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Hey, I got this email from some guy who had a link to this site advertising an ebook that claims to tell you everything you need to know to have LD's nearly every night with supplements. I'm wondering if anybody else got the same message, or even tried the product, or if it's at all plausible.
So far, I know b6 is probably one of the most popular supplements to induce LD's, but that's about all I know concerning that area.
Interesting - I gave the site a quick lookover. For the most part it seems legitimate. There is a clear information about the author, some legal aggreement to fill out should you purchase, various ways of contacting the author (even an address).
The outline of the program described on the left hand side sounds about right:
"increase memory" (recall),
"increase focus and attention"(reality checks),
"increase motivation, confidence, and creativity (sounds like MILD),
and finally the last step is pretty much using your LDs to help your ailments.
Pretty much the same steps we describe here on the site. Only thing missing is the supplement itself. But, if you think about it, if the supplement is all non-prescription it's likely that it contains nothing but the same vitamins and supplements mentioned here as well. Would be interesting to see exactly which particular ones he recommends.
A little too hyped for my liking:
"Did You Know That There Has Been A MAJOR ADVANCEMENT In LD & OBE Induction Techniques?"
-Shouting at us.
"Many people will experience an extremely high level lucid dream on the very first night!"
-Untestable claim promising the quick answer we all want. Oooh! Maybe I'll be one of the "many people"!
"No Other Method can come close to producing these kinds of results."
-Amazingly, they have the only good method available.
"Only $26.95 - Buy Now!"
-Just let us have your money, and everything will be peachy.
Can't wait to send them my money.
I am the author of this e-book.
My name is Thomas Yuschak and I have been studying lucid dreaming for many years. I used traditional methods for a long time, coupled with various Qigong exercises, and had developed the ability to have lucid dreams a couple times a month on a regular basis. About a year or so ago I was part of a discussion on the lucidity institute forum concerning a breakthrough in the supplement approach to inducing lucid dreams. For reasons that aren't totally clear, that topic was banned by the administrators. There is a good possibility that the topic was banned because of a patent application by Mr. LaBerge that covered one class of what I call lucid dream triggers. I will be happy to tell you the supplements discussed in the book but I sincerely warn you not to go out and try them until you understand why and how they work. My book doesn't just name the supplements but also gives the theory behind why they work and fully describes how to find the right dose for any individual while avoiding any negative side effects and/or desensitization/tolerance. The book also describes how to combine the supplements in different ways that are extremely, and I do mean extremely effective at inducing lucid dreams.
For the record, I have no ambitions of getting rich or stealing anybodies money. The book is valued at a fair price concerning the amount of time and effort that I put into it and because the quality of information is very high. There is also an unconditional money back guarantee if the buyer is not totally satisfied.
Here is the table of contents:
<div align="center">Part 1: Theoretical Background
CHAPTER 1 Opening Remarks
CHAPTER 2 Review of the Sleep Cycle
CHAPTER 3 Review of the REM Rebound Effect
CHAPTER 4 Predominate Dream Theories
CHAPTER 5 Neurotransmitters and Dreaming
Part 2: Individual Supplement Profiles
CHAPTER 6 Important Definitions
CHAPTER 7 Galantamine
CHAPTER 8 GPC (Glycerophosphocholine)
CHAPTER 9 Nicotine
CHAPTER 10 Piracetam
CHAPTER 11 Mucuna Pruriens
CHAPTER 12 Yohimbine
CHAPTER 13 5-HTP (5-hydroxytryptophan)
CHAPTER 14 Melatonin
Part 3: Achieving High Level Lucid Dreams
CHAPTER 15 Are You Ready For This?
CHAPTER 16 Understanding the Strategy
CHAPTER 17 Gaining Experience
CHAPTER 18 Counteracting Desensitization and Tolerance
CHAPTER 19 The Full Program
CHAPTER 20 Other Effective Combinations
Part 4: Improving Your Odds
CHAPTER 21 Daytime Practice
CHAPTER 22 Preparation and Transitioning
CHAPTER 23 Breaking Down the Wall
CHAPTER 24 Keeping an Up to Date Log
CHAPTER 25 Where Do I go From Here?
References
Index</div>
CAUTION - the doses described in the book are all sub-theraputic which means that they generally produce no negative side effects. However some of these supplements will produce negative side effects if large doses are taken. The book explains not only the maximum doses that one should consider but also a means of finding the right dose for a specific individual.
I apologize to anyone who got my email and felt as though they were getting spammed. It was not my intention. I thought that emailing some forum members would be the best way to let people know that such a book exists.
