can &#39;&#39;generate&#39;&#39; such a Profoundly intricate, inconceivable thing as &#39;&#39;The Mind&#39;&#39;
The Mind is a great Mystery of which some parts have been uncovered and figured out by scientists and Self Exploring Lucid Dreamers yet it remains a grand paradox. Which is what makes it so wonderfull.

So Dreams, OBEs, APs, FAs and such phenomena are in my eyes Experiences. Nothing more than Experiences. But it doesn&#39;t make the &#39;&#39;Dreamworld&#39;&#39; or Spiritworld&#39;&#39; any less real to me. I still visit it every night :wink: