Carlos Casteneda The Art Of Dreaming

holy crap! i recently lent my copy of TAOD to a friend of mine. and he accomplished in one night, what i've been trying to do for months!

i'm amazed. this is the convo i ahd with him on MSN not two minutes ago.

ranma says:
hey dude
IcarusFlying says:
hey dude
IcarusFlying says:
man
Ranma says:
sup?
IcarusFlying says:
i read the first two chapers of that book
Ranma says:
ahh cool
IcarusFlying says:
and i had a dream
Ranma says:
i did the sphinx thingy
IcarusFlying says:
this week
Ranmasays:
holy shit!
IcarusFlying says:
and i found out i could see my hands !
Ranma says:
that's a good omen
IcarusFlying says:
i controlled my dream
IcarusFlying says:
then in the same night
Ranma! says:
a very good omen
IcarusFlying says:
i actually moved to another point
IcarusFlying says:
like in chapter two
Ranmasays:
WTF
Ranma
how did you accomplish so easily what i've been trying to dop for months?
Ranma says:
HOLY shit
Ranmasays:
i'm blown away
IcarusFlying says:
i don't know
IcarusFlying says:
i just thought about doing it every night before i went to bed
IcarusFlying says:
and kept a positive outlook
Ranma says:
cool. at this point TREAD carefully
Ranma says:
you'll read why. if you choose to believe it
IcarusFlying says:
lol yea
Ranmasays:
i did the sphinx!
IcarusFlying says:
well i don't know how many nights it'll repeat itself
Ranma says:
i didn't fall aslep but i was aware the whole time
Ranma says:
a week later and i'm wondering why i am so confident lately
Ranmasays:
it ahd a good affect on me
Ranma says:
what were the details of the dream?
Ranma says:
dude you are like the poster boy for carlos castanedas dream method
IcarusFlying says:
?!?
Ranma says:
what?
IcarusFlying says:
well all that i can remember is starting a dream and then remembering in the rdeam to look at my hands
IcarusFlying says:
so i did, and the more i did the more the image stayed still
IcarusFlying says:
i couldn't believe how vivid the dream was
Ranma says:
wow
IcarusFlying says:
it was like, since i could stay still in the dream everything began to become more clear
IcarusFlying says:
then i looked in the sky at a moving object
Ranma says:
and?
IcarusFlying says:
and saw a large shadowy object
IcarusFlying says:
so i was like dude, i imainged it being a mech in my mind
IcarusFlying says:
and looked up without looking at my hands
Ranma says:
and then you travelled? to where it was?
IcarusFlying says:
i was then transported to the object
IcarusFlying says:
and relized it was a large mechanical mech
IcarusFlying says:
and i observed it for a few mins
Ranma! says:
wow
IcarusFlying says:
in the sky
IcarusFlying says:
yea .. i remember there was more
IcarusFlying says:
but i forget that part
Ranma says:
cool
Ranma says:
fuck i'm so jealous! i've reached my hands but everytime i wake up
IcarusFlying says:
but before all of that i had something happen that i observered
IcarusFlying says:
lol
IcarusFlying says:
yea, i had this hot girl at the end of the dream i just rememberd


the link for anyone who's curious: http://www.amazon.ca/Art-Dreaming-Carlos-C...8&s=gateway

I've read that book a couple of times now. It is quite interesting and is full of ideas to try during your lucid dreams.

Yeah, that book is an interesting read. I'm not sure if it is entirely true, but it lists some interesting methods. For example the attraction flying.


The look at your hands induction method is not the best. I'd say it requires a lot of understanding and autosuggestion to successfully accomplish. Or just blind luck or natural affinity as in your friends case.

I've never been able to see energy as Castaneda described even though I've dedicated at least a dozen LDs to that.


I wouldnt rule out the possibility of him just messing with you :P

I just started reading it. It's interesting, because hearing about this book many years ago was how I was first introduced to the concept of lucid dreaming. I started reading the book, then stopped after realizing that it was the 10th book Castaneda had written, so I decided to read the earlier ones first. By the fourth book or so it had started to wear on me, and I looked into the story of Castaneda and read some fairly convincing debunking articles (of course, for those that believe him, there is the built in argument that his stories are occurring in another plane of reality and therefor logic). At any rate, I never got back to "The Art of Dreaming" until now.