Concerning the hype on the website. Although it is written as a sales page, the information is true. This is a truly amazing breakthrough in induction techniques. It would not be correct to say otherwise.
Best dreams,
Thomas
What are the 'lucid dream triggers'? I only ask because it's not possible to patent a discovery/scientific theory/mathematical method etc. One requirement of patentability is that the thing to be patented be capable of industrial application ie you can make it. You can't make an abstract idea. You should tell LaBerge that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas
You probably know this already but I thought I'd say in case you didn't.
ok this is starting to reek a bit of spam
we'll see where this goes before I lock/move it
Only spam I see here is that avatar! --- :barf:
PS- hey, image you posted is being tripod blocked :(
The main triggers act to boost acetylcholine levels in the brain. These include Galantamine, GPC, and nicotine. A second class of triggers acts to boost norepineprhine in the brain. This would be Yohimbine. The triggers only work if taken under the right set of circumstances. The supporting supplements either suppress REM sleep prior to an attempt (5-htp and/or melatonin) or boost dopamine levels (Mucuna Pruriens).
Specifically Mr. LaBerge’s patent covered AChE inhibitors. These substances, of which Galantamine is one, prevent the break down of acetylcholine.
Here is some useful information contained in the patent:
and I quote:
"A method of enhancing lucid dreaming comprising administration to individuals the Acetylcholine Esterase inhibitor class of drugs. Use of therapeutic agents recently developed for Alzheimer"s Disease such as Donepizil (Aricept.RTM.), Rivastigmin (Exelon.RTM.), Galantamine (Reminyl.RTM., Nivalin.RTM.), and Huperzine results in minimal side-effects (e.g., insomnia and gastrointestinal symptoms) while significantly enhancing dreaming cognitive clarity, lucidity, self-reflection, recall, control, bizarreness, and visual vividness."
[0012] This invention relates to the field of Lucid Dreaming and the enhancement of dream recall and dream lucidity through memory enhancing drugs, including the class of substances that comprise Acetylcholine Esterase inhibitors (AChEls). Lucid dreaming involves dreaming while knowing that you are dreaming. AChE inhibitors (AchEl's) inhibit the normal metabolic inactivation of Acetylcholine (ACh) by inhibiting the enzyme, Acetylcholine Esterase (AChE), leading to accumulation of Ach. AchEl's are most commonly used to enhance memory, particularly in patients suffering from Alzheimer's disease. Ach is also well known to be important in REM and thus is suggested herein to enhance dreaming and lucidity. "
end quote.
The following is a summary of an experiment using Donepizil. Donepizil is also an AChE inhibitor but it available only by prescription.
and I quote:
"[0013] While investigating the efficacy of donepizil (Aricept.RTM.) as a means to enhance lucid dreaming and cognitive clarity during REM sleep in normal subjects, the following experiment was performed with the following results: A randomized, double blind, placebo-controlled crossover trial was performed with ten normal volunteers self-selected for high dream recall and interest in lucid dreaming (7 male, 3 female, age 22-55). Subjects collected dream content and other self-report measures on three nights, separated by a washout period of at least one week. At bedtime, they took capsules containing 0 (placebo), 5, or 10 mg of donepizil, with counter-balanced order of the three dosages. After each spontaneous awakening during the three nights, Ss evaluated dream content on a range of measures including bizarreness, complexity, and intensity, affect, cognitive clarity, lucidity, and control. They also estimated sleep quality, insomnia, and degree of any adverse effects.
[0014] RESULTS: Nine of the 10 Ss (90%) reported one or more lucid dreams on the experimental nights, with only one S reporting a lucid dream on a placebo night. Cognitive clarity, lucidity, recall, control, bizarreness, and visual vividness were all significantly elevated with donepizil compared to placebo. The effects were generally dose-related with 10 mg donepizil producing significantly higher levels of these variables than the 5 mg dose, which in turn produced significant elevations compared to placebo. Odds of lucid dreaming for the three conditions increased from 0.031 for placebo, to 0.429 for 5 mg donepizil, and 0.754 for 10 mg donepizil. "
end quote"
Happy dreaming.
Thomas
oh it was just a smiley making an "ew stinkyyyyy" faceQuote:
Originally Posted by Tornado
and the avatar says hoflake :kiss:
Mr. Yuschak, I am glad to see you here speaking for yourself.
