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Why is lucid dreaming not a commonly known topic? It is so amazing, and I think everyone would like to be able to manipulate their dreams. Do you think people are morally against it? Do you think that some are in denial that it exists? Or do you think some have too much trouble attaining lucidity for the first time? Do you have any evidence to support your claims?
I think ppl dont take the time keep a dream journal and when trying lucid dreaming, they just give up cuz its to frustrating to some.
I don't know exactly.. good question though.
Some people just don't find any intrest in it.
Or even if they do they're too lazy. Fools
i think that people would love to learn to control their dreams but to them dreams are just that, dreams. Nobody has ever told them that its not just in the movies, that it can really happen. they think they have no choice. And the few that do find it think it would be cool but give up after the first night of not having one.
Not only is it an uncommon topic, some people actually find it weird when they do hear about it. I've mentioned that I keep a dream journal and want to induce lucid dreams at work, and I've gotten looks like I must be insane. I actually feel sorry for these people who are so confined in their tiny little boxes of perception that they'd actually think lucid dreaming is weird. Of course, I'm into way weirder things than lucid dreaming so I'm amazed that people think that about lucid dreaming.
I think most of them are afraid.
Last year 48 people died from lucid dreams. They just suddenly burst into flames while having lucid dreams.
...Heh. Just messin'.
Some just aren't interested because they don't realise what it really is like. Some try a few times, and can't do it. Some deny its existence. Some are afraid of disrupting the sleep pattern (Ha).
As far as evidence for its existence, lucid dreaming has been scientifically proven.
They put 25 people, who claimed to have lucid dreams a lot, in a room. They told them to go to bed, and when they knew that they were in a dream, to move their eyes in a certain pattern. They did this every night for weeks. They monitored the subject's brain activity so that they could prove that the person was in fact asleep. They proved it over and over. They even studied ways to induce them, and found that flashing lights in the person's eyes, and warning them about it beforehand, increased the likelyhood of lucid dreams.
After the experiment, they took all of the test subjects out back and shot them with ... Uhh... AK47s!
Okay, Actually, I made that last part up, but it sure made the story sound cool, Heh.
-sloth
I just think most people have no clue what it is. I have asked some people irl and they went "lucid what?" I think that the people that HAVE heard it are skeptical that it actually exists. You have to be pretty open minded to believe it, and well... look around you, 90% of people are close minded.
People are too focused on "reality"--jobs, school, friends, love. The stuff you do rather than who you are, and how you fit into the grand scheme of things. They don't think about their dreams for more than thirty seconds after they wake; and they dismiss any "Huh, I knew that was a dream" moments by breakfast time. There are more "important" things to think about, and the dreams slip away.
What they don't understand is that their own minds are part of reality... that there are things to discover internally as well as externally. That knowing the abilities and limits of your own mind is just as important as knowing your way around your city. Dreams are your mind's way of rebooting, recharging, organizing. It's the machinery of mind at work. What could be more amazing to watch than that?
I'm an idealist. I think about things like philosophy, metaphysics, religion... I think that life is more than just money and popularity and beauty. But these days, it's not popular to admit that you're wondering about who you are and what you're supposed to do with your life... because everyone is supposed to have it all together.
Thing is, nobody has it all together, least of all me. And, since my mind is the interface between me and the world--really, I can't prove that the world exists outisde my own sensory input--then, knowing the internal me is the key to knowing the external world, and what I'm to do in it.
Like I said: Idealist. 23-year-old science student. Christian. Maybe hopeless romantic.
But still, people really should think more about dreams. I'm not exactly a Freudian, but they *are* quite a good way to know your own mind, conscious or not.
Lucid Dreaming is still of just recent invention, and so far people are still trying to get a clear idea of just what it is and what it is capable of, and the damage that can be done to one's own pyschological makeup, and so forth.Quote:
Originally Posted by anothrguitarist
Here, read some essays: http://www.sawka.com/spiritwatch/tableof.htm
If you read deeply, you will find that is what now promulgated and promised regarding Lucid Dreaming, is NOT what the Native Cultures that we borrowed Lucid Dreaming from, it is NOT what they were doing.
All of that Control Control Control. it may be so extensively interfering with normal dream process that it may spawn a generation of perverted lunatics. Normal Dreams may be Healthy and Corrective. But this Free For All of Lucid Dreaming where all you killers and Jerkoffs get to do anything you can imagine, well... what if on you 30th Birthdays you simply wake up one fine morning thinking its all a Dream and begin all your Killing and Raping for REAL
As you Materialists would say, we are perhaps just dealing with the MIND.
What if the Dream Control Emphasis on Lucid Dream is simply one broad and effective Gateway to Insanity?
Well, Lucid Dreaming and all its HYPE and Propaganda have been around since the 70's and not too much harm has been done.
But then, the Mind has developed ways of defending itself. it seems that people have some luck with Lucid Dreaming and then after awhile the Mind jumps in to defend itself. We have once Expert Lucid Dreamers begin to ask how to defeat endless chains of falseawakenings, and then there are those who are blocked from Dreaming altogether. Once stellar Lucid Dreamers going YEARS without being able to remember a single Dream.
So, no, LUCID Dreaming, as it is now Marketed, is far from the Panacea you think it would be.
Read those essays.
http://www.sawka.com/spiritwatch/tableof.htm
I often wonder this myself, Maybe theres not enough word of mouth :S Its not mentioned very often anywhere
I don't think a lot people have heard about it. None of the people i talked to (family and friends) knew what it was, altough some friends experience "dreams in whih they know they're dreaming" "all the time".
But even if they did know, I think I am the only one of my friends who would be willing to keep a DJ...My father on the other side, says that it's not true and that it's never been tested...My effort to exlpain the contrary was useless.... :shakehead2: My mom tells me that all my friends who tell me they can lucid dreaming are just lying :roll: (did I spell that right? I have problems with that verbe).
I remember when I told my friends about lucid dreaming.
They thought it was interesting and a little bit strange, but seemed to have no inkling to try it themselves.
It seemed rather odd to me, because what else is there to do when you're asleep?
In a sense, lucid dreaming is a spiritual endeavour, and true spiritual work takes discipline. Most people are not brought up with self-discipline; people require external rewards and punishments. People want other people to do their work for them; if you could sell lucid dreams, people would eat it right up. I think most people are turned off by the work it requires, even if that work is simply keeping a journal and paying attention to your own mind.
I don't like the focus on controlling dreams, either. I think it's more a matter of awareness than control. But I'll put that in another thread.
Because the vast majority of people never realize when they're dreaming... simple as that...Quote:
Originally Posted by anothrguitarist
And even if wasn't such an uncommon phenomenon, most people just don't talk about dreams. Hell, there's even a huge chunk of people who are convinced that they don't have dreams. :rolleyes:
Heh, mine too :\Quote:
Originally Posted by anothrguitarist
for the same reason psychedelic drugs don't appeal to a large segment of the population.
they are secure in their view of the world, and seek to reinforce it, rather than challenge it.
People don't care about lucid dreaming because they don't understand what your telling them when you say: "its when you realize your dreaming in a dream"
They instantly go to what they've experienced in dreaming, A weird state of mind where you have tunnel vision and will believe anything you hear. This brings them to the conclusion:
"Lucid dreaming is a blurry retarded dream where you can make things appear and stuff, its nothing like real life, I'll forget what I did in it 5 minutes after I wake up, and everything that I did will just be something I remember doing a long time ago."
Even if you tell them that its all as real as life they'll just think
a) your an idiot
b) you had a dream where your dream ego said "I'm dreaming" and started doing random stuff
We're raised to think of dreams as pointless things that some mentally challenged morons use as windows into what their magical "subconscious" mind is thinking. To 90% of the population dreams are stupid things that we only have every now and then, they have no affect on life, and thus no use for us in our everyday lives.
That, and the fact that its just way too good to be true :tongue:
Personally I think it's because first off people don't know enough about dreams and don't even remember their dreams to start off with. Awake -sleep- than get up again. There is nothing to them with sleep. Most people will tell you that they don't remember their dreams and wouldn't take the time to have a dream journal. Gernerally most people will remember dreams that scare them or wake them up instantly if that at all. So if they don't know much about dreams even remembering dreams why should they know about lucid dreaming. I think first to even know about lucid dreams you have to remember your dreams so you have to start with something.
