Morality Again

People have gone back and forth about whether it's okay to kill and rape in their lucid dreams. I have a question for those of you who let loose violence in your dreams. When you're walking down the street in your waking life, do you imagine yourself killing people and raping the women who are passing you by?

I don't ask this to judge anyone. I'm just curious if it's an extension of how people's imaginations work all day, or if it's just a release people allow themselves while dreaming.

I don't think about it in reality. That's sick. I have to think about the person and the person's families who would be devastated, suicidal, or severely screwed up. I could never kill in real life. Even in war.

But in my dreams? I'm just shooting at my own thoughts, and it's fun. It's not fun to kill in real life, for the reasons I listed above. It IS fun in dreams, because you have the rush and excitement without the terrible devastation.

In my walking life, I don't pay attention to people much unless I know them.

Killing has never been a Desire of mine. I value life too much for that. I find it a true miracle and would concider myself a barbarian to even have the URGE to take it away. Who am I to do so? What makes one think they have the RIGHT to take away the light out of someone's eyes? Just think of how Much you value your own Life. Not very much if you have these homecidal tendencies.

And Rape? I would prefer dreaming making sweet love to a persian princess on a Royal bed with Satin sheets..etc Why sexually abuse a woman? it is only another act of Violence: got nothing to do with sexual desires or love.

No I wish to treat people as I wish them to treat me. And even if they don't: The most HARM I would do them would be mental: Confronting them with themselves and how pathetic, unrightious and Ignorant they really are.

No man. I'm too fond of Life and the rare love that is to be found in it to even THINK about destroying it. The best world would NOT be one where all my Enemies are Killed: The best world would be one where my Enemies would become my Friends.

Dreaming about killing someone in a Non-lucid dream would only be a Manifestation of hatred and frustratioon towards Someone or Something. A normal thing, because in life Society or certain Individuals just pin you down and it's not right.

If one were to become Lucid they would understand there is no need for killing and harming anyone. You're free of these Illusions, as that is what they are. feelings, impulses. No need to go chasing after them and be Lead by them.

No when I'm Lucid I fill my heart with love and Joy and Fly through beautifull skies. I Remember actually Shooting down a Police Helicopter that was chasing me in a Dream when I became Lucid. There wasn't any hatred involved. I was merely getting Rid of the Danger that was after me. Next time I'll fly by the cockpit and wave at the pilot with a Smile ;)

Hmm... my DCs are always willing :wink:

As for killing... I'm not sure if I've ever killed someone in a lucid dream. I've messed some people up pretty bad with my bare hands, but I don't know if any of them actually died. That wasn't really the point- it wasn't about going on a killing spree and drawing satisfaction from slaughtering people, it was about using my dream powers such as super strength. That is what's fun- whether or not they actually die is not even really on my mind at the time.

Anyway, I don't believe the concept of "morality" applies to dream content. After all, not only is no one hurt in the slightest by it (except perhaps the dreamer?), but no one else even knows about it unless the dreamer tells people about it. Since dream actions are essentially harmless to others, dream violence is about as "immoral" as punching yourself in the jaw. I do think it says a little something about you as a person, though.

I guess this thread doesn't totally apply to me since I'm not the kind to go crazy/violent in my lucids, but there's my 2 cents anyway. You're welcome :biggrin:

I do not rape. I don't think about rape. Not in waking life, not in dreams - lucid or non-lucid.

About killing.. No, I don't think about killing in waking life. In fact, I'm unsure whether I want to kill in LDs. Or torture. Maybe monsters, yes. But people, human beings? Unless they are like "teh uber ebil", I don't think so.

i see it more like a video game. who would be stupid enough to put rape into a video game? i wouldnt play that game. same with torture. But there is a ton of killing and i think of the killing in dreams as killing in games. the dc will just spawn somewhere else as i cause mass destruction. and if u fill bad about it apoligize before u wake up lol

It's an interesting topic, but i'm highly in favor of free will. In waking life i am and in dreams i am. The thing is i don't believe your own will should be imposed on other people's will, which generally excludes things like murder and rape. The difference in dreams is that there is no free will bar that of your own, so you can't impose your will upon anybody because there's nobody to impose it on. Killing people wouldn't do anything. The question is not whether it's moral or not, as there are no permanent consequences to any actions, nor is any harm actually done to anybody. The question is whether the dreamer can handle these actions or not. That's where short term damage might be done. If somebody tries it and it makes them feel guilty and sick, then that is a real life consequence, but it only directly affects the dreamer, and i wouldn't imagine it lasting for very long.

Personally, i'm not sure if i could ever do it. I've had a number of lucid dreams, but i've not had a lot of control. And when i have been lucid i've never so much as thought about it. I have tried to throw a cat over a balcony though! :D I wasn't going to let it fall though, as i intended to turn it into something and have it fly away. I couldn't pick it up anyway. I also once had sex with somebody against their will in a non lucid dream. I did feel horrible about that for a bit, and it wasn't even violent. I don't think i could consciously do something like that at all, dream or not. I don't think i've ever killed anybody in a dream though so i'm not sure about that. I don't have a problem with the idea at all though. In some ways it may be beneficial to a person's stress levels etc.

Well, I can't remember any dream where I rape anyone. I never think in rape someone dreaming or awake it's just something I can't understand, only thinking on it happening to your girlfriend, your sister or even your mother or daughter will make you to understand that is not good at all.

On the other hand, killing and that kind of violence has appeared sometimes in my dreams but in the way SKA says. It was due to a friend. He came to my town for a two weeks every year without "warning" us. He was phoning all the time, you had to be there for him all the day 'cause he was there to see us, you stopped your real life for him... you know, like a spot, all the day with you. Once, I dreamed I was in the cinema and he get in there too. He began to talk in the movie, in one moment I began to hit him and throwing him against the wall. He was asking me "What are you doing man?" and I hear how his neck got broken (but he still alive, like if anything was happening) and continued smacking him down for a while.

That's the most violent dream I have ever had. Of course, I didn't like it and I wouldn't dream it again (in LD of course) I'm a kind of Buddhist-man and I reject violence and rape, and those ideas get reflected in my dreams where violence and rape have no place... with exceptions like I said before, but that was because I didn't behave well since the beginning of the problem and the hatred it was generating had to escape somehow (I think) thing that should happen to lot of people (not all, there must be some psychotic out there :content: )

Quote:

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The question is not whether it's moral or not, as there are no permanent consequences to any actions, nor is any harm actually done to anybody. The question is whether the dreamer can handle these actions or not.[/b]

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I really like this phrasing. It's a subtle point, but there are consequences for all actions, because the development of who we are as individuals affects those around us. I have had a small number of dreams in my life which have affected the way I see the world; not radical shifts in my perspective, mostly they were dreams that deepened certain convictions.

Can the dreamer handle these actions or not? That is a great question. One person dreams of killing, and from that develops a better understanding of the act itself and all the complications surrounding it. (Most of us believe it is wrong to kill, and most of us are never put in a situation where we have that belief tested.) Another person dreams of killing, and wakes up thinking nothing more of it than they do of a video game.

I'm not one for banning violent video games and movies, and telling people not to kill in their dreams. However, I do believe that exposure to violence and experience with it, even in dreams, affects who we become as individuals. And who we are as individuals affects everyone around us. To paraphrase Ardent, the important question is what the person makes of their experiences, waking and dreaming.

You guys know my thoughts on this. Or you can know them if you do a forum search. I'm not getting into all of this again. Too depressing :(