Yes, concerning the hype on the website. Your writing in this post is much different than anything on your website. There are ways to write a sales page which communicate the strengths of a product or service without crossing over to sensationalism, but there's really no question, that page is all sensationalism. I'm not going to go into detail here, you are welcome to pm me if you care to hear any more specific thoughts on that matter. You might consider toning down the sensationalism if you truly believe you've got something meaningful to offer.Quote:
Concerning the hype on the website. Although it is written as a sales page, the information is true. This is a truly amazing breakthrough in induction techniques. It would not be correct to say otherwise.[/b]
Plus, it's never really been condoned in marketing to go post in forums and stuff (Plus it's against the law to email someone who hasn't given you consent to do so i.e. them knowingly giving you their email address, and is finable up to $100,000!). I know cause I used to study marketing, and was always warned that it's a bad idea. Plus, of course he's gonna post this stuff here of all places, where we always talk about lucid dreams. Believe me, after my days of studying this marketing stuff, I just simply don't believe any online salesman anymore. Nobody every really gets what they pay for.
if you want your product to be taken seriously you should take away that picture of the guy with lightning bolts coming out of his hands
Did LaBerge make his own pill combining all those drugs into a new pill that no one else has made before? If the patent application is just for the,Then it should fail, but I expect he knows what he's doing and has patented a new drug and the manufacturing process.Quote:
administration to individuals the Acetylcholine Esterase inhibitor class of drugs.[/b]
I love that picture. I have created many a thunderstorm in my LDs.
The lucidity Institute is not yet selling any pill but the patent leads one to believe that they soon will.
Thomas
Hello all,
I have decided to end the controversy once and for all. I am going to temporarily suspend the sale of my book until the beginning of 2007. In the meantime I am going to run a research study using 30 volunteers to try the method and report on their results. Over the next few days I am going to work out the details and then I will be going to a number of forums, including this one, to seek out the volunteers.
Thomas
I was fortunate enought to spend 10 days with LaBerge at one of his "dreamcamps" last year. We were given the opportunity to take part in one of his studies involving these inhibitors.Quote:
The lucidity Institute is not yet selling any pill but the patent leads one to believe that they soon will[/b]
The pills we used were available online already (I can PM you the brand if you want) and not a creation of his own, as far as I know. As stated in that copyright thinggy posted above, they are available as a supplement for treating Alzheimer's.
I also did not get the impression that he has any interest in developing any "gimmicks" for lucid dreaming. Last I heard he was looking for someone else to develop and market the NovaDreamer so that the institute could concentrate solely on research of lucid dreaming.
As for the experiment I took part in (which took 3 nights and included one night of a placebo) I found the supplement to make a difference and have continued to experiment with it on my own for sometime after. I haven't taken any more since I ran out. I've been pretty much going through a "dry spell" since.
I would only recommend the supplement to those who are in their 30's or older, since it is around that age when those levels of acetylcholine drop.
That's what I thought, but if that's true I don't think it's possible to own any intellectual property rights in it...Quote:
Originally posted by Tornado Joe
The pills we used were available online already (I can PM you the brand if you want) and not a creation of his own, as far as I know. As stated in that copyright thinggy posted above, they are available as a supplement for treating Alzheimer's.
I'd be interested to know what the brand is please, thanks.
Why all the interest in supplements for LD's? It seems from some of the more experienced LD'ers on the site that training your mind over a long period of time to pay attention to dreams, results in fairly regular LDs. So why make yourself dependent on supplements to have LDs? Do people want to spend the rest of their lives having to take supplements to have a lucid dream?
The AdvancedLD website is now up and running. If you have the time, check it out.
http://www.advancedld.com
There are some research studies that have started that you can sign up for in order to experience the power of some of these supplements first hand and a large portion of the ebook is available for free if you're interested. To get to the free sections follow the link below and scroll to the bottom of the page and click on the preview link.
http://www.advancedld.com/PowerofSupplements.html
Take Care,
Thomas
That website is down but I did just get down reading this research paper about supplement use and LDs, that this thomas guy wrote
(I know this thread is very old
http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache...ient=firefox-a
I know this thread is very old as well but I just finished reading Thomas's book and am floored. I tried visting the website and (as the user above me said) it is down. Thomas...if you still visit this site, would you mind telling me of an alternate website link you may have started or how we might go about contacting you/reading more of your work?
So its practice blah blah B6 blah blah?
No...you're ignorant. Within the 177 pages of his book, B6 is mentioned very rarely. I suggest you look into it. It's definitely worth the read.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurence
I'm about half way through his book. My LD experience hasn't been the best and am hoping, despite the book stating it's for experienced LD'ers that the disciplined use the supplements outlined in the dosages recommended and AFTER I speak with my physican may well help me break through.