I always knew I was dreaming in a dream but I never knew it was anything special that there was a word and a study to go with it. But I found out just about reading about dreamsone day and said "oh thats what it is."
Leo Volont: "Lucid Dreaming is still of just recent invention.."
I couldn't disagree more. LD is not an invention, it is a discovery. What people are doing today is the evolution of a practice that may be thousands of years old. Just check out Carlos Castaneda.. and if you want to counter with why don't I do the research myself, well I have. I would point you to do the same. The only thing that's "new" about it is the prefix "lucid" which I believe was first coined in the 1930s.
I think it's just because most people haven't heard of it. Telling someone (like a friend) about it can get mixed results- I've had people basically tell me I'm crazy or think I'm really weird. Now, when I want to tell a friend about it, I describe it as if I don't know it's an actual thing that people practice. I'll bring it up like, "What if this was a dream?" Or "What if you were dreaming and you knew you were dreaming- you could do anything, wouldn't that be weird?" People tend to "accept" it more as just a concept. One friend that I told about LDing this way has actually had several lucid dreams since then, and always tells me about them! So I guess it has a lot to do with how people tend to be wary of new things or ideas that aren't really accepted as common (yet.)
In the case of my friends and family, their opinions on lucid dreaming are varied:
a) It's childish and immature; it's stupid to dwell in a make believe world
b) It's wierd and unproven; some hippie crap that doesn't actually work
c) I'd like to believe in this, it seems very enlightening, and I've had several instances where I've become aware I'm dreaming; but everyone would think I'm wierd and uncool, so I better not.
It's a shame really; if people would just release their stereotypes and approach it with an open mind they would see how cool it actually is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyBob_001
This is an excellent point.
I'd like to add that some people think that it takes too much effort and reduces their quality of sleep making them more tired in the morning.
Btw, I believe that psychedelic drugs are applealing to quite a lot of people. Or at least there was an interest in psychedelics at some point in their life... The problem is that the best psychedelics are illegal making them pretty hard to get. The psychedelics still legal are obscure enough so most people dont know about them. :hijack: :P
That's usually what I would get too. Luckily though, I can actually talk to my dad (who happens to be a very close-minded and old-fashioned guy) about lucid dreams, because he has them almost every night without fail. Nobody ever taught him how, it's just how he's always dreamed. I respect him for that. (And I'm jealous D:)Quote:
Originally Posted by Pensive
But excluding him, I doubt anyone else I know would be very open to the idea of lucid dreaming. Some world we live in, huh? :\
I agree not many people are aware of LD's, but I also notice how many young people there are on this forum. So maybe it's becoming more well known?
It indeed is really weird how un-know it is. Hardly any one ever even Heard of it. Why doesn't discovery do an article about it? Or some magazine like Science? I thought that since Freud dreams had shed their hippy-image. (Ok freud was before the hippies, but still).
I think alot of people that are in their teens or younger think it's eighter uncool or weird. And the people that are older think it is a waste of time (; this kind of people often allso forgets how to have fun).
I guess the current society isn't willing/able to accept such a spiritual thing. Kind of silly for it is completely harmless.. and fun! <=/
most of the people i told didn't quite seem to understand.
i plan to try and dream share and bring one of them in.
the only person who seemed to understand was my mom, she talks about her dreams sometimes.
Neruo: "I guess the current society isn't willing/able to accept such a spiritual thing."
I don't buy into this "spiritual" thing at all. To me, LD is about practicalities, a most practical thing.
Quote:
They instantly go to what they've experienced in dreaming, A weird state of mind where you have tunnel vision and will believe anything you hear. This brings them to the conclusion:
"Lucid dreaming is a blurry retarded dream where you can make things appear and stuff, its nothing like real life, I'll forget what I did in it 5 minutes after I wake up, and everything that I did will just be something I remember doing a long time ago."[/b]
you know, when I started my pursuit for LD I was probably thinking like that without being aware of it, because the amount of felt reality when I entered my first LD (induced by WILD) was so shocking that I only cared about how to wake up again. It did not at all feel like the things that I had filed under "dream" in my memory.