Regardless of the accuracy of Castaneda's writings, he seems to have tapped into something. The ideas he proposed have been proposed by others who studied shamans and some of those ideas are being supported by new theories by quantum physicists.

I'm now approaching "The Art of Dreaming" as a way to keep the act of dreaming in my conscious mind.

I am really enjoying "The Art of Dreaming" at this point. I don't care to read any debunking articles about Carlos yet, it would ruin the excitement about the book. It is crazy to imagine everything that he is telling.

The thing with TAOD is not to debunk it until you have tried it all.

What gets me is nobody seems to have picked up on the fact that CC definitely does NOT believe that LD is "all in the head". He's firmly in the other camp, which should give rise to Dreamviews' resident sceptic neo-LDers and their pseudo-analyses.

There is a sort-of follow-up book to TAOD. It's called "Toltec Dreamer" by Graham Kane and basically details (amongst other stuff) the author's attempts to follow the CC paradigm, and what happened when he did. Very interesting stuff.

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Originally Posted by Follower;

Those 'debunking articles', aren't they from http://sustainedaction.org guys?
That site was created by a man who met CC from time to time and decided that he was a liar (because he died, as in the books he claimed to _maybe_ , just _maybe_ be able not to die:)). That man is also a homie btw... What other motives he could have for debunking? CC being straight? :)
I'm not sure how much trust you can put into this sort of site and those materials. ALL people who wrote those articles did it because CC died and they felt they were betrayed :)
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No, I haven't seen that site before. I can't remember which debunking article it was, this was a few years ago. I'm not advocating the debunking articles, like I said if you take everything Castaneda wrote at face value it's got it's own built in rebuttal to any kind of gap in logic that his critics and the debunkers might bring up. Like the fact that some of the plants he described finding are not native to the regions he describes them or the fact that people could not hike in the desert long distances in the summer as Castaneda describes. These kinds of observations belong in our current plain of perception... the "shared reality"... and if you really believe Castaneda, much of what he is describing does not belong there. I also recall criticisms about Don Juan's language, that he says things in a way that a native Spanish speaker would not say. But you could counter that Castaneda was writing his books in English for an English speaking audience, so he used interpretation to convey the context of what Don Juan said rather than simply transcribing and translating his actual words.

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Originally Posted by SoulSearcherX

I also recall criticisms about Don Juan's language, that he says things in a way that a native Spanish speaker would not say.[/b]

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He wasn't a native Spanish speaker. His birth language was Yaqui. There is another CC character who also spoke very strange Spanish: the "Death Defier", who, instead of saying "I saw.." would say "My eyes walked upon.." (Mis ojos se pasearon..), so Don Juan doesn't have a monopoly on strange Spanish.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Oneiro

He wasn't a native Spanish speaker. His birth language was Yaqui. There is another CC character who also spoke very strange Spanish: the "Death Defier", who, instead of saying "I saw.." would say "My eyes walked upon.." (Mis ojos se pasearon..), so Don Juan doesn't have a monopoly on strange Spanish.
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Well the criticism wasn't that his Spanish (or Spanish to English translation) was strange, it was that there were words and phrases that only made sense in English which wouldn't make sense in Spanish (or Yaqui, I would presume). But again, if you just suppose that Castaneda was more interested translating context and meaning rather than a literal translation, it takes care of that.

Carlos castaneda`s books are all very well written and first that i read "second ring of power"

basically hypnotized me.After that i had to read all his books and i thougt i know something

new.But years passed by and finally understood that C.C`s books actually contain nothing

practical nothing that may help me to achieve the conscious presence in dreamstate.The

books kinda put me in box and i couldnt get out.

That is one story, another begun when i reread Ouspensky`s "In Search of the Miraculous".

One might think that now i`m hypnotized by this book, but it cant be so cos this book stresses

the need of understanding while C.C.`s books you either believe or not believe.

So what i wanted say here is that C.C.`s books have in my opinion only one good point in it ,

possibility of conscious dreaming.

When I first joined this page, I made quite a splash by insisting that any decent human being should absolutely refuse to support or endorse that fraudulent lying scheming effeminine little fat man Carlos Castenada.

Why? Well, because I believe that when he first began publishing, he did so under the auspices of his Credentials as a Professor of Anthropology with the University of California. He was not advertising Fiction or Speculation. He was maintaining that he was telling the truth -- More than Truth, he was pretending to publish actual Field Studies.