I don't like when dead threads come back :lock:
I prefer to use mental power to induce my Lucids. I don't even like using B6.
I'm sure there is more information about supplements around here somewhere though.
You do know that your mind works on chemicals right? what are you going to do, suck all the chemicals out of your brain (well your brain/body is just one big mess of chemicals :boogie: ) so your doing it the "natural" way :PQuote:
Originally Posted by Caradon
Wherever and whoever this Thomas guy is...one thing for sure is that he didn't leave a trail of bread crumbs.
Hi,
The mans name is Thomas Yuschak and the name of his book is "Advanced Lucid Dreaming: The power of supplements". It's available at Amazon.com. Fascinating book in my opinion.
Yes, I've read it and ordered the supplements last night. I was just hoping there was some way I could get in contact with him and know what he's up to and why the sudden "withdrawal" from the LD boards. Anyway there's not much need for me to contact him personally anymore since I spoke with the Forewood writer in his book Scott Stride and he helped me out in the areas I had questions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Mark
I too just ordered the supplements. I hope they arrive by next weekend so I can experiment when I have time to sleep. Jeff, please post the results of your first attempt at using (I'm assuming) Galantamine/Choline as I'll be right behind you and would appreciate another interpretation of what to expect. Thanks!!
Sure thing! I'll post the detailed log with my information inserted into it that he added in the back of the book. I ordered all the supplements save for yohimbine. So far, my GPC, Mucuna Pruriens, and 5HTP have come. I think I might go out to the store and buy some B5 just to make sure I have enough achetyl in my body before I begin. And post yours as well, this should be one wild series of trips. :boogie:Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Mark
What ever you want to call it, I use my thoughts to get Lucid. I don't believe that my thoughts are created by chemicals. I don't know about you, but I'm capable of choosing what I think about.
And by the use of thought alone, I've been Lucid six nights out of the last nine. And the three nights I didn't, there were very good opportunities that I messed up.
I'm glad that you are able to lucid at will as you do. Not everyone is so gifted. While it might seem like second nature to you, there are those (like me) who find it difficult. The argument against using supplements is like saying you'd rather use a shovel to dig your pool rather than a backhoe just because you can. If the supplement is safe, natural, not psycho active and non addictive, what's the problem?
Oh don't get me wrong, I don't have a problem with other people doing it that way at all.
I was just saying, I prefer to do it on my own. And it's not so easy for me either. I work damn hard for every Lucid I get. In fact, I got a little lazy about it this spring, and it caused the entire summer to be a slow spell for me. I'm just now getting them going again.
I'm willing to bet though, In the long run doing it my way, consistently, will result in way more Lucids, than relying on the supplements to get there.
I think you're probably right, Caradon. It's not that I'm looking for the softer, easier way. I spent too many years of my life doing that and now well into middle age I understand the shortcuts didn't work. Ive been attempting to lucid for awhile, starting and stopping on what is now 3 different occasions. Did I quit too soon? Did I not focus enough? Was my will not firmly enough established? I don't know. My belief (and maybe it's naive) is that if I can trigger LD's using supplements, maybe I'll "break the seal" so to speak and have more success doing it without them. Time will tell.
Yeah, it's possible that all those things could be a contributing factor. It can be difficult, and frustrating, to get the first ones going. Never give up, persistance and patience are key factors.
Your right though, Maybe the supplements will give you some really cool Lucids, giving you the determination you need to induce more.
Good Luck with it. :)
hey Thomas, I just bought your book of lulu.com, and the first thing I saw when I started to read it was your warning that people under 18 shouldnt try this. I'm 16, do you really think being two years under 18 is unsafe?
Odds are you won't be getting a reply from Thomas, I'm sorry. :( But to answer your question...I would think that the author would feel morally/ethically wrong SHOULD something go wrong and you're underage (Not to mention if he didn't include the warning, legal repercussions would undoubtedly ensue). Say a 13 year old read his book but in his excitement and ignorance regarding supplements, naively popped 25 MG of Galantamine. If his body reacted in a weird way and he needed to be rushed to the hospital...his parents would find out and they would try to sue Thomas. So, to keep himself safe he added the warning. People 18 years and older are generally accepted to be of sound mind and of an adult age where they fully understand what they are getting into before doing something. I think the 18+ warning was very appropriate and I probably wouldn't suggest you doing it at such a young age either.Quote:
Originally Posted by BaKo
thanks for the reply. unfortunately id go crazy if i waited two more years to try this, so im gonna try to order the supplements and do it anyway :P plus, my doctor said im done growing so it shouldn't be that risky.
btw, if any of you guys wanna buy the book, go to lulu.com and get the downloadable one, its only 5$ and you can read it instantly :)
I have read the book and I'm with Jeff. You should hold off at least until you have had this specific conversation with your doctor.