I just today told a friend that I had managed to LD for the first time, because he was sort of skeptical that the whole thing existed at all and today he was skeptical still (as if I had sort of imagined that experience), but mainly he said that he wasn't sure wether he wanted to pursue that as it sounded to weird for him.
I think it has to do with how strong your desire for introspection is.
I do a bit of that in waking life already, taiji, reiki and meditations... things like that. LD is just another fascinating tool of introspection.
And as there are people out there who either don't care for introspection/reflexion/spiritual contemplation or those who are actually afraid of it, you get quite a few questioning looks.
But yea, above quote struck me as I have the feeling that this was exactly the case with me even though I did want to try and become lucid. It is an experience which is hard to describe in a way that others see how amazing it can really be.
I think its due to lack of word of mouth. People arn't taking the time to listen to us, they just have preset sterotypes of dreams. I've actually been spreading the word on other forums and with my friends. Spread the word! provide forum links, e-books, wiki links ect.
Lucid Dreaming seems rare because NO ONE I know can do it. And when I talk to people about it they disregard me as mad. :(
As I talk with people more about it, I am amused by the reactions. I don't care much if other people think I'm nuts. It always disappoints me, though, when they dismiss this as insignificant, as just a funny dream, or we're just lucky to have ld's. It's like anything that's worthwhile; you have to work a little and pay attention to things you might not otherwise pay attention to, but anyone can do it.
I will continue to talk with people, though, because I believe that even when people react with skepticism, they really want to believe us. So continuing to mention it, not in an attempt to convince our friends of anything, just sharing it because it is part of our lives, will bring some more people into the experience.
most people, which is most of people in general....don't believe it's possible...although they say 'I remember my dreams' when they wake up - so you are not unconscious in a sense - they say LDing is NOT possible when they remember their dreams upon awakening..which i find interesting....most people - one person in particular i tried to get to learn LDing thought it was 'crap' why should I..it doesn't work, etc...Another person told me that I really was dreaming if i could LD...
They haven't tasted the pudding yet, but the prove is in (eating) the pudding....
I think it is one of those things everyone think of: 'Hey that sounds cool', but say to their friends: 'Ha! What a silly thing, I am not going to waste my time to that'.
If people would have an Own freaking oppinion, more people would at least try it :)
I think people don't really eaven have a slightest idea what lucid draeming could be. And if you start explaning it to them they would probably think of it as some religious/drugs/hippi stuff, and would block you out and nod saying "that's nice".
Anytime you even mention the word the phrase "I had this dream...." peoples mind wanders and they stop listening. Unless they've experianced a lucid dream, they have no idea how realistic they can be. And even those who do understand how real it can be, just say "Its only a dream, so when you wake up, none of it happened" or something like that, and so they aren't interested.
Even when I try to explain to them in the most detail possible about Lucid Dreaming, they never listen.
I recently got my dad into it a bit by buying stephen laberge's book "Exploring the World of Lucid Dreaming" and he started to read it. I think if more people would read books like that, that go into the same kind of detail, they would appreciate more of what lucid dreaming is.
It is very frustrating when people disregard you or "switch off" when you are talking anout LDing. Some people think that I am some wacko that should go to a mental hospital when I talk about it. I recently found one or two open minded friends who listen and are interested in the subject. but NO ONE i know can LD. And i find this very frustrating
i'm not sure i understood leovolont's entry...
so in your opinion the phenomenon of Ld is just a sleep disorder? or a "first simptome of more serious problems"? (i am talking from the "naturals" point of view)
that's quite strange...
and really don't sound much different from old clerical instances on the harmful effects of masturbation!
but i think i misunderstood
Before I had probably one Dream a school year, two in the summer.
(sad isnt it...) The first time i heard of lucid dreaming (on a different forum which is not based on LDing) i was like "this sounds Awsome!!".
A little after joining I have on average one dream a school week (even if I only remember I had them and not remember THEM im still happy because im progressing) and a unrecorded amount in the summer(didnt get there yet).