But Peer Review caught up to him and found that it was all a huge imposition. An absolute Fraud.

And look! the Moderation of this Page STILL supports Lies and Corruptions!

And again I say that HOW CAN ONE BELIEVE ANYTHING ONE FINDS ON THIS PAGE WHEN THE VERY MODERATION DOES EVERYTHING IN ITS POWER TO SUPPORT LIES, FRAUDS AND MONEY MAKING SCHEMES.

Oh, let me show that I remember what Moderation will argue back.


"But Carlos Castenada tells such pretty lies... how can one not roll over and be seduced?"

Well, I would say that a little Manliness and Dignity might be in order and you would come to understand what the proper course would be.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Leo

When I first joined this page, I made quite a splash by insisting that any decent human being should absolutely refuse to support or endorse that fraudulent lying scheming effeminine little fat man Carlos Castenada.

Why? Well, because I believe that when he first began publishing, he did so under the auspices of his Credentials as a Professor of Anthropology with the University of California. He was not advertising Fiction or Speculation. He was maintaining that he was telling the truth -- More than Truth, he was pretending to publish actual Field Studies.

But Peer Review caught up to him and found that it was all a huge imposition. An absolute Fraud. [/b]

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Well.. I don't know where you get off here.. nobody has "proved" anything one way or another.. it's all speculation.. but you sure do seem to have a big downer on the man.

Which brings me to your assertion that it's all lies. So, what about the LD info in CC books? Did he make all that up as well? If you'd ever tried any of it you'd know immediately that the guy really knew his stuff.. he didn't invent anything about LD.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Oneiro

Well.. I don't know where you get off here.. nobody has "proved" anything one way or another.. it's all speculation.. but you sure do seem to have a big downer on the man.

Which brings me to your assertion that it's all lies. So, what about the LD info in CC books? Did he make all that up as well? If you'd ever tried any of it you'd know immediately that the guy really knew his stuff.. he didn't invent anything about LD.
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do you support Peer Reveiw of Scholarship or don't you?

If EVERYBODY who has ever set foot into the Sonaran Desert can insist with 100% certainty that Carlos Castanada wrote all of his books in comfort of his den or by the side of his swimming pool in San Diego, then what is this defense you are offering up.

Again, you are a great deal like the Moderation of this Page -- desparate to protect Lies and Deceptions. You do this Page no good at all, because the more you defend the strategy of Lying for Interest, the less anybody will believe anything that is said here.

Which brings us to the point. If you defend liars, then it is silly to listen to anything you say. You MUST by lying.

The problem here, Leo, is that you're attacking the people who are supporting Castaneda rather than Castaneda himself. You are likely right about Castaneda. But your hypothesis to declare that people who are supporting him are not "decent human beings" (your exact words!) is a bit like one of Descartes "proofs" that God exists: God is perfect. It is more perfect to exist than it is to not exist. Therefore God exists.

Like Descartes is assuming the existence of God to begin with, here you are assuming that everyone who reads Castaneda must be familiar with the Peer Review of Scholarship's findings on him. Instead of explaining the findings, you engage in a headlong attack on the members of this board.

So I ask, why should anyone take your declaration of what a decent human being would do seriously when a decent human being would explain something that should be explained before they attacked?

I don't care what is real in his books or not. I'll have to suspend judgement for now. because the things i have experienced through his books. such as dreams with Allies, Dreaming state and reaching my double, i just can't ignore that. but at the same time i don't believe that i will cheat death or physically transport myself to another realm lol.

I even like the books if i read them as a fairy tale. Quite entertaining. and the social commentary is great. the stuff about the warriors way, throwing out your inventory etc. is great stuff.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ranma187

I don't care what is real in his books or not. I'll have to suspend judgement for now. because the things i have experienced through his books. such as dreams with Allies, Dreaming state and reaching my double, i just can't ignore that. but at the same time i don't believe that i will cheat death or physically transport myself to another realm lol.

I even like the books if i read them as a fairy tale. Quite entertaining. and the social commentary is great. the stuff about the warriors way, throwing out your inventory etc. is great stuff.
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Hey ranma ,what to you mean by saying "dreams with allies" ?? :roll:

Allies are just another word for Inorganic beings, which are described in great detail in CC's TAOD. read my dreamjournal.