As a scientist and veteran lucid dreamer who was part of LaBerge's original group that developed the Nova Dreamer, the conclusion I reached many years ago is that lucid dreaming is entirely dependent on the concentration of acetylcholine in the sleeping brain. (Acetylcholine is the neurotransmitter responsible for consciousness).
Unless enough acetylcholine is present, techniques such as MILD, FILD, HILD, WILD usually lead to frustration and disappointment -- which is why lucid dreaming is difficult for most people. It seems that "natural lucid dreamers" have a different metabolism than most people, with higher acetylcholine levels in their brains during sleep. That is why they should stop lecturing the rest of us about how "easy" it is. The bottom line is that even a Rolls Royce won't go anywhere if there isn't enough gas in the tank.
About 10 years ago I carried out a series of experiments similar to those described by Thomas Yuschak and achieved some success, although my work was not as advanced as his. I was regularly able to induce vivid dreams and increase the frequency of lucid dreams although I was never able to induce lucid dreams on demand.
Yuschak's book is important and should be read by anyone seriously interested in the subject.
How come you think acetylcholine is responsible for consciousness?Quote:
Originally Posted by ZenVortex
Neuroscience. Read the book. You will learn a lot.
Do you know any methods to naturally increase Acetylcholine?
pills dont help.
WOW! An "expert"! Such gravitas..Quote:
Originally Posted by ZenVortex
Oh good grief..Quote:
Originally Posted by ZenVortex
Where the hell on this God-forsaken site is anyone who really knows about LDing?
I'm still looking..
Bring on the flames..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oneiro
I think your getting a little worked up :roll:
This thread should just be locked. It is becoming an endless ranting, bickering chaos.
True, please keep discussion on this thread in line with the original topic of the OP, which is the book and the supplements mentioned and their legitimacy as lucid dream aids. Other discussion can be moved elsewhere.
If this thread continues to go off on these tangents such that replies are no longer about the site or the man's book (which you can obtain with all the information already available in the thread) and suggested supplements, I'll lock the thread. Please try to keep your discussion relevant to the OP's post.
In the meantime, if you are interested in lucid dream aids (independent from discussion relevant to this thread) or the ethics or the pros/cons to taking them, make a post in the dream aids section and discuss there. If you are interested in discussing what these things are and how they play a role in dreaming, make a post in the sleep and health forums. Obviously, inform yourself first as to what these things are that you are planning on ingesting and any side effects that they can have on your body from legitimate sources.
Advancedld.com is not up and hasn't been for about 6 months now.
ZenVortex, as a natural lucid dreamer as you would call it, I have only ever known fuel in the tank.
Though I know people that have gone from 'no fuel' to frequent 'natural' lucidity, just through changing underlying daily perspectives, listening to "lectures on how easy it is".
I have not read a single tutorial on here save one on Astral Projection, yet maintain a lucid state through dreams at will.
I know nothing of Neuroscience nor lucidity supplements, though if you believe you have found the reason for self-awareness and awareness of awareness please do explain instead of directing towards a book.
If you really have, then you have not only made some supplements highly creditable but also found the secret to life.
Thanks.
It would be nice to believe that neuroscience is the key to consciousness, but so far philosophers and neuroscientists have not found a definite answer. So many theories arise from the question of what causes awareness/perception/experience and neuroscience is a strong theory, stating that neurobiological brain processes are the cause of conscious processes. If you want good material on neuroscience and philosophy coming together to answer consciousness you should read up on Roger Penrose's and Stuart Hameroff's studies on the idea that human consciousness is the result of quantum effects in the microtubules, which are the structural components within cells.
Yes ZenVortex, I have read my books; many of which deal with neuroscience.
Althought you may be a scientist and could have a stronger background in neuroscience than I, at this current point in time, to my knowledge, there is no full-proof explanation for consciousness. However since you seem like you could defend the point I would really like to hear your theories behind it and some neuroscience material if you wouldn't mind sharing the names of the books. Thank you :)
And being a scientist, could you shed some light on the B6 theory to affecting lucid dreaming? It's always nice to have credible input :P
Another great book that deals with the neuroscience of consciousness, along with other things such as Lucid dreaming (for a few pages), psychadelic drugs, and consciousness expansion, check out "Zen and the Brain" by James AustinQuote:
Originally Posted by Apfelpfankuchen