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So before I knew about it I didnt even have the slightest clue it was even possible to recall more dreams, let alone be lucid in one!
My point, people dont know and most that heard of it mentioned blow it off as somthing impossible.
Some people I have told about LD say : "Oh that's wicked!" And then, they find out what they have to do to experience it and they go: "Nah, stuff that! I'd rather enjoy my sleep for what it's for..."
I think some people are a bit narrow when it comes to learning and experiencing new things, and it's so damn annoying when they don't bother understanding the possibilities or even trying it out!
I think he is saying that once one becomes an expert of lucid dreaming, he will start failing at it untill loosing the skill to remember dreaming and lucid dreaming completely.Quote:
Originally Posted by italianmonkey
But I think I misunderstood aswell :content:
Thanks for the link, there are some very interesting articles thereQuote:
Yeah if it was as easy as eating a cracker off a silver plater i think there would be many more LDers.
There are several reasons I can think of that explain why Lucid Dreaming is not a commonly know topic:
1. Such practices are seen as "strange" or "unnatural" by the rest of society
2. There is hardly any media coverage
3. Lucid dreaming is still not scientifically proven
4. People cannot cope with the commitment and motivation that is required
5. There's not many books that can easily be found on the subject
6. People don't share their dreams much nowadays
7. Haven't you noticed that most people give you funny looks when you talk about lucid dreams
8. The moral and phychological implications of lucid dreaming are not yet fully understood
I personally think that Lucid Dreaming will NEVER be a widely know phenemenon
I asked some friends why they wouldn't try it, they said either: "I don't have enough spare time", or "I don't dream". I tried to explain that it wouldn't take up time, and that they did dream, just they didn't recall it. But they wouldn't even begin to listen, they even argued against me.
this topic somehow reminds me of that 4400 series, where this one woman can create dreamworlds...
when talking to 2 friends we randomly came across the topic of lucid dreaming, one of them has bought an EEG, he does some dream research at home...
the otheronce has never heard of lucid dreaming, and that applies to lots of people i know :/
I think the reason that people disregard LDs so readily is the fact that they dont appreciate the brain. I'd say at least 20% of my waking day is devoted to just thinking about the brain and all its functions. it's incredible, it's so immersive. Thats the reason I started LDing, i want to experience my dreams on a whole other level. The brain is just to amazing to ignore, I cant believe people disregard its' abilities so quickly.It blows my mind that people just automatically reject the idea of "excercising" your brain at night. those 90% of closed-minded people dont even appreciate whats inside their heads, and it pisses me off.
Then again, i find solace in the fact that not many people know about lucid dreaming. when i ask someone if they know what lucid dreaming is, and they reply with a stark "no", I feel almost enlightened. I get the sense like im "above" them, from a nueral standpoint. When someone tells me theyve never heard of lucd dreaming, i feel sorry for them. i cant figure out why people would deprive themselves like that.
Why stop at the brain. Everything around me blows my mind. I mean, think about it. Matter is mostly (or just is??) empty space for example, from that you can say that there is no such thing as solid, and all is just a bunch of information. How can some people use their mind over matter, change the structure of water molecules, create complex organic structures out of basic elements, throw a needle through a window,... What if we are all "gods" (Not in a holy way... but! Who knows!?) that blocked out their powers, and by exploring the universe we are just redescovering ourselves, I say it's all possible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Deus
Back on topic... If people could just think about it and realize what Lucid dreaming really is, then there wouldn't be a problem. If we only think inside the box, who can say no to power over everything, and that's just thinking inside the box.
EXACTLY, just fact that our brain communicates with chemical and electrical signals is unbelievable. and to me, the most amazing part is its all natural. the brain is argueably the most complex strucure in the universe, yet it arouse naturally. our brain is the product of thousands of years of evolution. great stuff. i wish i found this site earlier.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonsay
People can't change the structure of water molecules, unless you're talking about the metabolism that goes on inside our bodies.Quote:
How can some people use their mind over matter, change the structure of water molecules, create complex organic structures out of basic elements,[/b]
On the original topic, I've been surprised to find that most times I've brought up LD recently, at least half the people present have been aware of it. They just haven't been taken by it enough to continue giving it attention.